Bile Acid Test results--Liver shunt?

[TLC]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

My Samie had heart guard on 12/9 and blood work done and the bile acid test done on 12/15. She also had blood work done on 12/11 b/c that was the day she fainted and we wanted to figure out what happened. Apparently she saw something with her liver count and wanted us to do the bile acid test. (It was later determined that my other dog and her got into it over their food and my other yorkie put her down on her back. Vet says her trachea collapsed and she fainted) We still decided to have some blood work done. I asked the vet and she said that the heart guard would not make her results different? do you think otherwise? It makes sense to me.

ya know, my Vet says the same thing, that 'nothing' effects the #s - but I don't buy it

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by sadiesamie

My Samie had heart guard on 12/9 and blood work done and the bile acid test done on 12/15. She also had blood work done on 12/11 b/c that was the day she fainted and we wanted to figure out what happened. Apparently she saw something with her liver count and wanted us to do the bile acid test. (It was later determined that my other dog and her got into it over their food and my other yorkie put her down on her back. Vet says her trachea collapsed and she fainted) We still decided to have some blood work done. I asked the vet and she said that the heart guard would not make her results different? do you think otherwise? It makes sense to me.

I don't usually go by what vets say for this kind of thing. The people on the Yahoo Liver Shunt Group say it can elevate the numbes, so I go with them on it. They are the ones who have been dealing with this personally. Most vets know very little about shunts, mvd... because it's not their specialty. I prefer to wait 6-14 days for something like heartworm med and a few weeks after vaccines.

[Madisen55]

update on riley! went to the new vet this morning...she wants to do an xray to determind the size of his liver---she found that the numbers were elevated but not indicative with a liver shunt so if the lover is reg. size he may just have mvd... friday morning he goes in for xray and neuturing .. at the time of the neuter she is also going to be doing a liver biopsy then sending to out to be analyzed... she gave me many more options and was alot more informative then my last vet and i am very happy!! she will be using isoflorane anesthsia and well as a mask for riley there was also something else she will be using to make him wake up better but i do not recall the name of it.. she seems pretty comfortable with doing the procedure and this way i do not have to go to the university which is a few hours away and get an ultrasound done! which would cost me about $500!!! the cost of the xray cryptorchid neuter, and liver biopsy with special anesthsia is all together $567!!!! my last vet quoted me JUST for the cryptorchid neuter $500 not inc. all the biopsy/xray!!! so all in all i am glad i got a second opinion! so let shope for some good news with his xray on friday morn.!!! thanks everyone

[Ellie May]

This vet sounds like a good one and it is probably exactly what I would do...

[Madisen55]

im so much more relieved right now with everything!!! everybody was a great help in helping me understand wha tis going on and i was able to bring in notes with me today so i knew what to ask her!!

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Madisen55

im so much more relieved right now with everything!!! everybody was a great help in helping me understand wha tis going on and i was able to bring in notes with me today so i knew what to ask her!!

TERRIFIC!!! I am sooooooooooo happy for you. This new Vet sounds AWESOME!

Now, if it turns out that he had MVD we have more information for you, as far as diet and supplements

But, of course we are hoping that he is 100% healthy

[Ladymom]

Sounds like you've found a great vet with a good plan. Keep us posted, okay?

[Madisen55]

i will update you on friday afternoon!!!

[Madisen55]

Hi everyone!! Riley had is operation today..the xray came back normal and is liver is normal size!! they went ahead with the neutering and liver biopsy today so i will find out next week what it is wrong exactly with his liver.. he seems to be doing ok right now..kinda sleepy and just laying around...although he does lift his head if he hears us in the kitchen hopefully he will be ok tomorow... the vet gave him a good pain killer shot today but im sure tomorow he will be sore any suggestions of what i should do ?? i cant baer seeing him so sore/tired...his eyes look like hes saying "why me" haha poor little guy!!

[BLEU BOY BARBER]

Maybe Im Panicy And Paranoid But We Were Sent To Doc Thinking Bleu Had Liver Shunt Turned Out It Was Aai

Atlantis Axial Subluxation... Please Pm Or Update Here The Exact Symptoms Up To Date What Riley Is Going Through ...

I Know People Will Get Tired Of Me Posting But Anyone Who Had Liver Shunt Issues Has The Same Symptoms That Turn Into Aai Because Of The Neurological Side ... Too Much Pressure On The Spinal Column... I Could Be Off In Left Field But Dont Rule Out If Your Test On The Liver Come Back Fine....

Hugs

[Madisen55]

riley didnt have any signs or symptoms of liver shunt.. only a high bile acid test after eating...im hoping his liver biopsy comes back clear!! ill keep what u said in mind incase it does!!! thanks!!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by BLEU BOY BARBER

Maybe Im Panicy And Paranoid But We Were Sent To Doc Thinking Bleu Had Liver Shunt Turned Out It Was Aai

Atlantis Axial Subluxation... Please Pm Or Update Here The Exact Symptoms Up To Date What Riley Is Going Through ...

I Know People Will Get Tired Of Me Posting But Anyone Who Had Liver Shunt Issues Has The Same Symptoms That Turn Into Aai Because Of The Neurological Side ... Too Much Pressure On The Spinal Column... I Could Be Off In Left Field But Dont Rule Out If Your Test On The Liver Come Back Fine....

