Some people are just idiots!

[bosslady]

I don't take Jasmine into stores very often and I would never take her into a restaurant. However, My little 5 lb Yorkie zipped up in a bag where no part of her is out of the bag is a different issue than a big great dane or any other big dog in a store.
In the first place, no part of her body ever touches anything in the store. She is completely confined. She can not shed on anything, lick anything, urinate or poop. She can not run up to anyone, including older adults and children so there is no fear of her biting or knocking anyone down or scaring anyone. No one can even see her. The top of the bag and one side has black mesh so she can breath but really can not be seen. No one has ever even known I had her with me.

I had big dogs for years and never took them anyplace like that. I never wanted too for fear of infringing on others. However, since they don't even know jasmine is in the purse, how can I be a nuisance.

I was offended when we used to go to the lake all the time and even though there were signs all over the beach there was always someone who would have some huge dog that was pooping and peeing on the sand and they would take them in the water where my children and I was swimming. Sorry, but I don't want to swim with a huge dog no telling when he had a bath last. I wouldn't take Jasmine in a lake or pool where people were swimming and she has a bath once a week and smells better than a lot of people. I just wouldn't want to offend anyone with my dog.

I have also had these big dogs growl at kids that walked by and that made me mad. The kids were allowed on the beach, the dog was not. If I had a dog that did not like children I would not take it to a place where there were lots of children.

That's just my opinion and I respectfully value everyone else's. I am certainly not trying to be argumentative as I abhor conflict of any kind.

[Angela]

I just had to take a refresher quiz on Animal Disability Act for work and the store CAN NOT ask you what the animal is trianed for or ask for proof. They can or shall I say only suppose to ask if its a service animal and that's it. We had a lady come in with TWO MONKEYS the other day, the managers at Wal Mart had never delt with this so she was held up at the door for a while b/c they couldn't tel her she couldn't come in with her claiming they were service animals the managers called home office...........I was off that day, but they must have gotten in b/c all the girls on the front end were talking about how cute the monkeys were..................I am not saying its right or wrong but the law very much protects service animals and leaves room for people to lie when we are not allowed to ask any qustions or see proof...........Also, once they pass the door person and are IN the store you can't question them. Wal Mart is very play by the book, I am sure some stores would ask more, but by law they are not entitled to. In our last meeting I told them I expexted to see more dogs in the store with so many people now getting them certified for anxiety so they can take them everywhere. I have a 2 pound, 3 pound, and 3 and half pound girls who have the cutest clothes and I love to take them places, but I don't want to put myself in a position of a possible argument with someone b/c I snuck them in..............I limit it sneaking them in anywhere b/c of that.

Angie

[SnowWa]

AlisonJ -- You mentioned seeing eye dogs versus other dogs being able to visit a store. I think if you'd count the seeing eye dogs that go into a store, you could probably count a year's worth on one hand. I almost never see one.

But - if all pets were allowed to enter a store - you could have dozens there every day.

And - as we all know - seeing eye dogs (because of the service they perform) are, by law, allowed everywhere.

I'm sure we are all in favor of allowing service dogs anywhere. And, we're all willing to accept the consequences. I have seen seeing eye dogs in restaurants before - and people, rather than not want them there, are very respectful of them and admire them. They are also certainly well trained and well behaved.

******A lot of dogs are well trained and well behaved - but there are sure a lot that aren't.

******Our little Yorkies are usually quite clean - but again, a lot of dogs aren't.

******Also, I think most of our little guys receive routine vet care and are up to date on their shots and are healthy - a lot of dogs aren't.

These are some of the reasons that "all pets" can't be allowed to visit many places. You could quickly end up with a lot of unruly, perhaps not too friendly, dirty, or even diseased dogs.

I really feel that our little Yorkies wouldn't cause many problems anywhere, but if we can take our dogs into stores, etc., so can everyone else --- and then there will definitely be problems. Even we wouldn't like that!

Plus think of all the accidents a lot of dogs would have in these public places!!!! Not good!

No pets - is a good rule for many places.

Carol Jean

[alisonJ]

Originally Posted by SnowWa

AlisonJ -- You mentioned seeing eye dogs versus other dogs being able to visit a store. I think if you'd count the seeing eye dogs that go into a store, you could probably count a year's worth on one hand. I almost never see one.

But - if all pets were allowed to enter a store - you could have dozens there every day.

