Question - Out of Curiosity.....

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

If you have contracts that states such, that is great, I commend you for that! That IS how it should be. Imposing that is another story. How many law suits could you go through before you simply could not enforce that contract any longer due to the cost involved? Again, if my dog that I purchase and agree to care for by making the purchase, ends up in a shelter and I am the one that defaults on that contract, you are saying that you pay the fee? Doesn't make any sense. What if I purchase one of your dogs, and I lose contact with you over the years? I move, or I get sick and my relatives know nothing about a contract and your dog changes hands and eventually ends up in a shelter? You pay a fine? That's rediculous. Also, a microchip only identifies the current owner at the time of microchipping. (or does it give the life history of the dog). What if the dog changes hands (against the contract) and never has the number changed at a registery? How do you trace that? I know that rescues deal primarly with pure bred dogs of their chosen breed. What about the mutts? The dumped dogs. Our shelter has very few pure bred dogs. Who pays for their being there? How do you identify thier "breeder?" Obviously the person bringing it in is not going to own up to ownership.

Ok, so some of you are also imposing mandatory microchipping so their dogs can be traced. Honestly? Do you know what will happen to dogs if you make mandatory microchipping a law, and you also impose stiff fines if the microchipped dog ends up in a shelter? People will take them to the country, shoot them, and cut out that microchip so it cannot be traced to avoid paying any fees. Sounds drastic? Yes it does, but then again, people dump their dogs in the country to starve and fend for themselves anyways.

Honestly, I don't know what kind of breeders you deal with.....but, none of the breeders I know would not even think of placing their dogs with people they didn't trust. I know where everyone of my pups is, I see them regularly, I get e-mails from their owners regularly.....I groom and board my pups for free for the rest of their lives. And yes I do require microchipping....as a matter of fact, I'm learning how to administer them so, that I can do it before the pups ever leave my home. Sorry, I just can't phathom ever placing my pups in the type of homes you describe.....but, then I'm pretty picky on where I place my pups. As my vet says when he sends people to me.... here's who I recommend, but it'll probably be easier for you to find a cure for AIDS, then get a pup from her.

Remember a contract is only as good as the two people signing it and if I don't trust you to begin with, I'm not selling you a dog.....simple as that. Then I do have a $5,000 breech of contract clause in my contracts.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I will let Mary respond to her contracts...

All chips can be updated with the new name etc...mandatory to do. If I sell my dog to someone else and it ends up in shelter with only my name on...I pay the fine...It was my fault for not updating the information...just like cars. So you are saying that if I buy a ford mustang and get a speeding ticket, Ford should pay it since they made the car???

You are incorrect about rescues. There are breed only rescues and there are rescues that handle the mutts (your words) and every animal would have a chip that has the breeder/owner record on file.

Look, now of us have answers but clearly you are only shooting down idea's without thinking how we can change what is going on in this word.

Trust me, if breeders/owners were dumping over 5 MILLLION animals in the countryside to get out of the fines...they would be discovered ....and then could be charged with animal cruelty. 5 million didn't end up in a shelter at one shelter/rescue at one time. It happened one by one. If people know they are going to be hit with a fine, they will do what they can to avoid it. A dog is much easier to hide than a horse.

If you have watched any of the video's on puppymills and volume breeders you would understand why one system isn't perfect but we have no system right now.

I have watched I wholehartedly understand the problem. Not everyone who responds on the net is not informed.


I am not shooting down ideas. I am warning you.....that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You go imposing fines, laws, regulations, on the large scale breeder who can pay them, will run the reputable small scale breeder out of business. This is big government, and this is how our country is already, the big gets bigger, and the small gets choked out. Why would the dog world be any different.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

I have watched I wholehartedly understand the problem. Not everyone who responds on the net is not informed.


I am not shooting down ideas. I am warning you.....that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You go imposing fines, laws, regulations, on the large scale breeder who can pay them, will run the reputable small scale breeder out of business. This is big government, and this is how our country is already, the big gets bigger, and the small gets choked out. Why would the dog world be any different.

But, imposing this type of fine will not put the reputable breeders out of business. They know where their pups are and if by some chance one does end up in rescue, they most gladly pay the fine to get their pup back. I know I would.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

I have watched I wholehartedly understand the problem. Not everyone who responds on the net is not informed.


I am not shooting down ideas. I am warning you.....that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You go imposing fines, laws, regulations, on the large scale breeder who can pay them, will run the reputable small scale breeder out of business. This is big government, and this is how our country is already, the big gets bigger, and the small gets choked out. Why would the dog world be any different.

