Bile Acid Test- vet want to now do biopsy. I am so worried

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ursodiol.html
I'm a little bit confused why the vet didn't try Denosyl first.
I'm not saying it is wrong though.
Ellie's specialist said we could try it and I declined because Denosyl seemed to really help her on its own.

The Ursodiol? I think she said that the Denamarin and the Denosyl had the same ingredients? I am not sure though. We still have questions for her. She is off on Wed's so i am planning to call her tomorrow again. I don't know the difference between the Ursodiol or the Denosyl. I think Ursodiol is a supplement and maybe Denosyl a medication? not sure on that.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ursodiol.html
I'm a little bit confused why the vet didn't try Denosyl first.
I'm not saying it is wrong though.
Ellie's specialist said we could try it and I declined because Denosyl seemed to really help her on its own.

thanks so much for sending the link- lots of info on there. Our house lately has been a doggie drugstore :-) it's nice to have all of the meds listed on one page. Wish we didn't have to use them though.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

And you think it works better than the Denamarin? The Denamarin is 60.00 for 30 days supply. But i don't care about spending the money and it not working. I will get the hepato support.

I am not sure - Those are the 2 items that were recommended by the liver support group on yahoo

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

The Ursodiol? I think she said that the Denamarin and the Denosyl had the same ingredients? I am not sure though. We still have questions for her. She is off on Wed's so i am planning to call her tomorrow again. I don't know the difference between the Ursodiol or the Denosyl. I think Ursodiol is a supplement and maybe Denosyl a medication? not sure on that.

the vet didn't even prescribe it at first. What happened is i told my husband to ask her about the Denosyl. i had read about it on line. And next thing i know she called in the Ursodiol to have it compounded at the pharmacy. Is the Ursodiol more powerful than the Denosyl? I guess I should spend some time reading the info that was sent to me huh LOL..... i am just so in the dark with this. I don't know if giving the Denamarin is best given after Samie eats 4 hours later or if I should set an alarm and get up to give it to her 2 hrs before i feed her? I will do it if i have to. :-)

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by TLC

Here is where I buy the stuff. No you don't need a Vet to buy it.

http://www.homevet.com/osc/product_i...cb47e841f2f3dd


http://www.homevet.com/osc/product_i...?products_id=9

Samie is 6.2 lbs. what do you think the correct dosage would be for her? WOW so much cheaper than 60.00 for the Denamarin too!

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

Samie is 6.2 lbs. what do you think the correct dosage would be for her? WOW so much cheaper than 60.00 for the Denamarin too!

What is this used for?
Vetri-DMG-metabolic enhancer 30ml

[Ellie May]

Denosyl is a supplement, I believe.
I think Ursodiol is a med? maybe?
They do different things...

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by TLC

I am not sure - Those are the 2 items that were recommended by the liver support group on yahoo

Which two? the Denamarin and the Desotyl?

[kalina82]

i'm sorry Samie is having some liver issues. I read through this thread and it seems like your vet is just throwing things out there. What i would do is go see the internal med specialist and see what he says about her liver values.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by kalina82

i'm sorry Samie is having some liver issues. I read through this thread and it seems like your vet is just throwing things out there. What i would do is go see the internal med specialist and see what he says about her liver values.

we are thinking thats what we want to do. it's just that a vet visit for samie is hard on her with her ct issues. He may want to do xrays of her liver also. i am worried how she will do there. But i also don't want her to be on liver med if she doesn't need. Do you know if Ursidiol is a med or a supplement? I have it but i have not given it to her until i know more about it.

she wanted to do the biopsy but even everyone on YT said it's too soon. But then she says yeah i know cost is always an issue for everyone (pertaining to the liver biopsy) then she says if we want to stop feeding the canned Wellness and continue the Denamarin and retest in another month. I don't want samie to be on med if she does not need it. I would prefer going to see the specialist w/o samie or just pay for a consult over the phone. The xrays may not show anything. Someone on here had xrays and the liver size seemed fine but found out today that her dog has a liver shunt after the biopsy.
I just can't seem to get a break with these two. Was really looking forward to a better year :-)

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

we are thinking thats what we want to do. it's just that a vet visit for samie is hard on her with her ct issues. He may want to do xrays of her liver also. i am worried how she will do there. But i also don't want her to be on liver med if she doesn't need. Do you know if Ursidiol is a med or a supplement? I have it but i have not given it to her until i know more about it.

she wanted to do the biopsy but even everyone on YT said it's too soon. But then she says yeah i know cost is always an issue for everyone (pertaining to the liver biopsy) then she says if we want to stop feeding the canned Wellness and continue the Denamarin and retest in another month. I don't want samie to be on med if she does not need it. I would prefer going to see the specialist w/o samie or just pay for a consult over the phone. The xrays may not show anything. Someone on here had xrays and the liver size seemed fine but found out today that her dog has a liver shunt after the biopsy.
I just can't seem to get a break with these two. Was really looking forward to a better year :-)

I understand about samie's CT problems, you don't want to stress her out. I wouldn't do x-rays. this is what i would do, knowing samie stresses easily and has CT. I would not give her any of the new meds yet because the vet really didn't give you any information about then. (I do not know anything about Ursidiol, i'm sorry.) I would schedule the consult as soon as poss to see the internal med vet. I would have them do an Ultrasound at that consult and if they deem necessary, they can do a U/S needle guided aspirate to get some liver cells (no anesthesia necessary but if Samie is too stressed they will be able to better deal with her issues then your regular vet). Also ask all your questions about the meds to the specialist. They deal with these things on a daily basis and are more knowledgeable then a regular DVM about these types of things.

as for the wellness i really don't know what to say about that. It could have absolutely nothing to do with the results. I feed wellness dry and canned too. i just don't know. I'd feel more comfortable if it were my dog with a more experienced vet.