And - as we all know - seeing eye dogs (because of the service they perform) are, by law, allowed everywhere.

Carol Jean

I agree--that is exactly the point I was attempting to make, although I may not have done so very well. WHen I spoke of a matter of scale, I meant that if pets were allowed, there would be tons of them, while working dogs are few and far between....

[Brandy101b]

You can not really LIE about a service dog we have a training facility here in florida for them and they have never trained a small dog and all service dogs are required to wear a vest so its pretty obvious weather they are or not. And of all the service dogs I have seen you can tell the owners need them, they are normally disabled. But thats not the point how immature do you have to be to lie and say your dog is a service dog if they are not???
Rules are set to keep peace, and saftey and yes we all break them from time to time but is this really that hard of a topic?? Dogs have there places and people have theres Period!

As for the dogs on the beach I think it is rude to bring big or small dogs tehre I agree 100%. However by you saying my great dane is to big, thats discrimination and that is why they don't allow ANY TYPE of pet!
We could all go back and forth all day on this topic some people just don't respect others and we will all have to agree to disagree!

[Baileys_Momma]

Originally Posted by Brandy101b

You can not really LIE about a service dog we have a training facility here in florida for them and they have never trained a small dog and all service dogs are required to wear a vest so its pretty obvious weather they are or not. And of all the service dogs I have seen you can tell the owners need them, they are normally disabled. But thats not the point how immature do you have to be to lie and say your dog is a service dog if they are not???
Rules are set to keep peace, and saftey and yes we all break them from time to time but is this really that hard of a topic?? Dogs have there places and people have theres Period!

As for the dogs on the beach I think it is rude to bring big or small dogs tehre I agree 100%. However by you saying my great dane is to big, thats discrimination and that is why they don't allow ANY TYPE of pet!
We could all go back and forth all day on this topic some people just don't respect others and we will all have to agree to disagree!

Here is a good site to go to for reference on service dogs and the can/can not's of the Federal Regulations. I am very familiar with the regulations of service dogs as my oldest daughter is disabled and we have looked into getting a service dog for her.

Here are a couple of highlights:

How can I identify if a dog is a service dog and not just a pet?

The simple answer is to ask the handler, "Is this a service dog?" You may also ask what tasks the dog has been trained to do for the handler. A service dog can be any breed or size.

Does the dog have to wear a vest or tag to identify it as a service dog?
No, there is no Federal requirement that the dog wear any special gear or identification. Also, there is no requirement that the handler carry any certification papers showing that the dog has been trained as a service dog. You may not ask the person about the nature or extent of his or her disability.

How do local health and safety laws apply to service dogs?

Remember that service dogs are not pets. Therefore, local laws that restrict pets from restaurants, housing, and theaters, for example, are not applicable to service dogs. A good rule of thumb is that the ADA is the law that governs matters related to access to public places and businesses for people with disabilities accompanied by their service dogs. But, handlers of service dogs must obey local leash and vaccine laws and must have their dogs under control at all times.

[Baileys_Momma]

Originally Posted by Brandy101b

You can not really LIE about a service dog we have a training facility here in florida for them and they have never trained a small dog and all service dogs are required to wear a vest so its pretty obvious weather they are or not. And of all the service dogs I have seen you can tell the owners need them, they are normally disabled. But thats not the point how immature do you have to be to lie and say your dog is a service dog if they are not???
Rules are set to keep peace, and saftey and yes we all break them from time to time but is this really that hard of a topic?? Dogs have there places and people have theres Period!

As for the dogs on the beach I think it is rude to bring big or small dogs tehre I agree 100%. However by you saying my great dane is to big, thats discrimination and that is why they don't allow ANY TYPE of pet!
We could all go back and forth all day on this topic some people just don't respect others and we will all have to agree to disagree!

I'm sorry, I just could not let this one go as I am very passionate about my disabled daughter. She does not look disabled and I/We (dh) take great offense to someone saying that it is obvious that a person needs a service dog because they appear disabled. As a matter of fact, if you looked at my daughter you would never be able to tell that she cannot speak, wears a diaper at the age of 8 and cannot comprehend that of a 6 mo. old let alone an 8 y/o.

[BabyFidgette]

Originally Posted by alisonJ

Look, it is a matter of scale. Of course a seeing eye dog (I call them "working dogs") can contaminate food, as a Yorkie can. The difference is that there are a gajillion pet dogs and only a few working dogs. Just think if EVERYONE brought their dog into a supermarket. As much as I love my dog, I would be grossed out.