Gosh it seems like every suggestion is always met with, it won't hurt the puppy mills it will hurt the small breeder. The reputable breeders aren't breeding for profit anyway, they will continue to breed, and we pet lovers will continue to support them.

[livingdustmops]

I was referring to the title of cars...they have to be transferred...and yes the manufacturers spend a fortune in warranties and other things that a consumer should have to pay for (if I used your theory)...I know - I am retired from General Motors Corporation and I wish you had said corvette instead of mustang or a camero..

5 million in one year is a lot to hide...

Someone in Tucson tried to hide mass killings (easy to hide something in the desert for awhile) but someone called the police because they couldn't stomach what they knew.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Honestly, I don't know what kind of breeders you deal with.....but, none of the breeders I know would not even think of placing their dogs with people they didn't trust. I know where everyone of my pups is, I see them regularly, I get e-mails from their owners regularly.....I groom and board my pups for free for the rest of their lives. And yes I do require microchipping....as a matter of fact, I'm learning how to administer them so, that I can do it before the pups ever leave my home. Sorry, I just can't phathom ever placing my pups in the type of homes you describe.....but, then I'm pretty picky on where I place my pups. As my vet says when he sends people to me.... here's who I recommend, but it'll probably be easier for you to find a cure for AIDS, then get a pup from her.

Remember a contract is only as good as the two people signing it and if I don't trust you to begin with, I'm not selling you a dog.....simple as that. Then I do have a $5,000 breech of contract clause in my contracts.

I don't "deal" with any. And, I am NOT a breeder on any scale. But, I have been around in my lifetime and I have seen a lot of stuff that some of you probably couldn't even imagine. I honestly have seen it from a different perspective. Some very large scale, some very small.

Look, I am not here to argue because I know that the people here, responding to this thread are NOT the problem. You do things that way it should be done without necessary regulations, fees, fines, and anyone checking up on you. I know good an well where the problem is. Do I have the answers, of course not. I really do believe we ALL have a part in the responsibility. You have the mills (I refuse to call them breeders) putting out the puppies, but you also have so called registeries allowing it in that they create a registery for everything. Everyone's hand is in the pot!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

I don't "deal" with any. And, I am NOT a breeder on any scale. But, I have been around in my lifetime and I have seen a lot of stuff that some of you probably couldn't even imagine. I honestly have seen it from a different perspective. Some very large scale, some very small.

Look, I am not here to argue because I know that the people here, responding to this thread are NOT the problem. You do things that way it should be done without necessary regulations, fees, fines, and anyone checking up on you. I know good an well where the problem is. Do I have the answers, of course not. I really do believe we ALL have a part in the responsibility. You have the mills (I refuse to call them breeders) putting out the puppies, but you also have so called registeries allowing it in that they create a registery for everything. Everyone's hand is in the pot!

You know I'm really not about imposing laws, I'm against big government. I firmly believe the laws of licensing your dogs was put in place as government money maker. My dogs are in my backyard....it's my backyard and kept clean for my dogs to play in.....why should I have to pay a liscense fee when I already pay insurance and taxes on my house.
A bit off track but, we as breeders do more when we breed dogs than most people do before they decide to have a family.....

But, reputable breeders aren't afraid of resonable fees, the one of imposing a fee if your dog ends up in the shelter, is not far fetched.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You know I'm really not about imposing laws, I'm against big government. I firmly believe the laws of licensing your dogs was put in place as government money maker. My dogs are in my backyard....it's my backyard and kept clean for my dogs to play in.....why should I have to pay a liscense fee when I already pay insurance and taxes on my house.
A bit off track but, we as breeders do more when we breed dogs than most people do before they decide to have a family.....

But, reputable breeders aren't afraid of resonable fees, the one of imposing a fee if your dog ends up in the shelter, is not far fetched.

Thank you for that! That is what I am trying to say. The fines and regulations do sound like a good start, but it is so much deeper than that. Really, registeries are not going to want to lose out on their dropped numbers? Lets make them accountable for the number of dogs they allow to be registered. Now, you and I know that a mixed breed dog's papers are not worth nothing, but mills use that as a selling point. Lets limit the number of different breed a mill is allowed to have at any given time......

[livingdustmops]

I do have to say also, I am totally opposed to big government...Lordy I went to a private college that is so right winged (not religious) it isn't even funny...free enterprise the whole works...but...I can not stand the slaughter of millions of animals every year. We have to stop it. It isn't working with what is in place now. I do know once the car manufacturers had to start paying hugh fines..they changed many ways they do business. Is it perfect....no but a heck of a lot better now. Even with the bad recalls going on with Toyota...nothing compared to the 60's.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I do have to say also, I am totally opposed to big government...Lordy I went to a private college that is so right winged (not religious) it isn't even funny...free enterprise the whole works...but...I can not stand the slaughter of millions of animals every year. We have to stop it. It isn't working with what is in place now. I do know once the car manufacturers had to start paying hugh fines..they changed many ways they do business. Is it perfect....no but a heck of a lot better now. Even with the bad recalls going on with Toyota...nothing compared to the 60's.

