Is this possible to do?

[topknot]

Yes, Shirley is very experenced and truly knows she will pay way more than 1500 for a show dog. She was just wondering about the wordings in contracts and what is involved in buying/contracts with show dogs. She is at the gate - like the thoroughbred ready to start.... We know that Shirley will do great! She has also, I think, earned us all (show exhibitors) support and will also take her under our wings, even though she did not buy a pup from us.
Love ya - girl!!

I had to add this -- I do not think it is right to charge more money for a younger pup (like a 12 week old) just to get breeding rights. This tells me that the breeder just wants more money for full registrations and knows nothing nor cares for the quality of her dogs she lets out there to breed. You do not know if a dog (in any breed) is worthy of breeding till it is older. Selling a 12 week old pup for more money with breeding rights compared to same dog with limited registrations for less is just wrong! Another red flag in my opinion.
Limited registrations should go with any dog sold below 5 months of age at least and with any dog no matter the age that should not be breed.
T.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

Yes, Shirley is very experenced and truly knows she will pay way more than 1500 for a show dog. She was just wondering about the wordings in contracts and what is involved in buying/contracts with show dogs. She is at the gate - like the thoroughbred ready to start.... We know that Shirley will do great! She has also, I think, earned us all (show exhibitors) support and will also take her under our wings, even though she did not buy a pup from us.
Love ya - girl!!

I had to add this -- I do not think it is right to charge more money for a younger pup (like a 12 week old) just to get breeding rights. This tells me that the breeder just wants more money for full registrations and knows nothing nor cares for the quality of her dogs she lets out there to breed. You do not know if a dog (in any breed) is worthy of breeding till it is older. Selling a 12 week old pup for more money with breeding rights compared to same dog with limited registrations for less is just wrong! Another red flag in my opinion.
Limited registrations should go with any dog sold below 5 months of age at least and with any dog no matter the age that should not be breed.
T.

Agreed, Shirley has been doing her homework and knows what she wants. I think it hit her that it's getting closer to the time and the light went on that there are 2 seperate contracts and wanted a clearer definition of the two.

It's kind of like selling a "tiny" for more money because they're small.

[topknot]

It's kind of like selling a "tiny" for more money because they're small.

Totally agree ~ not right!
T.

[Emmsmom]

I may catch a lot of slack but. I realize that there are a LOT of breeders on here and I also realize that there are a lot who are scared to speak up for fear of being jumped on. I think a poll would be intresting to see just how many would buy from breeders with contracts.

All I can say is that I am really glad that not all breeders all like this. I understand why you are doing it but you also have to see our point of view. Some of us wouldn't be able to afford to buy a Yorkie if they were all priced high. So if you are spaying or neutering them BEFORE they leave why not drop the price down a tad. If not the price will keep going up and more of us will go to hobby breeders just to be able to buy one. I think then the problem will only get worse.

I don't plan on breeding Diesel. Have no intentions of it. For the price I paid I would have been willing to sign a spay or neuter contract. Honestly it seems that more and more that the only the elite can afford them anymore. I don't see that as being fair either. JMO. If you want to be fair about it all then why not bring your price down for dogs that are required to be fixed or ones that are already fixed. Especially if you are selling show quality for 1500 plus! JMO

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Emmsmom

I may catch a lot of slack but. I realize that there are a LOT of breeders on here and I also realize that there are a lot who are scared to speak up for fear of being jumped on. I think a poll would be intresting to see just how many would buy from breeders with contracts.

All I can say is that I am really glad that not all breeders all like this. I understand why you are doing it but you also have to see our point of view. Some of us wouldn't be able to afford to buy a Yorkie if they were all priced high. So if you are spaying or neutering them BEFORE they leave why not drop the price down a tad. If not the price will keep going up and more of us will go to hobby breeders just to be able to buy one. I think then the problem will only get worse.

I don't plan on breeding Diesel. Have no intentions of it. For the price I paid I would have been willing to sign a spay or neuter contract. Honestly it seems that more and more that the only the elite can afford them anymore. I don't see that as being fair either. JMO. If you want to be fair about it all then why not bring your price down for dogs that are required to be fixed or ones that are already fixed. Especially if you are selling show quality for 1500 plus! JMO

Spay/Neutering does not even figure into the cost when I place a yorkie. But, let me clarify, some reputable breeders do not spay/neuter prior to letting a puppy go.