Let common sense prevail, please. The manager of that store didn't give you a great explanation, but his intent was good, I think.

Sorry, please don't talk to me about common sense. I have it. The question is did I use it when I went into the supermarket? No. Did I admit that I was stupid for doing so? Yes. I just got Baby. Did I want to leave her alone? No. Did I want to show her off a bit? Yes. Was I not thinking about others? Yes. Was I being selfish? Yes. Will I do it again? No. But, you people are missing my point! I said his explaination was idiotic! That's it!! Did he mean well? Yes. I never said he didn't. Please, please, please stop twisting my words around. It's getting annoying.

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.

[Baileys_Momma]

Originally Posted by BabyFidgette

Sorry, please don't talk to me about common sense. I have it. The question is did I use it when I went into the supermarket? No. Did I admit that I was stupid for doing so? Yes. I just got Baby. Did I want to leave her alone? No. Did I want to show her off a bit? Yes. Was I not thinking about others? Yes. Was I being selfish? Yes. Will I do it again? No. But, you people are missing my point! I said his explaination was idiotic! That's it!! Did he mean well? Yes. I never said he didn't. Please, please, please stop twisting my words around. It's getting annoying.

God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.

AMEN SISTER!!! Well said.

[BabyFidgette]

Originally Posted by d4nimal

I am impressed with the depth of dialogue that we've had on this thread already without people's emotions getting the best of them. Let's keep it up.

I agree Brandy and Carol Jean (among others). Though we can all see your perspective on the issue, you simply cannot make exceptions for one dog and not another. Personally, I don't even understand the allure of trying to sneak your dog into places. It reminds me of middle schoolers trying to sneak candy into a theatre. I certainly don't see an adult reason for doing it. Why can't you just leave your dog at home when you are running errands?

While I don't think the guy w/ the big dog handled it correctly, I think he was correct in wondering why you got to bring your dog in when he didn't. "But my dog is small and I was holding her." That is not the point at all. I think it is disrespectful, though not intentionally, of people not to consider that others don't want to have a dog or animal in places they shop or eat for health or personal reasons. No one but you knows that your dog is well behaved and isn't going to mess up anything. No one but you knows that your dog is healthy and isn't going to potentially be a source of disease for others. And not even you know if someone in that store is severely allergic to dogs. The one thing we do know is that the store could get in serious trouble for your dog being allowed in. This is why it isn't supposed to be left up to you to decide if you want to follow that law.

The catalyst of this event was not the guy who brought his big dog in. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it started when you decided to bring your dog into the store.

Sorry...gotta disagree with the whole candy in the theatre issue. I am NOT paying $5.00+ dollars for candy. Buy it at Walmart and stick it in your purse baby!

[bosslady]

I did not say your great dane was too big. I certainly have nothing against big dogs. I have had 2 great pyranees, an English Sheepdog, an Irish Setter and a chow. I loved them dearly but left them at home because it was difficult to take them places and I couldn't carry them as I do Jasmine.
I might have taken them to Petsmart, etc but not to a store.
Just as an airline will allow a little dog up front in a carrier but will not allow a big dog to ride up front. There are some places a tiny dog is allowed to go and be carried in a carrier that a big dog is not allowed.

I did say I would not take my 5 lb Yorkie to the beach to swim as it would be infringing on others. I do not take Jasmine anyplace that she would be a nuisance to anyone or infringe on their rights or to anyplace like a resturant where it would be against the law. If she is in her bag and no one even knows she is in the bag then she isn't bothering anyone.

[BabyFidgette]

Originally Posted by d4nimal

I am impressed with the depth of dialogue that we've had on this thread already without people's emotions getting the best of them. Let's keep it up.

I agree Brandy and Carol Jean (among others). Though we can all see your perspective on the issue, you simply cannot make exceptions for one dog and not another. Personally, I don't even understand the allure of trying to sneak your dog into places. It reminds me of middle schoolers trying to sneak candy into a theatre. I certainly don't see an adult reason for doing it. Why can't you just leave your dog at home when you are running errands?

