Question - Out of Curiosity.....

[QuickSilver]

ladyjane, I think you misunderstood at least part of my post. I didn't say breeders should be less stringent.

Fosters are often not ideal for pets for a variety of reasons, the simplest being that some of the dogs may not like each other. Almost by definition, if you are rescuing, you are not "family planning" the way you would if you just have just a few dogs, and you're planning to stick with those for the next fifteen years +. And generally, I think dogs are happiest when they are in a permanent situation with a stable number of family members. So for me, while a dog can stay in permanent foster, I do not see that as a success story.

Obviously it can be a different story if you are picking the really hard luck cases that need major rehab work and are not likely to ever be adopted. There's a continuum between a high volume shelter and a permanent home. It sounds like you are a lot closer on the scale to a home.

I'm not saying this as a personal criticism in any way, which appears to be how you have taken it. I'm simply trying to explain my perspective on how a rescue should operate to do the most good. They don't all have to have the same goals. However, IMO, it's not helpful for people to get rejected over and over by rescues, and I was trying to explain part of that.

[QuickSilver]

I really do respect good breeders and people who do rescue work! I guess it's a side effect of being a computer programmer - I'm always looking for "bugs" and potential system improvements.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

ladyjane, I think you misunderstood at least part of my post. I didn't say breeders should be less stringent.

Fosters are often not ideal for pets for a variety of reasons, the simplest being that some of the dogs may not like each other. Almost by definition, if you are rescuing, you are not "family planning" the way you would if you just have just a few dogs, and you're planning to stick with those for the next fifteen years +. And generally, I think dogs are happiest when they are in a permanent situation with a stable number of family members. So for me, while a dog can stay in permanent foster, I do not see that as a success story.

Obviously it can be a different story if you are picking the really hard luck cases that need major rehab work and are not likely to ever be adopted. There's a continuum between a high volume shelter and a permanent home. It sounds like you are a lot closer on the scale to a home.

I'm not saying this as a personal criticism in any way, which appears to be how you have taken it. I'm simply trying to explain my perspective on how a rescue should operate to do the most good. They don't all have to have the same goals. However, IMO, it's not helpful for people to get rejected over and over by rescues, and I was trying to explain part of that.

Your quote was:

Originally Posted by quicksilver

guess for me, I do think that rescues should be less stringent than breeders.

Honestly if we were less stringent than breeders (not talking about reputable breeders who DO care where their pups go), we might as well just toss our rescues out to the first person coming along. I don't know if you have done any shelter walking lately, but if so, surely you have seen the unbelievable numbers of purebred rejects. Do you not think this is the fault of breeders pumping out too many and selling to anyone with a buck?

I am not taking anything personal at all. I make no apologies for how I rescue.

I am curious though.....have you volunteered and/or fostered for a rescue? You say you have a perspective about how rescues could operate to do the most good. You also mention that it is not helpful for people to get turned down ....... are you saying that we should feel sorry for people and let them have a pup even knowing that they have perhaps never vetted their dogs properly, they let their dogs run free, they don't provide heartworm preventatives? The list goes on and on. If you have done rescue, surely you do know about the vast numbers of irresponsible pet owners??

Trust me, I don't want to make a home for the rescues I take in. I have my personal pets. I want to FIND a home for each of my fosters...a good home where they will stay for the rest of their lives. Those I want to keep have already been adopted by me. There are many people who feel as you do and many who do not. Our group is composed of a group of the latter.

You and I obviously feel differently about how rescues should operate.

And......I believe that anyone who is turned down over and over by a rescue or rescues has something going on that they are not sharing.

[QuickSilver]

Okay, just going to say one more thing, lol.

I posted a while back because I was upset to see super-nasty reviews of the rescue I love on Yelp!, most of which were along the lines of, "I'm a really irresponsible person and they didn't give me a dog." At the same time, I've seen people go through the process trying to get a rescue dog, and truly, some rescues are ridiculous. Of course the priority has to be the dog's welfare, but at the same time, when there are so many unwanted dogs in the country, I feel like rescues should consider the kind of publicity they are putting out there. It is human nature to be hurt by rejection, and of course rescues are going to be rejecting people - so I think it's really important that it's done sensitively and if at all possible, in a way that doesn't leave people bitter about the experience.

I think sometimes there's a double message from rescues - please come consider us first, but we'll have no problem treating you like crap. But you really should rescue. Even though we reject most people because they could not possibly be good enough.

Also, even though this is a weird example, Temple Grandin is the woman who designs humane slaughter houses - she's an austistic woman who "thinks like a cow". She wrote something that really struck me, that most factories have hundreds and hundreds of checklist items that have to be passed, which she has... ten. Her grading system is super simple, and much more effective (at least according to her) than trying to control for every detail. I'm probably not explaining it well, but that's the gist.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Your quote was:

Honestly if we were less stringent than breeders (not talking about reputable breeders who DO care where their pups go), we might as well just toss our rescues out to the first person coming along. I don't know if you have done any shelter walking lately, but if so, surely you have seen the unbelievable numbers of purebred rejects. Do you not think this is the fault of breeders pumping out too many and selling to anyone with a buck?

