Bile Acid Test- vet want to now do biopsy. I am so worried

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

what portions? like how much apple, potato or watermelon is too much? do you cook the green beans or feed them raw. would like a 1/4 inch piece of green bean be normal size to give as a treat?

I boil the green beans. I might give less than a tablespoon of something that is listed above as a treat. If you are talking about larger snacks I would just feed the dog food.

[Yorkieluv]

Sweet potatoes are HIGH oxalate.
Green beans and carrots are MODERATE oxalate.
Apples are also MODERATE oxalate.
When a dog has a history of calcium oxalate crystals or stones:
High Oxalate foods should be avoided altogether, so no sweet potatoes.
Moderate oxalate foods really should not be given, but if they are, then in moderation...very small amounts and not everyday, but I just wouldn't take the risk.
Watermelon is a great, high moisture treat that you could incorporate into her diet. It will help keep the stones from forming by keeping her diet with more moisture.
Here's an excellent link for you to read through...Keep in mind that not all the foods are okay for liver compromised dogs, but you get the idea...
The article also mentions that veggies should be boiled for lowest oxalate content.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter...late-uroliths/

[Ellie May]

What would be do without you, Yorkieluv?

So all of the foods I listed would be okay for a liver compromised dog, not for a dog with oxalate crystals...

Ingredients
Deboned Chicken, Ground Barley, Rice Bran (from brown rice), Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Rye Flour, Oatmeal, Oat Fiber, Whitefish, Tomatoes (natural source of Lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Ground Millet, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed.

Minerals
Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of zinc), Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of iron), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of copper), Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of manganese), Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite.

Vitamins
Beta Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Chicory Root Extract, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus.

Wellness® uses ethoxyquin-free protein sources.


This is Wellness Weight Management.
It does have a couple high oxalate ingredients in it then and one or two moderate.

[Yorkieluv]

Thanks, Crystal You are awesome!!

[Ellie May]

I have been looking at foods and it seems like there is no answer. There are very few, if any, foods out there that are okay for a liver compromised dog and one with oxalate crystals. There are plenty of individual foods but not one pet food that has the right ingredients. It looks like you would have to choose what condition you want the diet to be good for.

[Yorkieluv]

Royal Canin makes a prescription food specifically for dogs that produce calcium oxalate crystals/stones. For some reason, my computer is acing up so I couldn't pull up the ingredients to check if it would be safe for a liver compromised dog.
Crystal, if you can pull them up from the Royal Canin website, can you post them, please?

[Ellie May]

URINARY SO 13

For adult dogs to aid in the management of canine lower urinary tract disease.

ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet™ Canine URINARY SO™ (canned) and URINARY SO 13™ (dry) are complete and balanced diets for adult dogs formulated to aid in the management of canine lower urinary tract disease. These diets have been designed to ensure the production of urine that is undersaturated with respect to struvite and which have a level of calcium oxalate saturation at which crystals will not occur.

This has got to be it. I got it from their site but it wouldn't give the ingredients.
I googled it and Waltham's site has them posted:
http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%2.../SO13-dry.html
INGREDIENTS:
RICE, GROUND CORN, CHICKEN FAT, CHICKEN MEAL, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, NATURAL FLAVORS, DRIED EGG POWDER, SODIUM CHLORIDE, CELLULOSE POWDER, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, CALCIUM SULFATE, TAURINE*, VITAMINS [DL-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), BIOTIN, D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, NIACIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6), VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINEE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), FOLIC ACID], TRACE MINERALS [ZINC OXIDE, FERROUS SULFATE, COPPER SULFATE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, CALCIUM IODATE], PRESERVED WITH NATURAL MIXED TOCOPHEROLS, ROSEMARY EXTRACT, AND CITRIC ACID.

[Ellie May]

I guess the guaranteed analysis would help.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein, Min: 13.2%
Crude Fat, Min: 13.2%
Crude Fiber, Max: 4.5%
Moisture, Max: 10.5%

METABOLIZABLE ENERGY:
From Protein: 15.3%
From Fat: 34.4%
From Carbohydrate: 50.4%

Approximately 297 kcal per 8-oz cup; 398 kcal per 100 g; 75 g per 8-oz cup.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

The Ursodiol did not come with any instructions... just to give every 24 hrs. Do you know if this can be given on an empty stomach or with other meds?

I keep thinking things like: I wonder if the Soloxine has caused issues with the liver? Or maybe the Potassium Citrate Granuales?

