OK...I understand what you mean, no disrespect meant.:) (Funny how a people can say the same thing so many ways.)
I think the point that the 'other half' was trying to make was that they didn't understand WHY some of the rules were made and had never been offered explanation and just wanted that. I think it's only natural that we ALL feel as members we have a right to an opinion and to voice it in our own way and are all valuable as members. So, those in doubt asked, it was discussed, and Admin gave their official response, which as I said, cleared up alot.

I just went to the thread For Sale Ads and was going to ask Admin but they locked the thread? if they thought it would be helpful if the Featured Breeders that are being classified as proffessionals should have a Questionaire that they answer like the one on I think its Shooters Listing. It asks how many years, how many litters per year, etc etc.
I think that would be wonderful for the people who are seeking to be listed as Featured, it would help the potential buyers.
Do any of you think that would be a good idea?

Deana
Prestigeous

Indeed! But you know just as well as I do, it wont stop that simply...ahhh only in a perfect world..right?!

This is what they call it on Shooters Listing.
I think this is a start.

Survey data:
How long have you been breeding Yorkies?
Average number of Yorkie litters per year:
Approximate percentage of litters that are Champion Sired?
Do you sell puppies or breeding stock to puppy mills, puppy wholesalers, or retailers?
Do you sell Pet Quality puppies with limited registration papers (not for breeding), or require a Spay Neuter Contract?
Do you offer a health certificate or veterinary approval?
Do you provide a written health guarantee for all puppies/dogs and if so, what is covered?
Does Bill of Sale identify puppy with litter number and registered name of Sire and Dam?
Do you have stipulations on your Bill of Sale as to the quality of the puppy sold, i.e., Show Prospect, Pet Quality only, or Show Quality?
At what age do you allow your puppies to leave your premises?
How many vaccinations will the puppy have before it leaves your premises? all
What is the average life span of Yorkies from your line?
Do you ship puppies and if so, under what circumstances?
Are the parents of your puppies within the size range of the stipulated Yorkshire Terrier Standard?
Are you a licensed and inspected kennel?
Do you assist in finding a new home for puppies sold if they should become unwanted for any reason?
What is the average age at which males and females are retired from your breeding program?
What do you do with your dogs after they are retired from your breeding program?

Deana
Prestigeous

I do too, but too, I think much of this dispute has been about the standards. And so many people (as this forum is filled with so many educated breeders) have so many different opinions. So I think thats where admin keeps it simple and to the point. For everything there can always be something better...at least I think. But in this situation it could continue and continue and continue, really where does everyone just kind of sit back and say okay. I get your opinion, I'll always have mine and move forward instead of beating it to a bloody pulp..

Sorry wasnt beating anything much less to a bloody pulp.
I too have an opinion like everyone else, I see you didn't move on, you are still posting on the same thing too?? LOL

Have a Great Day I am out for the day

Deana
Prestigeous

And, I am sorry you took me the wrong way, I wasn't directing it toward you. And I have just been reading along the way and finally thought I would just say a few things. No need to be on the defensive side. You have yourself a wonderful day:)

I don't think I read that thread but I hope Natalie will continue to post on YT. I'm sorry she was hurt by whatever was said. :( Best wishes to her and her pups.

I'm new to YT and new to Yorkies, but not new to public forums. Bashing occurs on all of them and it's a shame.

I'm convinced that the anonymity of the poster helps their bravery and willingness to be rude. Some of us no nothing about the breed (like me) and will visit this forum and other places to learn what we can. Some posters have years of experience (like Natalie) who, if encouraged to do so, can offer their insight.

I have a question about the standard so many posted about and accused Natalie of ignoring. I thought the official "standard" indicates a Yorkie should not weigh over 7 pounds, but doesn't address how small a Yorkie can be. Am I mistaken?

Is their an official YTCA Code of Ethics that condemns breeding pups below a certain weight?

Let's not assume the person with the biggest opinion or the most posts has the most Yorkie expertise. Perhaps, before you offer a strong opinion, you should indicate your experience and level of expertise so we know whether or notyou are smeone to take seriously.

I see your point and have wondered the same thing also. I think they should have a range of 4-7lbs instead of simply stating under 7 lbs.

I can verify that: last year when I was looking for puppy, I spoke to Natalie. She was wonderful. At the time, she had a puppy listed for a certain price on her website, after speaking to her for a while on the phone , she drastically lowered that price because she felt her puppy would be a good fit in my home. She asked me a lot of questions, got to know me and my family (as best you can over the phone) and answered any and all my questions. Never once, did I feel rushed, or did she try and get me off the phone. She sent me several pictures and I told her I would think about it. I didn't buy the puppy from her because a previous little boy I really wanted from another breeder suddenly became available. When I called Natalie, she was so sweet and totally understood and we proceeded to spend some more time on the phone.

I can tell you this, my experience with her was so great, that I have recommended her to several people looking for a Yorkie. And, if I am ever in the Market for another baby, the first call make is to Natalie.