I will say again, you'd be surprised buying from a reputable, responsible show exhibitor breeder is considerably less than buying from a Puppy Mill or BYB. The price definitely does not cover the cost of breeding correctly. Not if your breeding stock is pre-tested, puppies are vet checked and tested, etc. Especially if you have to incur the cost of a C-section.

What is attempting to being stressed here is that the reason for Spay/Neuter contracts is to protect our lines from the that person that just breeds to sell puppies, without doing the homework.

If you look around $1,000-$1,500 or more is what the going rate is for a yorkie that is bought from a BYB or a Puppy Mill.

Show dogs go for considerably more because they are kept longer to insure that you are getting a show quality dog.

[Saleswman]

I do appreciate your support....... I have tried to do my homework, all the right things....and....am working on gaining respect in this arena.....as you know I don't do things quickly.......I am a shopper....so says my hubby.....drives him NUTS!!!

But, I really do understand the real issue here about Contracts. They scare the heck out of me too.......especially when you are talking about well over $1000+++, pet or show. I do believe that as a whole, most YT are passionate and committed about owning, breeding and showing the very best Yorkie they can....at least I hope they are...

My desire is a whole lot different than some here.......the closer it gets the more scared to trust my own knowledge, I get.....Heck what do I know...???? I can not even compare in knowledge to someone who has done this for 20-30 years......(we won't talk age,ha ha ha). I just want to do the right thing....ethical, considerate, passionate.......all those included.....and to be respected myself...

Sure wish I lived near both of you gals....I would probably be already camped out at your house......


Sorry to ramble......I just get so excited sometimes....like a kid in a candy store......gosh, I really do sound like my Mother....LOL

but, I do know what I think, and hopefully it is just what the judges think...LMAO...and the contract is not the main thought right now......its making the right choice.....

I do really appreciate everyone spelling out this issue for me though.....it puts light back into the "other" aspects of this agreement......

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Saleswman

I do appreciate your support....... I have tried to do my homework, all the right things....and....am working on gaining respect in this arena.....as you know I don't do things quickly.......I am a shopper....so says my hubby.....drives him NUTS!!!

But, I really do understand the real issue here about Contracts. They scare the heck out of me too.......especially when you are talking about well over $1000+++, pet or show. I do believe that as a whole, most YT are passionate and committed about owning, breeding and showing the very best Yorkie they can....at least I hope they are...

My desire is a whole lot different than some here.......the closer it gets the more scared to trust my own knowledge, I get.....Heck what do I know...???? I can not even compare in knowledge to someone who has done this for 20-30 years......(we won't talk age,ha ha ha). I just want to do the right thing....ethical, considerate, passionate.......all those included.....and to be respected myself...

Sure wish I lived near both of you gals....I would probably be already camped out at your house......


Sorry to ramble......I just get so excited sometimes....like a kid in a candy store......gosh, I really do sound like my Mother....LOL

but, I do know what I think, and hopefully it is just what the judges think...LMAO...and the contract is not the main thought right now......its making the right choice.....

I do really appreciate everyone spelling out this issue for me though.....it puts light back into the "other" aspects of this agreement......

Good luck in your quest Shirley, I for one know what you're going through. I you are as blessed as I and finding a mentor/breeder (breeding/exhibiting yorkies for close to 40 years and finishing well over 100 champions), to me she is the best. She knowledgably picked the stud for my 1st Champion's first litter and whelped the litter for me (with me assisting). I will never have as much knowledge in my whole body as she does in her little pinkie. But, then I trust her implicitly.

Will you be attending the NY Specialty?

[topknot]

Sorry so long -

I may catch a lot of slack but. I realize that there are a LOT of breeders on here and I also realize that there are a lot who are scared to speak up for fear of being jumped on. I think a poll would be intresting to see just how many would buy from breeders with contracts.

All I can say is that I am really glad that not all breeders all like this. I understand why you are doing it but you also have to see our point of view. Some of us wouldn't be able to afford to buy a Yorkie if they were all priced high. So if you are spaying or neutering them BEFORE they leave why not drop the price down a tad. If not the price will keep going up and more of us will go to hobby breeders just to be able to buy one. I think then the problem will only get worse.