I am not saying laws are not necessary because sometimes they are. You used the auto industry as an example of government policy. What about farmers and government buy outs? They buy out the small farmer with buy out incentives that are too good to be true, and the large farmer buys up their land and gets bigger and bigger. Or they buy out the small dairy farmer with government programs so the big dairy farm can get bigger and better prices on their milk, and because of this buy out your grocery prices go up. Don't quote my political correctness on this but it is essentially how it happens.

[Cha Cha]

LOL that was a little random, but my point is that depending on the kinds of regulations you want to impose on mills, it could potentially hit the small breeder the hardest because of sheer numbers involved. Registeries are going to support the mills because that is where their volume in terms of numbers comes from. Numbers is money!! I realize that many small breeders are not in it for the money but the betterment of the breed, but you can only lose money (I mean really lose money) for so long before it becomes not worthy of your money and less enjoyable. So, again, I am not here to argue with you fine ladies, just trying to make you understand what you are saying when you start to talk about imposing regulations and fines and how it could potentially come back to bite you in the badonkadonk!

ETA: And I am sorry I didn't reference the corvette instead of the Ford! What was I thinking we are not even Ford people! A corvette much better fits the Yorkie persona!

[MaddiesMommie]

Great thread V!
Should I decide to add another to my group I would rescue. I personally like the idea of getting a dog from people who can match me to the dog that will do best with me. I would choose a rescue I trust and understand that it may take time to find the right girl, no boys allowed, for me.

Unfortunatly, there are so many drop-offs in my area, I could eventually have any number of dogs. But I hope to add another Yorkie to my family....one day.

[orlnurse]

Originally Posted by red98vett

I've been here a long time and leaned alot just from being online about certain things - One thing is the big shelter problem. I knew it was bad but never knew it is as bad as it really is. And it is BAD.

My girls are older ....back when I looked for a yorkie I never even considered rescue - I didn't know I COULD consider it. People weren't mass breeding yorkies then.....

As a kid all my pets were shelters/strays but lately I've really thought about what I would do IF I were ever to get another dog. (I'm not) BUT - my decision would be.

I would get a rescue. I would never 'purchase' another pet.

I almost feel guilty for 'buying' my girls. I CHOOSE the yorkie breed and back then - they weren't in shelters like now - as with many other small breeds - they're now in shelters and maybe saved before a larger dog... but still there none the less .....and it really SUCKS.

There are so many dogs needing homes.....it's always been this way...the problem is just growing and growing with no end in site.

It's horrible to think of the thousands of great dogs killed everyday because so many freakin people are breeding due to the money they make.

What would you do ? IF faced with a decision to add another pet to your family - (yorkie or otherwise) ..............would you buy or SAVE ?

I responded to your post the other day about adopting. I said that I couldn't afford another dog, but since my response all I've done is obsess about getting a sister for Max. I've been looking on petfinder.com and other rescue websites, but nothing in my area. Mostly males. With Max's personality, I think he would welcome a sister easier than he would a brother. I checked out my budget and I probably could afford another one. Oh boy.....

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by orlnurse

I responded to your post the other day about adopting. I said that I couldn't afford another dog, but since my response all I've done is obsess about getting a sister for Max. I've been looking on petfinder.com and other rescue websites, but nothing in my area. Mostly males. With Max's personality, I think he would welcome a sister easier than he would a brother. I checked out my budget and I probably could afford another one. Oh boy.....

awww - good luck ! I hope you can find him a little sister. I totally love my 2- yorkies are my dream dog

my first post said I would never 'purchase' another pet and I wanted to clarify ....it only pertained to IF I ever added another pet to my life....

Good luck with finding a new yorkie -

and to everyone else - this whole thread has been really interesting Thanks !

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie

Great thread V!
Should I decide to add another to my group I would rescue. I personally like the idea of getting a dog from people who can match me to the dog that will do best with me. I would choose a rescue I trust and understand that it may take time to find the right girl, no boys allowed, for me.

Unfortunatly, there are so many drop-offs in my area, I could eventually have any number of dogs. But I hope to add another Yorkie to my family....one day.

Now THAT is well worded and such a good way to talk about rescue I see so many posts against it but to look at it as they are actually 'matching' dogs to YOU is the perfect way to describe it