While I don't think the guy w/ the big dog handled it correctly, I think he was correct in wondering why you got to bring your dog in when he didn't. "But my dog is small and I was holding her." That is not the point at all. I think it is disrespectful, though not intentionally, of people not to consider that others don't want to have a dog or animal in places they shop or eat for health or personal reasons. No one but you knows that your dog is well behaved and isn't going to mess up anything. No one but you knows that your dog is healthy and isn't going to potentially be a source of disease for others. And not even you know if someone in that store is severely allergic to dogs. The one thing we do know is that the store could get in serious trouble for your dog being allowed in. This is why it isn't supposed to be left up to you to decide if you want to follow that law.

The catalyst of this event was not the guy who brought his big dog in. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it started when you decided to bring your dog into the store.

I'm not trying to sound mean to you, but people are allergic to a lot of things other than dogs, i.e. peanuts. People who are allergic to dogs do what? Sneeze, get itchy eyes? Big deal. I'm on Allegra D every day of my life. I've never heard of a person having an anaphylactic shock over a dog. Now..people die from peanut allergies. Does that mean you are not going to keep peanut M&Ms in your pocket for fear that someone will die if they get a whiff of them? I highly doubt it. Now, once again, please don't twist words around...I am not saying dogs should or shouldn't be allowed in public places. I am stating that a dog allergy is not a big deal. But, I'll admit. I can't be wrong. I have been once or twice in my life.

[BabyFidgette]

Originally Posted by bosslady

I don't take Jasmine into stores very often and I would never take her into a restaurant. However, My little 5 lb Yorkie zipped up in a bag where no part of her is out of the bag is a different issue than a big great dane or any other big dog in a store.
In the first place, no part of her body ever touches anything in the store. She is completely confined. She can not shed on anything, lick anything, urinate or poop. She can not run up to anyone, including older adults and children so there is no fear of her biting or knocking anyone down or scaring anyone. No one can even see her. The top of the bag and one side has black mesh so she can breath but really can not be seen. No one has ever even known I had her with me.

I had big dogs for years and never took them anyplace like that. I never wanted too for fear of infringing on others. However, since they don't even know jasmine is in the purse, how can I be a nuisance.

I was offended when we used to go to the lake all the time and even though there were signs all over the beach there was always someone who would have some huge dog that was pooping and peeing on the sand and they would take them in the water where my children and I was swimming. Sorry, but I don't want to swim with a huge dog no telling when he had a bath last. I wouldn't take Jasmine in a lake or pool where people were swimming and she has a bath once a week and smells better than a lot of people. I just wouldn't want to offend anyone with my dog.

I have also had these big dogs growl at kids that walked by and that made me mad. The kids were allowed on the beach, the dog was not. If I had a dog that did not like children I would not take it to a place where there were lots of children.

That's just my opinion and I respectfully value everyone else's. I am certainly not trying to be argumentative as I abhor conflict of any kind.

Very well said.

[BabyFidgette]

Originally Posted by BabyFidgette

I'm not trying to sound mean to you, but people are allergic to a lot of things other than dogs, i.e. peanuts. People who are allergic to dogs do what? Sneeze, get itchy eyes? Big deal. I'm on Allegra D every day of my life. I've never heard of a person having an anaphylactic shock over a dog. Now..people die from peanut allergies. Does that mean you are not going to keep peanut M&Ms in your pocket for fear that someone will die if they get a whiff of them? I highly doubt it. Now, once again, please don't twist words around...I am not saying dogs should or shouldn't be allowed in public places. I am stating that a dog allergy is not a big deal. But, I'll admit. I can't be wrong. I have been once or twice in my life.

It should say, But, I'll admit I CAN be wrong. Not can't. DUH!

[cajungal]

I work at Sears in the mall. And there was a lady the other day with her yorkie shopping by the washers and dryers. Nobody said a word. I slept in Sears with my yorkie Lacey after Hurricane Andrew while waiting for a generator. I guess they allowed her since it was a natural disaster. There was no way I was going to let her suffer any longer in a hot house with no airconditioning. We were without power due to the hurricane for over a week. Another couple also had there yorkies running around. And someone else had a potbellied pig in the store. Once I got kicked out the gas station for holding Lacey in my arms while I tried to pay for my gas. I was bringing Lacey to the vet. She had kidney failure and had to go 3 times a week for fluid treatments. I was not going to let her sit in the sweltering 90 degree heat in the hot car in her condition. So, I had to make useless trips back and forth since they would not allow me in the store with her.