Actually, yes there is:


http://www.ytca.org/faq.html#A

An Important Message About “Teacup” Yorkies

If you are interested in purchasing a tiny Yorkie, sometimes called a Teacup,
Micro Mini, Teenie, or any other name that means “extra small”, there are
several things you should consider. The YTCA’s Code of Ethics precludes the use of the words “teacup”, “tiny specialists”, doll faced, or similar terminology by its members, and for good reason. .

All breeders may occasionally have an unusually small Yorkie (hopefully healthy), though no responsible breeder breeds for this trait. Many breeders prefer a general weight range of 4-7 four pounds believing that size retains desired Toy qualities while maintaining optimum health. The Yorkie Standard states weight "must not exceed seven pounds" and as a prospective pet owner you should realize that even at 7 pounds, the Yorkie is still a small dog. (Females weighing less than 5 pounds are considered by most breeders to be unsuitable for breeding.) .

Special circumstances often come with extra tiny dogs. They are extremely
susceptible to both hereditary and non-hereditary health problems, including
birth defects that may go undetected for a long time. Other common
problems may include, but are not limited to, diarrhea, vomiting, along with
extra and expensive tests prior to routine teeth cleanings and surgeries.
Small ones are more likely to have poor reactions to anesthesia and die from
it. Tiny dogs are more easily injured by falls, being stepped on and being
attacked by other dogs. These health problems nearly always result in
large veterinary bills.
.
Please take this into consideration and make purchasing a healthy pet your top priority, not size. The “novelty” is certainly not worth the pain,heartbreak, or extra expense. Remember, all Yorkies are comparatively small. The most important thing is finding a healthy puppy that will grow into a healthy adult, especially since you looking at an 11 to 15 year commitment with your Yorkie.

MyFairLady - Thanks for the answer. Actually, I had read that myself. I'm curious why YTCA doesn't make the standard reflect their own Code of Ethics.

I am honestly not sure. I would suggest PMing Mardelin or Brooklynn as I know they are members of the YTCA and might know the answer :)

I would love to know that myself. I understand that there are certain risks in breeding tiny females but everyone alway yells about the "standard" when small yorkies are mentioned and according to YTCA they ARE within standard.

Isn't this just a little bit of a double standard?


It's ok to ask 'how much" someone paid for their dog but not "where or whom" they got their dog from? Personally, I find it rude to ask a stranger how much they paid for their dog. But someone who is advertising pups for sale and print their Pedigree on their site shouldn't have any problems answering the question where they got their breeding stock from, especially when it's a well known Kennel name.

And just for the record... my Mia is from PETLAND and my Max is from THIS TIME KENNELS. I don't have a problem saying that because I got my Max directly from the owner/breeder of This Time Kennels.


Oh, and I'd like to add that I paid more for Mia from Petland than I did for Max from This Time Kennels.

I understand and agree with you. When people ask specific questions like that, it give me the impression that maybe there is more to the story than one side is letting on and there may be a good reason behind why the question was asked...that has happened MANY times here before. I don't think anyone here can say they never knew of some of the sneaky, underhanded events that happen in the world of breeding and lines from time to time-- nothing shocks me anymore.

However, and this is just my personal view on the situation, it is clear that there are many people with very strong opinions regarding this specific situation and I feel certain that pushing any suspicions and arguing about it is only going to be counter productive at this point. I have my own personal opinion and can only hope that everyone can use their own judgement to examine things in depth and form their own opinions as well. Clearly, both sides of this scenario are never going to debate this out and come to a common agreement. Ultimately, what you think and believe individually is all that counts anyway, right?

Thanks Misty. My question was answered when she didn't answer it. I was just putting it out there. I figured most, like you, would "get it".

I don't post on these type of threads too often but when I do, it's because I feel strongly about it. I read other people's opinions all day. Most of the time I don't say anything because it's a "take it or leave it" or "been said" type of thing for me. This one, however, hit close to home. I felt compelled to say something. I didn't bash or harass her, I simply asked her a question - on a different thread (ytca) than what this thread was originally about (for sale).

The reason for this last post was for another member. She selected my comment out of all the others to single out. I just found it humorous how asking someone how much your dog cost - is ok... but where did you get your dog - isn't. Mine was about ethics - the other about being nosey. Mine was about information already put out there - in writing - soliciting a sale. The other was someone in a park minding their own business - not soliciting a sale. She commented on both. Just bringing it out to the forefront.


And the reason for bringing it up in this forum is for the newbies!
(mentioned at the very beginnng of this thread)

LOL.......ok you lost me on this one. Sorry you had to spend so much of your precious time trying to dig something up on me. Must have taken you some time but I am sure it was well worth it to you.:rolleyes: LOL.........Nice try

Sorry you're lost. I wasn't try to dig up anything on you. Just making a point. It didn't take any time at all. :rolleyes: LOL.........Nice try yourself! :D

You all are ridiculous, arguing about stuff like this.

If you are talking to me, you are right and:blush08: I apologize.