:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I did post there and I shouldn't have, I should have just bit my tongue.
But after going thru what I did with Lil Bit just the Sunday before.
I just couldn't not say anything, I know this lil one would have been lost had I not known what to do. So I was weak on the topic and thought of new owners going thru this same situation because someone actually intended for the pups to be very small. It is devistating to see a beautiful pup go down, all because of their size and their body isn't producing the glucose it should due to the small size. It is one of the worst things to see and not so nice to breed for that size knowing that.
If any of you have ever been on the other end of caring for a little one fighting for their life, you would have a clear picture of why people get upset when a breeder is intentionally breeding for tinies.
I didn't feel I attacked her in any way.
I did post there and according to the rules I should not have.


Deana
Prestigeous Yorkies

Same here Deanna. I know that although mild in comparison to some posts, I posted against the rules in that thread to and should not have and for my part in that I apologize. :(

Having a tiny (who by all indications should NOT have been a tiny) I can sympathize with you and understand why it would obviously concern you that anyone would purposely try to breed for them.

I respect Debbie (tigger) and her opinion on many issues and if she says that there is good in Natalie, then I respect that.

I think that the problem that arose there is that on Natalie's site, there are several things that so many at YT consider red flags...things that so many warn others against everyday--it only seemed natural that they would be brought up, questioned, and she would be asked for explanation.

I realize that maybe her for sale thread was not the proper place and it was not the right time for those questions, so I ask you, how SHOULD it have been done? I doubt a thread in the breeder review section started just to discuss her practice would have gone over well...:( Where should she have been asked what many apparently wanted to know? Maybe the same problem of hijacking someone's thread coudl be avoided in the furture...I hope.

Bottom line, this seems to have caused alot of turmoil and hard feelings here on YT and I don't think ANYONE can argue that it's an really bad feeling.

Oh, I'd be willing to bet you it was this thread.:cool:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=109904

Don't you hate it when people assume the worst. Sorry this one didn't have the outcome that you all were hoping for.:rolleyes: Sometimes people ask questions to get more info so they can give more educated answers...mind blowing, I know.;)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think that would be me you're referring to. And, yes, I am curious how it was that she obtained one of her dogs because, as I stated, I know the breeder of one of them and I don't believe that she would ever let one of her dogs go to someone that was going to breed tinies! This breeder has been breeding for over 35 years and has over 100 champions. Do you really think she would stud or sell a dog to someone to breed less than standard??? Catch my drift?
Here's my post...

Oops... sorry I didn't realize it would post like that. :eek:

I would like to ask the OP one question though. Could you please tell me how you were able to get one of CH This Time Major League at Dundry's pups? I know this breeder and can't imagine her allowing anyone to use one of her dogs to breed for NON-standard Yorkshire Terrriers! I'd really like to know. And the way you put down show breeders I'm curious as to why you'd want so many of their dogs in your pedigree? Just wondering... :rolleyes:

There are a lot of ethical breeders who do not breed tinies and, though they know their special needs, are not accustomed to caring for them. So if they do have a tiny one, the trial and error and extra work involved leads them to believe that every one of these tiny babies is simply fighting for their lives. This is not really the case, but is understandably the perception.

Those dedicated breeders who routinely breed tinies have become well-versed in their special needs, and so head off problems before they even come up. Those not accustomed to tinies often wait too late to provide help, thus allowing problems to develop that would have never developed in the hands of a breeder experienced with tinies.

This is not to say that everyone who breeds tinies is ethical and dedicated. I realize that there are a LOT of people out there who do not give them the care they need. And I personally would never breed tiny pups--I know that I do not have the expertise and/or time to devote to them. However, I also don't assume that EVERYONE who breeds tiny pups is doing it just for the money and not caring for the babies. (In fact, if you factor in the extra time needed for their care, the price they are asking is not entirely out-of-line. Although again, I personally would never pay this)

The only way to know if someone is dedicated enough to provide the care their pups need is to know them personally....not simply the fact that they breed tinies.

I am so sorry that your friend got her feelings hurt....I am sure she is a very nice and sweet person...and her puppies are beautiful. I also posted in that thread against the rules too (I think it was against the rules..:rolleyes: but 2 of my posts was not deleted...:confused: ).

I am sorry Natalie if I said anything to hurt your feelings or was rude to you...:(

TY Bama for respecting me I really appreciate your saying so. It wasn't that I was there to defend her breeding practices or put fault in them. What upset me was the rules were being broken and she was attacked against the rules in what was suppossed to be JUST a for sale thread!