I don't plan on breeding Diesel. Have no intentions of it. For the price I paid I would have been willing to sign a spay or neuter contract. Honestly it seems that more and more that the only the elite can afford them anymore. I don't see that as being fair either. JMO. If you want to be fair about it all then why not bring your price down for dogs that are required to be fixed or ones that are already fixed. Especially if you are selling show quality for 1500 plus! JMO
Today 11:28 AM

I use to think like you many moons ago, before i got into showing and breeding and seeing how the quality of the yorkie has gone down over the years. When I first showed back in the early 80's most all yokies were in the right size limit, you didn't hear or see so many dogs with petella problems or liver shunts and I never heard of a chocolate or blue pup until last year (there must have been some, but few)when I decide to return to breeding and showing. so what happened??? I think the answer lays in too many people breeding and not knowing about the genetics behind their dogs!!

For a show guality - you are going to pay a lot more than 1500+. I paid an average of 3,200 plus for my dogs to make sure I got excellent quality yorkies and I am showing them to get more expert advice on evaluating them and hopefully gain their championship. I know that showing is hard and expensive and not for everyone. But for me important.

Let's look at the pros of spaying/neuter before a breeder sells:
Spaying/neuter before you buy -
#1. reduces the risk of developing certain cancers.
#2 avoides the going through heat mess and issues.
#3 reduces worry, since it is already done.
#4 protects the breeders name and lines

I see it as a win win situation! What is wrong with it? Nothing - unless you want to breed or need that control.

Why should breeders drop their price when they had to pay for the operation to have the pup spayed/neutered? We don't make anything on our pups now and I am not always going to give them away either.

If I was looking for just a pet - I would want to know the dog's genetics to know alittle better what I was going to have when the dog becomes an adult, Want to make sure the breeder tested the sire and dam before breeding and then checked out the pup as much as possible to make sure the pup was as healthy as can be, so less of a chance I would have a ton of vet bills later. And want the breeder to be very knowledgable and reputable so that I would have her help I knew she would be there for me. All this comes with some price. Getting a yorkie at bottom prices is not going to get you all this. The tests are expensive and add up. I even have my vet give the pups the vaccines too. I just feel safer and if anything happen - I have him to consult with.

I know better now - that reputable breeders are not trying to charge too much for their dogs. They just want a way to protect them and not loose all their money. They are not trying to force you to go to buy from someone that is not reputable. Buyers cannot expect though to get something for nothing. Have you guys seen the ads lately for people wantin yorkie pups for wither free or around 250.00? That would not even pay for the first set of shots and vet exam.
Sorry - I will get off my soap box now. I just feel that over the years - buyers are not aware and expect something for nothing. And because of over bredding we have to spend more for good quality dogs to start with, for testing and vet checks to make sure what we have are good sound dogs. Vet care too has gone up over the years.
So when you see a pup advertised for less than 1000. for sale chances are research has not been done nor necessary testing on the parents and pups. The choice is yours who to buy from. The questions is - do you want to take that risk just to save a few bucks, you think up front. I would rather have the peace of mind what exactly I was paying for.

I am not mad - just trying to educate and explain.

T.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

Sorry so long -


I use to think like you many moons ago, before i got into showing and breeding and seeing how the quality of the yorkie has gone down over the years. When I first showed back in the early 80's most all yokies were in the right size limit, you didn't hear or see so many dogs with petella problems or liver shunts and I never heard of a chocolate or blue pup until last year (there must have been some, but few)when I decide to return to breeding and showing. so what happened??? I think the answer lays in too many people breeding and not knowing about the genetics behind their dogs!!

For a show guality - you are going to pay a lot more than 1500+. I paid an average of 3,200 plus for my dogs to make sure I got excellent quality yorkies and I am showing them to get more expert advice on evaluating them and hopefully gain their championship. I know that showing is hard and expensive and not for everyone. But for me important.

Let's look at the pros of spaying/neuter before a breeder sells:
Spaying/neuter before you buy -
#1. reduces the risk of developing certain cancers.
#2 avoides the going through heat mess and issues.
#3 reduces worry, since it is already done.
#4 protects the breeders name and lines

I see it as a win win situation! What is wrong with it? Nothing - unless you want to breed or need that control.

Why should breeders drop their price when they had to pay for the operation to have the pup spayed/neutered? We don't make anything on our pups now and I am not always going to give them away either.

