Help please took Royce to the vet

[myriamha]

Originally Posted by Lacy's Mom

Bacteria can be seen in the urine so if there was no bacteria then there is no UTI. A few white blood cells could come from contamination from the prepuce (penis opening). I would question more why he wants you to come back. Why did you have his urine tested in the first place?

He had his urine tested because i was suspecting that royce drinks alot of water ....he asked meto monitor his water intake for 3 days if its 200 ml and up then i should bring him back for more tests as 4 pounds yorkie should drink no more than 200 ml/ day ...he asked me to come back for more tests

[Rem&Silkmom]

My Remmy just had bladder stone surgery for the second time. Stuvite stones forming are mostly from having a bladder infection. These stones can form in as little as two weeks. I just had Remmy's urine checked and he had no blood in his urine but ended up having stones. He had no symptoms until his uretha was blocked and he could not urinate.
I would wonder why he did not give him meds just incase. However I am not a vet so there could be a reason.

[RLC12345678]

Poor Royce. Hope your little ones feels better soon. Hugs from Hootie and Hobbs. Please keep us updated.

[yorkiecrazy]

Originally Posted by Piccolo's mom

I would go to another vet just to make sure. This doesn't sound right.

She is right, this doesn't sound right. I would go to another vet ASP.
My prayer are with the both of you.

[daisy mae06]

Originally Posted by myriamha

He had his urine tested because i was suspecting that royce drinks alot of water ....he asked meto monitor his water intake for 3 days if its 200 ml and up then i should bring him back for more tests as 4 pounds yorkie should drink no more than 200 ml/ day ...he asked me to come back for more tests

Has he been tested for k-9 addisons? I would ask the vet. good luck and keep us posted please.

[TJCHRISYORK]

Being a human nurse, I would guess tht maybe he wanting you to check his water intake for possible diabities, increased water intake is a sign of diabities, BUT I would call your vet as soon as they open and ask him WHY he is waiting and what exactly he is looking for,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,vets and human drs really make me mad when they tell you to do something and do not give you a rationale on WHY..........you call them back when they open and tell the doggie nurse to have to DR call you back and tell you WHY he is asking you to do the things he wants........I am very quilty of it to, but when your puppy is sick you get in there and just want to know what and when they are going to get better tht we forget to ask the vet WHY and then they think us humans are just supposed to know wht they are thinking. Wht is going on with your dog is not supposed to be a mystery, he needs to let you know why no antibiotics and why are you watching the water intake and wht is he leaning towards...........if you are anything like me I remeber all my questions at night when I am laying in bed trying to fall asleep, good luck and all will be OK, the vet isnt making a huge deal about it so no woory until need be and if you dont like wht he has to say..move on to the nxt

CHRISTINE

[daisy mae06]

The reason I said Addisons is The water in take and urination is one of the thigs that points to this I had a dog that had it.

Excessive urination with or without excessive thirst

[Lacy's Mom]

The intake of too much water (30 mls or 1 ounce per pound per day) is called polydipsia - How is the measuring going, does his intake seem more than it should be? Here is some information on it:

Polydipsia and Polyuria in Dogs
By: PetPlace Veterinarians
Edited by: Dr. Stephen DiBartola

Section: Overview

The term polydipsia refers to excessive thirst manifested by excessive water intake, which in turn usually leads to polyuria, which is the formation and excretion of a large volume of urine. Polydipsia and polyuria are early signs of several diseases, including:


Kidney failure

Diabetes mellitus

Uterine infection (called pyometra) - you can rule this one out

Liver disease

High blood calcium

Uncommon abnormalities of the pituitary gland

Inability of the tubules of the kidney to reabsorb water properly (i.e. “nephrogenic” diabetes insipidus

Dogs normally take in about 20 to 40 milliliters per pound of body weight per day, or about 3 to 4 cups of water per day for a 20 pound dog. Anything more than that, under normal environmental conditions, is considered polydipsia.

You should watch your dog for increased thirst and urinations. Some dogs may begin drinking from a dripping faucet in the sink or from an open toilet bowl. However, if you want to determine how much your dog is drinking, allow him only one source of water and subtract the amount left in the bowl after 24 hours from the amount you put in originally. If you determine that your pet is drinking excessively, make an appointment with your veterinarian.

Diagnosis

One of the first steps in the evaluation of a dog with polyuria and polydipsia is to determine the urine concentration by a test called “urine specific gravity.” The specific gravity of pure water is 1.000. Polyuria is suspected if the urine specific gravity is less than 1.035. This can be verified by measuring daily urine output. Polyuria is present if the dog's daily urine output is greater than 20 milliliters per pound of body weight per day.

Several diagnostic tests may be needed to determine the cause of polyuria and polydipsia because many different diseases may cause these symptoms. Tests may include:


Complete medical history and physical examination including palpating the abdomen to check kidney and liver size, checking for vaginal discharge in females, and palpating the thyroid gland.


The history that includes the determination of drug administration (e.g. diuretics, anticonvulsants, cortisone-type drugs, salt; or recent fluid therapy); reproductive status (i.e. sexually intact or spayed) in females; occurrence of urinary accidents in the house; abnormal odor or appearance of the urine; and the presence of weight loss, appetite change, or any other abnormalities.

[myriamha]

so far his water intake is normal less than 200ml a day so im a bit relieved actually he drinks only 100 ml ...the vet explained that if his water intake is normal then i only have to bring him back in 3 weeks for another urine test to check if white blood cells are still there or not . and the reason why he didnt put him on antibiotics is that there are no bacterias in his urine and he has no physical signs of a utc ex blood when he pees or forcing himself to pee .