Now I know alot of people think she is in it for the money and I can assure you that I know for a fact that she isn't. I have first hand knowledge that she has gone down drastically in her prices to find 2 of her babies the proper homes today and has done this in the past as well!!

All I ask is before people pass judgement on someone, I think they need to make sure what they are saying is FACTUAL and not just assumptions!!

To Prestigeous YT, I just read your post above.....I had started mine earlier...Although my opinion stands, just wanted to say my post was not in response to yours. I was addressing thoughts I had read on previous threads.

I feel really bad for Natalie, I don't know her at all, but she shouldn't have been bashed the way she was, the problem is everyone that always is in on the bashing in the breeding threads showed up...no big surprize but this it what makes me upset, if you don't like what you see and you don't know the breeder pm her, ask her question before jumping on her in a for sale thread. I did post because it was getting bad, and no one deserves bashing like that in public, no one had a reason for it. as for the money, 5000 seems like alot, but if you are a breeder then you should know how much time, money goes into breeding and trust me you don't get rich, your lucky if you break even. I don't charge that but if she feels hers are worth that and gets it, its her business not yours. I lost my butt on this breeding, but I am not into for the money, and if you noticed I keep them both, one because I wanted another female and two there weren't too many people I would let them go to..I am so picky and put alot of love into them and I couldn't decide whether to or not. the other problem I have are people that have never breed before jumping in.. I know everyone has there own opinions but if you haven't done it or don't have clue(but you think you do) have a little respect for the other person and pm them...I am not trying to be rude, but who made you the expert on anything...we all have to learn, but in my experience on YT there are too many people that think they know everything and they think there opinion is 100% correct...think before you post, cause like myself I am learning new stuff all the time, and the chance are you don't know everything like you think.:(

I wanted to keep quiet but I will state this. In a for sale thread that stands as that; FOR SALE. Many sides to all stories can be stated and opinionated. As we live in a country that allows us or freedom of speech. To do where is necessary(not in a FOR SALE thread), without knowing a person or there practices why sit and batter and completely turn someone off to a site that is supposed to be used for knowledge and HELP.

I AM A PROUD SOON TO BE NEW MOMMA of one of her beautiful babies. After speaking with her for over an hour. Listening to her knowledge, passion, and love for this breed I am more then excited to get my new baby. As my baby she was going to use for breeding and decided SHE WAS TOO TINY. For someone that is only doing this for only $$ and doesn't know what she is doing do you think she would be selling her!? I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANYONES OPINION, as I truly don't care. I was blessed that Deb has helped me in finding a wonderful baby with more then what I expected and at a perfect price. Not the $3000 posted on her site. Sometimes I feel that an opinion needs to be that an opinion and as once I am sure all of our mothers have said "If you don't have something nice to say then don't say it at all" I think a lot of people forgot that. So with someone that nearly cut that price more then half because she felt in her HEART I was the perfect home for her...does this for $$...I think NOT! Anyways, I am going to get back to my joys of YT and not the headaches that some seem to like to make it. Again, I don't care what people think. I am knowledgeable and smart enough to know what a person does and this wasn't for money it was out of love.

So with that being said THANK YOU SO MUCH DEB for I could have fallen a victim of someone that falls under those things people seem to think about her but instead didn't and found someone that I would buy a million babies from! :hearts-xx

So Happy New Year, and keep watch of the meeting of our new baby girl I will be adding to our family!! :D :cheers:

Yes, I catch your drift. I still feel it was uncalled for and if you were really interested, maybe a pm would have sufficed or you could ask the breeder you were referring to since you know her personally since it is no ones business here how she acquired any of her dogs.

I have yet to see one person claim that they know everything. I have seen many people here breeding in excess of 30 years who are the first to admit that they are still learning too.
Answering questions and getting answers and input from other breeders who see things differently is a great way to learn. So again I ask, if a for sale thread is not a good place to ask someone specifics about something, then where IS it appropriate.:)

You couldn't have said it any better! :thumbup:

She didn't answer you perhaps because she didn't feel she has to explain herself to you. If you really want to know why not pm her and ask her politely??

If you read what I posted then you would know what I think you need to pm them and ask you questions:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerr36792 (Post 1643993) She didn't answer you perhaps because she didn't feel she has to explain herself to you. If you really want to know why not pm her and ask her politely??

Actually, Debbie, I thought I was being polite when I asked her.

My post was NOT on the for sale thread - it was on the YTCA thread she started, someone just included it in this conversation that was talking about the 4 sale thread.