OR maybe the Flovent???

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

Sweet potatoes are HIGH oxalate.
Green beans and carrots are MODERATE oxalate.
Apples are also MODERATE oxalate.
When a dog has a history of calcium oxalate crystals or stones:
High Oxalate foods should be avoided altogether, so no sweet potatoes.
Moderate oxalate foods really should not be given, but if they are, then in moderation...very small amounts and not everyday, but I just wouldn't take the risk.
Watermelon is a great, high moisture treat that you could incorporate into her diet. It will help keep the stones from forming by keeping her diet with more moisture.
Here's an excellent link for you to read through...Keep in mind that not all the foods are okay for liver compromised dogs, but you get the idea...
The article also mentions that veggies should be boiled for lowest oxalate content.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter...late-uroliths/

I think it might be time to talk to a nutritionist. I don't know what to do? My dogs are totally looking for treats and they love the sweet potato things i bought and now i am not going to give them that anymore. I have nothing in the house that they can have but 25 cans of wellness canned food that they cannot have.

I am just so stressed out. I am trying to give the Denamarin with reg wet dog food and it works if i use like 2 pcs of food but that is too much to give her the med with. This morning i gave it to her with one piece of food and I am having a hard time with it. i will have to get it to work somehow. Mind you i am half asleep at 4 am this morning to get up and give it to her on an empty stomach. but i will do it if that what i have to do.

The hepatosupport can be given any time of the day correct? I need to get some of that.

as far as treats- my husband wont let me give her watermelon bc he says she will get the runs from that. I read on some of the food msgs that were posted and we already fed both of the girls a food that contained corn and they did not do well on it at all. Corn is out. I am keeping them on the wellness for now but i was hoping to find something in a canned i can give them for their meds and treats. Couldn't find anything again today when i went to the pet store. Both of my girls did so horrible on the food that contained corn. Samie got a yeast infection, ear infections, allergic reaction in her digestive tract and Sadie got horrible skin allergies that are finally getting better since we took her off of it. it has taken a good 4 mos though to get that under control. I won't put them on a food that has corn ever again.

Why do i feel like every corner i turn i am at a dead end? I still can't access the yahoo liver group?

I am in such a horrible mood. It's not a good night for me to be on the computer. :-) really- i am going to give it a rest tonight. I want to just go sit and cry i am so overwhelmed. I will be back this w/end. thanks for all of the responses. I'm sorry i'm in such a bad mood. :-(

[TLC]

I might be able to help you baked a treat

It's really quite simple.
this is what you would need. Can they have these items?

Brown Rice Flour
Shredded Carrots
Unsweetened Apple Sauce
Safflower Oil
Water

You can make cookie cut outs - What do you think?

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by TLC

I might be able to help you baked a treat

It's really quite simple.
this is what you would need. Can they have these items?

Brown Rice Flour
Shredded Carrots
Unsweetened Apple Sauce
Safflower Oil
Water

You can make cookie cut outs - What do you think?

I will do it!!! :-) i don't see why they could not have those items? I am also wondering if samie could have turkey or lamb in like a super super super super small amount to give her pills with?

can you please send me the recipe? :-)))))

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by TLC

I might be able to help you baked a treat

It's really quite simple.
this is what you would need. Can they have these items?

Brown Rice Flour
Shredded Carrots
Unsweetened Apple Sauce
Safflower Oil
Water

You can make cookie cut outs - What do you think?

Apples and brown rice (so probably brown rice flour) are moderate oxalate, so they have to be limited. Carrots are high oxalate and are best avoided...
There are lists of high and low oxalate foods all over google.

I know about the corn thing. Ellie did horribly on it too.
It might be time for a nutritionist but I wouldn't sink too much money into it until you know for sure she has a liver problem...

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

OR maybe the Flovent???

Just about anything can make the bile acids go up. The only thing is the first time it was only 20 or 25 post meal. I don't think they would be close to normal one months and 79 the next if it was the med she had been on the whole time. Anything can happen though... Meds CAN make them go up.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

I will do it!!! :-) i don't see why they could not have those items? I am also wondering if samie could have turkey or lamb in like a super super super super small amount to give her pills with?

can you please send me the recipe? :-)))))

Turkey and lamb aren't great choices but you might get away with turkey (white meat and no skin). Lamb is red meat. I would not give it.