[Lacy's Mom]

If he is straining to urinate I would be worried about stones blocking the passageway. Talk to your vet about immediately putting him on Cranberry Extract. Here's a link, but you can get it at pet stores and even the human version at health stores - take the human dosage divide it by 125 and then multiply by your dog's weight. Most of the cranberry juices you see have sugar (not good), but you can buy 100% cranberry juice without sugar, but it doesn't taste very good so I would just go with the cranberry extract powder.

Also Vitamin C has been known to dissolve stones in 24 hours.
http://www.jeanesholistics.com/Cranberryextract.html

[Lacy's Mom]

More information on cranberry extract:

Tips in Treatment for Struvite Stones
Keep fresh water available for the dog at all times, and encourage consumption of water. Keeping the kidneys and bladders flushed is of paramount importance to help prevent crystals and stone formation. Water consumption is very, very important!

Try and feed moist diets, such as fresh, raw meat, broths, canned diets and extra water added to foods served.

Do not keep the dog confined, but allow access for urination at all times or as frequently as possible. Holding the urine causes concentrations that encourage crystal and stone formation.

Distilled water may be helpful in averting some cases of stone and crystal formation and check your own water supply for minerals if possible, especially if you have hard water in your area.

Giving a B vitamin supplement may be helpful and has been indicated in use for humans with these problems.
See our supplement recommendations below

There is also some question that high calcium, rather than causing stones, may help dissolve them. This is also true of vitamin C

The administering a botanical vaccinium macrocarpon (cranberry extract), in tablet, capsule or powder form has been known to attain the necessary acid pH to dissolve and prevent the formation of magnesium ammonium phosphate crystals and bladder stones. Your Animal's Health Vol 4 Wendell O. Belfield DVM.

Cranberry Extract has proven by many to be what they call the "magic bullet" needed to treat, prevent, and control the formation of struvite crystals in cats and bladder stones in dogs. This Cranberry and its extract or concentrated form in products is toxic free and will dissolve struvite crystals sometimes within a few hours.

Not until 1984 did dr. Anthony Sobota and his staff succeed in showing that cranberry extract works by preventing the rod-shaped bacteria fron sticking to mucosa of the urinary tracts. In this way they were flushed out with the urine.

Cranberry contains - among other things - the sugar substance D-mannose which has the special ability of being able to prevent harmful bacteria from sticking to the walls of the mucosal wall without harming the friendly-minded bacteria. They also contain the substance arbutin which is effective against certain bacteria and fungi, among others the Candida fungus.

If your dog is already affected, surgical intervention may be necessary to remove the stones. Cranberry Extract can then be administered as a safeguard against the return of the stone. As in the cat, crystals can be detected on routine urinalysis in the dog and a preventive protocol with Cranberry extract will prevent the formation of larger stones.

How does it work?

Cranberries and cranberry juice have been proven effective for treatment of urinary tract infections in humans (e.g. cystitis)and bladder stones in animals in a number of clinical trials. Researchers used to believe the action of cranberry juice is due to acidifying the urine and the antibacterial effects of a cranberry component, hippuric acid but recent studies have shown components in cranberry juice to reduce the ability of bacteria to adhere to the lining of the bladder and urethra. In order for bacteria to infect, they must first adhere to the mucosa. Thus, taking cranberry products, the causative bacteria are flushed, preventing their colonization of the urinary tract. The more the patients drinks liquid or takes the extract of concentrated juice, the more effectively the bacteria are flushed out from the urinary bladder.

While cranberry juice/extract is indicated as an effective treatment for urinary tract infections in pets, most cranberry juices on the market contain one-third cranberry juice mixed with water and sugar. Since sugar has such a detrimental effect on the immune system, sweetened cranberry juice cannot be recommended. For obvious reasons, patient compliance may be very poor with unsweetened cranberry juice. Cranberry Extract (Capsules, tablets or powder) give your dog (or cat) the benefits of cranberry juice in easy to swallow forms, without added sugar or artificial sweeteners.

Cranberry supplements can provide you with an exact, pharmacologically effective daily dose with natural biologically active substances against urinary tract bacterial infections. Cranberry extract is high in natural vitamin C and other natural antioxidants (proanthocyanidines) and tannins that keep bacteria (E. coli) from clinging to the walls of the urinary bladder and the urinary tract.

Cranberry is used to prevent kidney stones and “bladder gravel” as well as to remove toxins from the blood. Cranberry has long been recommended for pets and persons with recurrent urinary tract infections (UTIs).

Cranberry prevents E. coli, the most common cause of UTIs and recurrent UTIs, from adhering to the cells lining the wall of the bladder. Cranberry's antiadherence action renders the bacteria harmless in the urinary tract. Cranberry has been shown to reduce bacteria levels in the urinary bladders of older women, which may help to prevent future infections. Cranberry can help people with urostomies and enterocystoplasties to keep them clear of mucus buildup.

[myriamha]

I spoke with the vet's assistant today I asked her why he didnt put Royce on antibiotics and she said she didnt do so because the number is white blood cells is extremely low and since i have been monitoring his daily water intake and he his drinking normal amounts I only have to bring him back in 3 weeks just to mae sure that there are no white blood cells at all in his urine ...I don't have to bring Royce to another vet as this one has the reputation of being one of the best vet if not the best in montreal .