I am not taking anything personal at all. I make no apologies for how I rescue.

I am curious though.....have you volunteered and/or fostered for a rescue? You say you have a perspective about how rescues could operate to do the most good. You also mention that it is not helpful for people to get turned down ....... are you saying that we should feel sorry for people and let them have a pup even knowing that they have perhaps never vetted their dogs properly, they let their dogs run free, they don't provide heartworm preventatives? The list goes on and on. If you have done rescue, surely you do know about the vast numbers of irresponsible pet owners??

Trust me, I don't want to make a home for the rescues I take in. I have my personal pets. I want to FIND a home for each of my fosters...a good home where they will stay for the rest of their lives. Those I want to keep have already been adopted by me. There are many people who feel as you do and many who do not. Our group is composed of a group of the latter.

You and I obviously feel differently about how rescues should operate.

And......I believe that anyone who is turned down over and over by a rescue or rescues has something going on that they are not sharing.

Lol, honestly, I don't think you can be reading my posts if you are asking those questions. Seriously, if you are interested, please re-read what I said, I think it's much more nuanced than you are giving me credit for, and yes, I volunteer at a rescue. I've mentioned it in almost every post I've made on this thread.

Okay, done.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Your quote was:


Lol, honestly, I don't think you can be reading my posts if you are asking those questions. Seriously, if you are interested, please re-read what I said, I think it's much more nuanced than you are giving me credit for, and yes, I volunteer at a rescue. I've mentioned it in almost every post I've made on this thread.

Okay, done.

Well lol, (something I dont usually see from programmers), I did read your posts. Hmmm must be something wrong with my eyes since I just did not see where you said that you are a rescuer. I am overdue for my eye exam.

But...yes...quite done.

[pancakepat]

I agree w/ladyjane in respect that adopting should be strict. When I adopted Tabitha (from shelter), one question on applic. was....What do I think the dog feels if I were to return him/her if it didn't work out for me? My answer was...."I think he/she would cry, he/she has feeling, their little hearts can break just like us humans". (rehoming is "very" hard on pets)

I think thats what alot of shelters/rescues are looking for. Your true hearts compassion. And that can't be learned or taught.
I don't have a fenced yard. I do have another breed dog.
The shelter did call my vet. My other dog had to meet Tabitha.
Two other rescue clubs (out of state) had excepted my applic. It was just a matter of me picking out which one I wanted. Had no problem finding yorkies, so I don't understand when someone says, "they can't find a yorkie other than from a breeder". Had one picked out from Indiana, I'm in Ks. Just happened to go to local shelter one Sunday (out of boredom), low & behold they had Tabitha. Her litter of 5 was there, too. I chose Tabitha knowing she would be hard to adopt. She's some where 6-8 yrs old and looked soooo sad. People would come & check out the pups but wouldn't even look at Tabby. I chose her over the male from Indiana. He was still a pup & would adopt out quickly. And he did.
As far as the Boston area, I looked it up & found alot of shelters/rescue in that area (w/yorkies) Course I don't know what area of Boston were talking about, nor the miles YT is willing to travel.

I can understand not wanting to adopt to a full time working person. You have to agree, little yorkies, especially the first year needs to be monitored closing as they can get sick really fast. Sometimes just a few hours can mean life or death. I read somewhere on internet a lady came home from work & found her 5.7 lb baby on kitchen floor.....dead.

Only comment I have on laws/fines is: If there has been at least 3 complaints to any one place, than any Shelter, Rescue, Law enforcement should be able to go in, check the place out, & shut them down on the spot. Then fine w/possible jail time for the owner. Pictures & vet check should be enough for the courts.
I believe in keeping it simple (kiss rule).

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Now there is a National Database for this in place.

Yes, it costs for the administration, managing and enforcing said regulations that aren't working today.

A system was put into place in a region in Canada that is working. Rescues are being returned to their owners, no kill shelters, shelter is pretty much empty. They came down and gave a presentation to Los Angeles officials and they opted not to use it.

Could you tell me where in Canada? Thank you so much.

[Lindsays Mama 2]

Unfortunately there are no yorkies for adoption in my area so I will buy my 2nd and final yorkie as I am about to turn 54, an og,lol.
Vicki

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lindsays Mama 2

Unfortunately there are no yorkies for adoption in my area so I will buy my 2nd and final yorkie as I am about to turn 54, an og,lol.
Vicki

Not sure where you are in MA, but there are yorkies in rescues in MA and surrounding states. Do a search on Petfinder!