Hugs

Sometimes liver shunt doesn't start with neuroligical symptoms (although that is very common). I was led to test Ellie's bile acids because of some urination problems, vaccine sensitivity, trouble gaining weight and excessive eating...I don't know if she has a shunt but it is something...

So yes, I agree with you. Neurological signs don't always mean shunt but there aren't always neurological symptoms with LS.

Original Poster: I'm glad everything went well. Maybe he just had a gallbladder contraction making the numbers go up falsely.

[Madisen55]

hey everyone just updating on rileys liver biopsy!! apperntly the cells came back saying he DOES have a shunt!! even though the liver seemed normal on xray the cells are abnormal microscopically.... the vet said he must be getting somewhat of an o.k blood supply to his liver or else he may not be alive today or came out of surgery o.k!...right now i cant afford another procedure (ulatrasound and possibly the surgery to correct this.. she told me it could be around $2000 or so..?? any ideas?) right now were just going to monitor him put him on low protein which i already started with science diet but were switching to pres. diet L/D and hes going to have milk thistle and denosyl i guess i have t opick it up tommorow not sure yet how to use all these supplements... were going to retest his bile acids in april if there the same or lower were jsut gunna keep monitoring him until i can save up enough money...but if there higher were gunna go right ahead into the next phase!..how long can a dog live with a liver shunt? hes going to be 2 yrs in july and no symptoms yet.. but i heard eventually it will take a huge toll on his life span /liver... is is true that sometimes even with surgery it may not totally correct the shunt/he may not be garunteed a long life??

[Yorkieluv]

Originally Posted by Madisen55

hey everyone just updating on rileys liver biopsy!! apperntly the cells came back saying he DOES have a shunt!! even though the liver seemed normal on xray the cells are abnormal microscopically.... the vet said he must be getting somewhat of an o.k blood supply to his liver or else he may not be alive today or came out of surgery o.k!...right now i cant afford another procedure (ulatrasound and possibly the surgery to correct this.. she told me it could be around $2000 or so..?? any ideas?) right now were just going to monitor him put him on low protein which i already started with science diet but were switching to pres. diet L/D and hes going to have milk thistle and denosyl i guess i have t opick it up tommorow not sure yet how to use all these supplements... were going to retest his bile acids in april if there the same or lower were jsut gunna keep monitoring him until i can save up enough money...but if there higher were gunna go right ahead into the next phase!..how long can a dog live with a liver shunt? hes going to be 2 yrs in july and no symptoms yet.. but i heard eventually it will take a huge toll on his life span /liver... is is true that sometimes even with surgery it may not totally correct the shunt/he may not be garunteed a long life??

I'm sorry to hear that your baby does have a liver condition

Did he say he had a single liver shunt or several microscopic liver shunts....If it's several microscopic liver shunt and no single liver shunt, then that's called hepatic microvascular dysplasia (MVD/HMD). This is NOT operable and has to be managed with diet/supplements. If it is a single extrahepatic shunt, then it requires surgery.

I don't see a need in spending money on an ultrasound if your vet already checked the liver size, unless he/she wants to check for bladder stones which can usually only be seen on ultrasound (the kind of stones/crystals that liver compromised dogs usually get do not usually show up on x-ray).
Have them do a urinalysis to check for crystals instead.

My yorkie was diagnosed when he was a pup, and we were told that he would not survive...I'm happy to say that he will be 4 yrs old in April!!
There is definitely hope!!
I think the oldest dog with MVD that I've heard lived to be 16? I think...
Liver issues are not a death sentence, by any means as long as you keep them on the proper protocol.

No red meat of any kind(beef, venison, etc.). Quality, low protein food is important.

If your baby hasn't exhibited any symptoms, count your blessings!! That's wonderful, and that makes it all the more important to make sure and follow the proper protocol so that he doesn't DEVELOP symptoms.

How did you find out that he had liver issues? Was he a picky eater or something like that?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

I'm sorry to hear that your baby does have a liver condition

Did he say he had a single liver shunt or several microscopic liver shunts....If it's several microscopic liver shunt and no single liver shunt, then that's called hepatic microvascular dysplasia (MVD/HMD). This is NOT operable and has to be managed with diet/supplements. If it is a single extrahepatic shunt, then it requires surgery.

I don't see a need in spending money on an ultrasound if your vet already checked the liver size, unless he/she wants to check for bladder stones which can usually only be seen on ultrasound (the kind of stones/crystals that liver compromised dogs usually get do not usually show up on x-ray).
Have them do a urinalysis to check for crystals instead.

My yorkie was diagnosed when he was a pup, and we were told that he would not survive...I'm happy to say that he will be 4 yrs old in April!!
There is definitely hope!!
I think the oldest dog with MVD that I've heard lived to be 16? I think...
Liver issues are not a death sentence, by any means as long as you keep them on the proper protocol.

No red meat of any kind(beef, venison, etc.). Quality, low protein food is important.

If your baby hasn't exhibited any symptoms, count your blessings!! That's wonderful, and that makes it all the more important to make sure and follow the proper protocol so that he doesn't DEVELOP symptoms.

How did you find out that he had liver issues? Was he a picky eater or something like that?

Yorkieluv, I thought only MVD (not a larger shunt) would show on biopsy. No?

Original Poster, I'm so sorry. Please keep us updated. You vet should explain how to use those supplements. I know Denosyl is given one hour before eating (usually in the am). If you have to give it with food use a VERY small piece but try to avoid that. It cannot be crushed or broken. Pills should be followed by a little bit of water.