Puppy selection question.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by deonk1

My last yorkie had 3 separate severe health conditions all of which the vet told me were genetic. I had thought I did my research and was wrong. I also knew the owner of his sibling and half sibling and they all had serious issues, they also died far too young.

While the parents of this guy are all tested she offered it as a comfort more than anything. The breeder has a full health guarantee, but for me I will feel better knowing we checked as much as we could first. This test checks for 200+ markers.

If you are referring to something like the embark test only a few of those actually work in yorkies which is one of the reasons I have not gotten it done. You can’t do the liver testing until 16 weeks either so the breeder won’t be able to do that test. Here is a link to the recommended tests that should be done before breeding https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=YT

[deonk1]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

If you are referring to something like the embark test only a few of those actually work in yorkies which is one of the reasons I have not gotten it done. You can’t do the liver testing until 16 weeks either so the breeder won’t be able to do that test. Here is a link to the recommended tests that should be done before breeding https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=YT

It is the embark test but the breeder one that she's doing not the owner one. Im curious about it not working on Yorkies as my understanding is they are always updating the database. I had run it by my friend who used to be a vet tech and she didn't see any issues with.

Re the liver test I've never heard anything about age on that, my vet tech friend was the one who suggested that is the most important one. I'd like some more information on that if you have it.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by deonk1

Yeah I'm a lawyer so I have reviewed the contract with a fine tooth comb... the baby doll thing is not something she breeds for. it was her best way to describe the shape of head and was sent via text. We chatted today and turns out they both now have the same shaped head this week anyway.

Just the breeder using the term is odd to me, but hey, it's your money, your choice and your puppy; and I hope he is healthy and you have many wonderful years with him.

Good that you reviewed the contract but major concern to me is relying on a vet tech for information. If I were you, before you totally commit, I would take a long look at the tests you say the breeder has done on her breeding pair. It could save you money....and heartbreak in the future. Often the congenital things that these pups get don't show up until later in life.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

If you are referring to something like the embark test only a few of those actually work in yorkies which is one of the reasons I have not gotten it done. You can’t do the liver testing until 16 weeks either so the breeder won’t be able to do that test. Here is a link to the recommended tests that should be done before breeding https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=YT

I would not even consider getting a puppy from a breeder who didn't do the OFA testing.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by deonk1

It is the embark test but the breeder one that she's doing not the owner one. Im curious about it not working on Yorkies as my understanding is they are always updating the database. I had run it by my friend who used to be a vet tech and she didn't see any issues with.

Re the liver test I've never heard anything about age on that, my vet tech friend was the one who suggested that is the most important one. I'd like some more information on that if you have it.

The thing about Vet techs is the majority are not certified and learn and train on the job. While they are very important they don’t always know everything. I took vet assistant classes and still knew more then some of the techs I have had at vet offices in the past.

Liver test. The liver test should not be done before 16 weeks because bile acid concentrations may be falsely lower in puppies under 16 weeks.

The embark test. While they say they can test for a huge amount of genetic markers science has not found that many genetic markers in every breed and probably are adding numbers that are not accurate and correct. You have to keep in mind that they are trying to sell a product. Here is a link to what genetic markers can be found in testing for yorkies there are 16 and only 4 are health related. https://vgl.ucdavis.edu/breed/yorkshire-terrier?page=0 You also may want to take a look at complaints of the embark test by googling. I had an actual scientist tell me the test was a waste of money a few years ago.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by deonk1

It is the embark test but the breeder one that she's doing not the owner one. Im curious about it not working on Yorkies as my understanding is they are always updating the database. I had run it by my friend who used to be a vet tech and she didn't see any issues with.

Re the liver test I've never heard anything about age on that, my vet tech friend was the one who suggested that is the most important one. I'd like some more information on that if you have it.

This is a great read about liver disease in yorkies:

http://www.theyorkshireterrierclubof...re_9_16_13.pdf

[ladyjane]

Here are a couple of posts from a valued member of YT who is sadly no longer with us. I miss Phil SO much....he would have contributed to this thread.... maybe this will help even though it is from a few years ago:

https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4764985-post4.html

https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4765000-post6.html

[matese]

Originally Posted by deonk1

Here are the two side by side

OMGoodness they are just adorable.

[deonk1]

Yeah I couldn't pick, seeing they were identical on all other fronts. I let my boyfriend choose, he's never had a dog before so I let him have the final say.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

This is a great read about liver disease in yorkies:

http://www.theyorkshireterrierclubof...re_9_16_13.pdf

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Here are a couple of posts from a valued member of YT who is sadly no longer with us. I miss Phil SO much....he would have contributed to this thread.... maybe this will help even though it is from a few years ago:

https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4764985-post4.html

https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/4765000-post6.html

Sadly I’m not sure that our knowledge is wanted here……. Oh well we tried and that’s all we can do.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Sadly I’m not sure that our knowledge is wanted here……. Oh well we tried and that’s all we can do.