If I was looking for just a pet - I would want to know the dog's genetics to know alittle better what I was going to have when the dog becomes an adult, Want to make sure the breeder tested the sire and dam before breeding and then checked out the pup as much as possible to make sure the pup was as healthy as can be, so less of a chance I would have a ton of vet bills later. And want the breeder to be very knowledgable and reputable so that I would have her help I knew she would be there for me. All this comes with some price. Getting a yorkie at bottom prices is not going to get you all this. The tests are expensive and add up. I even have my vet give the pups the vaccines too. I just feel safer and if anything happen - I have him to consult with.

I know better now - that reputable breeders are not trying to charge too much for their dogs. They just want a way to protect them and not loose all their money. They are not trying to force you to go to buy from someone that is not reputable. Buyers cannot expect though to get something for nothing. Have you guys seen the ads lately for people wantin yorkie pups for wither free or around 250.00? That would not even pay for the first set of shots and vet exam.
Sorry - I will get off my soap box now. I just feel that over the years - buyers are not aware and expect something for nothing. And because of over bredding we have to spend more for good quality dogs to start with, for testing and vet checks to make sure what we have are good sound dogs. Vet care too has gone up over the years.
So when you see a pup advertised for less than 1000. for sale chances are research has not been done nor necessary testing on the parents and pups. The choice is yours who to buy from. The questions is - do you want to take that risk just to save a few bucks, you think up front. I would rather have the peace of mind what exactly I was paying for.

I am not mad - just trying to educate and explain.

T.

I'm on the soap box with you......at times you can get through to 1 person and it makes it well worth the effort. Not mad either.....just passionate about the future of the Yorkshire Terrier.....

[topknot]

Oh, Shirley - you have to go to the NY Speciality! That is where the lighbulb will begin to glow for the rest of your life. I will never forget my first time. What an experience. And for you information - if you walk into your hotel room and the covers on the bed have been moved - don't call the bell hop like I did. It is just something the hotel does for you at night and places a candy on the pillow! LOL Yep, learn this on my first trip to the Speciality and Westminster show trip.
It is really worth it! Talk about meeting all the top dogs!! People included!

Shirley - what we do too when loooking for a new pup - we also ask expereince breeder friends that we trust what they think about a certain puppy before we bring it home. It helps to get that second opinion and remember it is just an opinion. We also must trust our gut insinct. If it feels bad - don't go through with it. I have also had to wait a long time for that certain breeding and that certain pup. There is just so many dynamic that go into getting that show hopeful!
Best of luck to you!
T.

[Mardelin]

[QUOTE=topknot] And for you information - if you walk into your hotel room and the covers on the bed have been moved - don't call the bell hop like I did. It is just something the hotel does for you at night and places a candy on the pillow! LOL Yep, learn this on my first trip to the Speciality and Westminster show trip.

OK T, where did you stay......cause it ain't at the same place I've stayed or am staying.........
I remember the 1st time I went, it was without a dog (at my mentor's advice) so, that I could get educated. As she did the whole weekend, I learned so much and it was marevelous.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

Oh, Shirley - you have to go to the NY Speciality! That is where the lighbulb will begin to glow for the rest of your life. I will never forget my first time. What an experience. And for you information - if you walk into your hotel room and the covers on the bed have been moved - don't call the bell hop like I did. It is just something the hotel does for you at night and places a candy on the pillow! LOL Yep, learn this on my first trip to the Speciality and Westminster show trip.

T.

Oops! The one thing that really impressed me is they provided towels for the dogs.....now, is that a hopeless exhibitor.....if they do things for my dogs....that all I care about.

[topknot]

I think it was the Ritz. They were great and even found a cab for us to take us back to the airport - NJ. Apparently that can be a problem getting transportation over the bridge.
It was pretty centrally located for the shows.
T.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

I think it was the Ritz. They were great and even found a cab for us to take us back to the airport - NJ. Apparently that can be a problem getting transportation over the bridge.
It was pretty centrally located for the shows.
T.

Well that clarifies it. We stay at the New Yorker, where the dog show is being held.....nice, but not plush, but oh so convienent if you're showing a dog and a block and half to the Gardens.

[JCarlson2004]

I am a firm believer in spaying and neutering your pets. I'll even go as far as saying I would NOT buy a dog from a breeder who did not insist upon spay/neuter.