And.... if you post things on your website, I would guess that you may get asked questions about things on your website or perhaps it shouldn't be on the World Wide INTERNET. Hmmmm.....

In other words... don't put it out there if you don't want people to ask!

Seems to me that it should have been simple enough to answer. Don't you?

Hun it may be a very simple question and I have nothing against you as a person, but all I wanted to say was perhaps she didn't feel the need to explain it to you.

I am sorry that your friend may have been hurt by some of those posts. I looked at her puppies and they are cute...I especially like Valentino's eyes. I thought that your friend might want to know that I saw her puppy pictures on another website (http://www.elvisyorkshireterrier.com). She may already be aware of this, just thought I would mention it in case she is not affliiated with them.

Cute puppies!

Tammy

She is affiliated with elvis. She has a link to elvisYT on her website for people to see more pics of her puppies

She is aware of this they are friends.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I don't think that anyone but the two people involved in PMs stand to gain anything from it.
If there is someone who doesn't care to discuss things publically or answer questions asked of them--although they sell their dogs and advertise them on their website publically--then that is their choice. But if they are what they claim to be, I can't imagine why they wouldn't. To me it indicates they are not what they claim to be and are hiding something. But that it just my opinion.
Point is, when ANY member posts here and they have a site that is filled with things we all preach everyday to be red flags, then I think they shouldn't be surprised when people pick up on it and ask questions. Asking questions of breeders and being cautious of these things are some of the first pieces of advice given out when people are searching for a new dog. But then when questions ARE asked about something viewed as questionable, that's not right either.:confused:

Respectfully, it just doesn't make sense to me.:rolleyes:

It seems to me rather than BREAKING THE RULES, those of you who think their posts in her thread should be EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES, would be better served and more productive to contact the ADMIN if they feel the rule of that particular sub-forum is incorrect and should be changed rather than just taking it upon themselves to break the rules because they feel they are justified. It is lilke saying ADMIN is wrong on their rule so breaking it is okay. Breaking the rule in this instance is no different whatsoever than those who point out at every turn that someone asking for a yorkie under a certain dollar amount is breaking the rules. What is the difference? None that I can see - A RULE IS A RULE. My entitled opinion.

Whew...for a second there, I thought you were referring to me, but seeing as I never quoted rules for the purpose of 'disciplining' or 'snubbing' someone...as I have previously explained...but rather to copied what I thought was beneficial info...you must not be. :)

Oh, and in case you didn't see...there was a thread yesterday in the site/suggestion section where some people expressed concerns about some of the rules and received an reply with explanation from Admin, which really did explain alot. So see, people can and do go about things in a productive manner, as you mentioned.

ADMINS POST!
Thank you for your feedback. We periodically review the For Sale forum rules. The YT Featured Breeders are not in any way recommended by YorkieTalk, it was created because there were professional breeders that wanted to differentiate themselves from the Yorkies for Sale forum, which was getting crowded. The only fee is for listing Yorkies in the Featured forum and YT makes no commissions nor do we collect any money when Yorkies are sold. We believe a breeder may price their Yorkies at any price they wish, and buyers may choose to buy or not buy at that set price. We are not saying any Yorkie is worth more than any other Yorkie, but there is a discrepancy in Yorkie puppy prices from one state to another, as we have seen puppies as little as $300 or as high as $5000. All potential buyers should do their homework and ask questions before purchasing any pet.

The reason that only serious questions may be asked and only positive comments may be made is because there were other breeders who only posted to harass YT Featured Breeders, which is unfair. We believe the Yorkie For Sale forums are necessary and helpful, as many Yorkies have found wonderful homes through our For Sale forums.

The higher standard required of Featured Breeders are that they are required to offer a one-year health guarantee, contracts must be openly viewable, and they must have experience breeding Yorkies. This is what the YorkieTalk team decided on after consulting with YorkieTalk members on what should be required for a Featured YorkieTalk Breeder.

It is simply impossible for us to verify breeding stock, dam/sires of the Yorkie puppies, or other additional information from breeders.

Yep parker...you are right. That was their response. :confused: Like I said, it was discussed, they responded, and it answered alot of questions.:)

OH I just think that is pretty much what half of the people are trying to get across to the other half of the people that disagree. A rule is put into place period, not to be broken, I thought we learned that in grade school. JMO...that post wasn't drected toward you just in general so op can see what admin had to say. thats all:)

Thanks for posting this. I had not seen their response.

Parker, thanks for posting the answer from admin. I didnt see the thread as I dont go in that area too often.

:D np!