It was requested by the OP and given. I have learned so much in my years online and on this forum. There's often more going on than one knows and when sharing my experience i do so understanding that even if it isn't appreciated by one, it may help someone I don't even know. I've had so many people join this forum for the express purpose of thanking me or asking for more information.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

It was requested by the OP and given. I have learned so much in my years online and on this forum. There's often more going on than one knows and when sharing my experience i do so understanding that even if it isn't appreciated by one, it may help someone I don't even know. I've had so many people join this forum for the express purpose of thanking me or asking for more information.

Yep very true, I forgot sometime yt even comes up on google when certain things are searched.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Yep very true, I forgot sometime yt even comes up on google when certain things are searched.

I always think of that! It's good to keep in mind because if only one person learns it's a win. Education is the only way to stop the suffering of poorly bred dogs. Sometimes I feel like giving up because it seems hopeless and perhaps it is....but I keep trying for the dogs and people.

[deonk1]

I have read everything you've said. However, I've been balancing my own anxiety. I've already paid for the testing so there's no going back in that. If it works it works.

When I was looking for this breeder I called every breeder in Ontario, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. This is the only one of two that passed without major warning. The other moved back overseas before my name came up on the list. I spent the last two years watching for a rescue Yorkie with no luck. I cant fly further than that due to medical reasons and i knew a breeder who allowed shipping was a red flag, and I would never ship a dog in cargo. So I knew I needed to be able to go get him and fly him as carry on with me.

While I understand the baby doll face comments, I added it was a text message when I asked if they are still same size. We couldn't get video to work that week. She at no point used that term beforehand.

I have looked into the liver testing and haven't decided what to do with that. I usually talk to her on Wednesdays. I'll ask.

I understand everyone's desire to help but I'm at a loss what else to do in this situation. I've reached out to many references and even asked a few other breeders and she seems well respected and her dogs are healthy.

I don't know if she's done all of the OAF testing but I recognize some of the things on the list and we've discussed them.

I used to be a very active member when Harley was around and while I recognize the need to inform, every post I've posted this week has had a lot of negative tones and harsh comments. I appreciate the ones that provide links so I can do my own research. I was just very excited that my little guy is finally almost here and wanted to see if some of my old friends were still around here.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by deonk1

I have read everything you've said. However, I've been balancing my own anxiety. I've already paid for the testing so there's no going back in that. If it works it works.

When I was looking for this breeder I called every breeder in Ontario, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. This is the only one of two that passed without major warning. The other moved back overseas before my name came up on the list. I spent the last two years watching for a rescue Yorkie with no luck. I cant fly further than that due to medical reasons and i knew a breeder who allowed shipping was a red flag, and I would never ship a dog in cargo. So I knew I needed to be able to go get him and fly him as carry on with me.

While I understand the baby doll face comments, I added it was a text message when I asked if they are still same size. We couldn't get video to work that week. She at no point used that term beforehand.

I have looked into the liver testing and haven't decided what to do with that. I usually talk to her on Wednesdays. I'll ask.

I understand everyone's desire to help but I'm at a loss what else to do in this situation. I've reached out to many references and even asked a few other breeders and she seems well respected and her dogs are healthy.

I don't know if she's done all of the OAF testing but I recognize some of the things on the list and we've discussed them.

I used to be a very active member when Harley was around and while I recognize the need to inform, every post I've posted this week has had a lot of negative tones and harsh comments. I appreciate the ones that provide links so I can do my own research. I was just very excited that my little guy is finally almost here and wanted to see if some of my old friends were still around here.

You think the comments are harsh because you don't like what you are being told. There are SO many red flags but you don't want to see them. I said in an earlier post that I hope your puppy lives a long, healthy life and trust me I want that SO much and it very well may happen. Even bad breeders have puppies that are not sick. It is just the risk is higher when you buy from them. You are not uncommon.....everyone wants to be excited about getting a puppy. I get it, but it is not about a cute puppy ... it is a little life. I speak the truth as I see it and do NOT sugar coat when it is something as serious as puppies and people suffering because of bad breeding. I am not going to ignore what is blatant and tell you that your puppy is adorable because he IS adorable but that is not what this post was about. YOU asked for information about puppy selection!!
Am I saying the breeder you chose is bad....no, I have simply given you information to do with what you will. I lost a foster puppy a few months ago and it was one of the most tragic cases I have ever seen.....ALL due to bad breeding. I won't drag on about it here, but it was nothing short of horrific. She never had a chance. Liver shunt and necrotizing encephalitis. Some things with these pups you don't see at first....they crop up later. Most people don't see what I have seen. I can tell you this: if I had my life to do over, I probably would never have gotten involved in rescue. My heart has huge chunks that have been removed and I sometimes wonder if there is any more for them to take. It makes me sick to my stomach that people don't want to listen but I can't fix it...it is simply the suffering of the pups that I cannot stand.

You came here asking about puppy selection and you got the information you requested. That did not come off as "looking for old friends". My advice is to just get your puppy and share him with the forum. Everyone will love seeing him! This was about trying to help you choose.....I honestly don't think you wanted that help and thought you had already done your homework.

You don't have to listen to my or anyone else's' experiences. It is all your choice. If I think something is important, I share. Simple as that. I can only hope it helps some pup or some person.