[sadiesamie]

Originally Posted by kalina82

I understand about samie's CT problems, you don't want to stress her out. I wouldn't do x-rays. this is what i would do, knowing samie stresses easily and has CT. I would not give her any of the new meds yet because the vet really didn't give you any information about then. (I do not know anything about Ursidiol, i'm sorry.) I would schedule the consult as soon as poss to see the internal med vet. I would have them do an Ultrasound at that consult and if they deem necessary, they can do a U/S needle guided aspirate to get some liver cells (no anesthesia necessary but if Samie is too stressed they will be able to better deal with her issues then your regular vet). Also ask all your questions about the meds to the specialist. They deal with these things on a daily basis and are more knowledgeable then a regular DVM about these types of things.

as for the wellness i really don't know what to say about that. It could have absolutely nothing to do with the results. I feed wellness dry and canned too. i just don't know. I'd feel more comfortable if it were my dog with a more experienced vet.

they would have to take her immediately- she can't be at the vet long and just the thought of that makes me very nervous. I almost think thats what the vet wanted to do. bc she said samie would be lightly sedated for about 5 min and that was all. She said they would go in and take a small sample... that was 781.00 for that on top of another 98.00 or something for a collaguate test done 48 hrs before the biopsy deal she wanted to do. We can't afford any more tests and i know that sounds bad. we just don't have it right now. we are so cashed out - we went through all our savings- 5200.00 in 4 or 5 short months and like i said if she was in the 100's then we would have to find a way. but she isn't. I just want the specialist to tell me what he thinks based on samies numbers. i don't want to have to take her up there. The lady we spoke to at the specialist place said he may want to do xrays. But she turns blue at the vet... and they don't know what to expect with her as they have never seen her... maybe i will have the reg vet do the xrays and just send them with her file and we do a phone consult or just visit w/o samie. it just is too scary. when we went to see the specialist with Sadie- we spent 10 min in the waiting room and then another 20 min or so in the exam room. samie wont last that long- she gets far too excited. i don't know what to do.....

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

they would have to take her immediately- she can't be at the vet long and just the thought of that makes me very nervous. I almost think thats what the vet wanted to do. bc she said samie would be lightly sedated for about 5 min and that was all. She said they would go in and take a small sample... that was 781.00 for that on top of another 98.00 or something for a collaguate test done 48 hrs before the biopsy deal she wanted to do. We can't afford any more tests and i know that sounds bad. we just don't have it right now. we are so cashed out - we went through all our savings- 5200.00 in 4 or 5 short months and like i said if she was in the 100's then we would have to find a way. but she isn't. I just want the specialist to tell me what he thinks based on samies numbers. i don't want to have to take her up there. The lady we spoke to at the specialist place said he may want to do xrays. But she turns blue at the vet... and they don't know what to expect with her as they have never seen her... maybe i will have the reg vet do the xrays and just send them with her file and we do a phone consult or just visit w/o samie. it just is too scary. when we went to see the specialist with Sadie- we spent 10 min in the waiting room and then another 20 min or so in the exam room. samie wont last that long- she gets far too excited. i don't know what to do.....

its a tough thing to deal with i know. I'm not sure if the specialist will do a phone consult. Most won't say anything without seeing the patient but there is no harm is asking. the x-rays may not even show anything which is why i'd opt for doing the U/S first.

[Ladymom]

Please have your vet contact Dr. Sharon Center. I posted her contact information for you in my post #4. She is one of, if not the, leading authorities on liver disease in the country. She developed the bile acid test. We have had numerous members on the Maltese forum I belong to contact her for advice on how to proceed after high BAT results.

Dr. Center has applied to the AKC for a grant to look for genetic markers for liver shunts in certain breeds, including Yorkies. She has also spoken to the World Congress on the subject.

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...2675&O=Generic

Dr. Center recommends that a Protein C test be done after two high BAT's. Please don't waste your time and money on any other tests until you get a Protein C test.

[Yorkieluv]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

Which two? the Denamarin and the Desotyl?

Denamarin contains both denosyl and milk thistle, so Do Not give both Denamarin and Denosyl...
Personally, I prefer to use the Hepatosupport and the Vetri-DMG.
Hepatosupport contains milk thistle and vitamin B's...
Vetri-DMG comes in liquid form and is supposed to basically do the same thing as Denosyl (Sam-E)...
These two do Not need to be given on an empty stomach...
Denamarin, on the other hand, needs to be given on an empty stomach, so morning time, 1 hr before their first feeding is the best time that I can recommend.