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Your quote was:

Honestly if we were less stringent than breeders (not talking about reputable breeders who DO care where their pups go), we might as well just toss our rescues out to the first person coming along. I don't know if you have done any shelter walking lately, but if so, surely you have seen the unbelievable numbers of purebred rejects. Do you not think this is the fault of breeders pumping out too many and selling to anyone with a buck?

I am not taking anything personal at all. I make no apologies for how I rescue.

I am curious though....have you volunteered and/or fostered for a rescue? You say you have a perspective about how rescues could operate to do the most good. You also mention that it is not helpful for people to get turned down ....... are you saying that we should feel sorry for people and let them have a pup even knowing that they have perhaps never vetted their dogs properly, they let their dogs run free, they don't provide heartworm preventatives? The list goes on and on. If you have done rescue, surely you do know about the vast numbers of irresponsible pet owners??

Trust me, I don't want to make a home for the rescues I take in. I have my personal pets. I want to FIND a home for each of my fosters...a good home where they will stay for the rest of their lives. Those I want to keep have already been adopted by me. There are many people who feel as you do and many who do not. Our group is composed of a group of the latter.

You and I obviously feel differently about how rescues should operate.

And......I believe that anyone who is turned down over and over by a rescue or rescues has something going on that they are not sharing.

I have to agree with Quick Silver.... Ive been turned down 3x, the reasons stated is "no fenced in yard", "work full time" . Ok.... there is NOTHING else going on. My dogs are on proper preventative, see the vet, do not run free, are never out of my sight, fed top of the line foods, groomed regularly, socialized, friendly, neutered. Being turned down multiple times does not mean there is something wrong with YOU. Its not even nice to imply that. I think rescues DO need to be less stringent than breeders. Rescues place dogs... ideal situations in a VERY non-ideal world are extremely hard to find. Loving homes on the other hand with perfectly qualified people can be found much easier. So it's not IDEAL... but will the pup get the care and love it needs, from someone like me? Someone like QuickSilver? I COULD have provided a good loving stable home to 2 yorkies.

I'm not saying our views are right over yours. I'm just saying that if rescues did work on a case by case basis, i'd have 2 of them right now. Because anyone who walked into my home and spoke to me and saw my boys, would know they can trust a pup to my care for the long term.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by celstu1

I have to agree with Quick Silver.... Ive been turned down 3x, the reasons stated is "no fenced in yard", "work full time" . Ok.... there is NOTHING else going on. My dogs are on proper preventative, see the vet, do not run free, are never out of my sight, fed top of the line foods, groomed regularly, socialized, friendly, neutered. Being turned down multiple times does not mean there is something wrong with YOU. Its not even nice to imply that. I think rescues DO need to be less stringent than breeders. Rescues place dogs... ideal situations in a VERY non-ideal world are extremely hard to find. Loving homes on the other hand with perfectly qualified people can be found much easier. So it's not IDEAL... but will the pup get the care and love it needs, from someone like me? Someone like QuickSilver? I COULD have provided a good loving stable home to 2 yorkies.

I'm not saying our views are right over yours. I'm just saying that if rescues did work on a case by case basis, i'd have 2 of them right now. Because anyone who walked into my home and spoke to me and saw my boys, would know they can trust a pup to my care for the long term.

If you think that implications are not nice, then why are you implying that all rescues are as you see them?

I think that you and Quicksilver need to start your own rescue.

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by Lindsays Mama 2

Unfortunately there are no yorkies for adoption in my area so I will buy my 2nd and final yorkie as I am about to turn 54, an og,lol.
Vicki

Right now there are actually a couple of yorkies at a shelter in Derry, NH. Not sure where in MA you are.

Derry, NH: Adoptable Pets: Petfinder

Also to the other poster, 4 years ago when I bought my boys, there were NO yorkies or small dogs to be found in shelters and I was denied by the local Yorkie rescue.

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Honestly if we were less stringent than breeders (not talking about reputable breeders who DO care where their pups go), we might as well just toss our rescues out to the first person coming along.

Just one more thing.....
Thats a very black & white statement....

There is a middle ground of people... they are not IDEAL, but they are far from 'just tossing a dog out to anyone' ... those people fall into a gray area that rescues need to examine more closely. Or fit with alternative dogs when the one they applied for might not be a fit to HELP free up space in the rescue for MORE dogs... there is and sadly probably always will be another one behind that one waiting for a home.

Ok... thats it ....

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by celstu1

Just one more thing.....
Thats a very black & white statement....

There is a middle ground of people... they are not IDEAL, but they are far from 'just tossing a dog out to anyone' ... those people fall into a gray area that rescues need to examine more closely. Or fit with alternative dogs when the one they applied for might not be a fit to HELP free up space in the rescue for MORE dogs... there is and sadly probably always will be another one behind that one waiting for a home.

Ok... thats it ....

Yes ma'am that is "it". And, as I said, you might want to start your own rescue. Seems to me you need to "walk a mile".