Worried about spaying

[ladyjane]

As Chattiesmom said above, there is some research that shows some behavioral changes due to altering dogs. I have not read it and honestly don't know much about it...maybe I will ask Pstinard about this.

I found this link which is interesting. Even with this, though, there is no way I would leave a pup intact. I have seen too many die due to health issues related to not being altered.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ed-or-neutered

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

As Chattiesmom said above, there is some research that shows some behavioral changes due to altering dogs. I have not read it and honestly don't know much about it...maybe I will ask Pstinard about this.

I found this link which is interesting. Even with this, though, there is no way I would leave a pup intact. I have seen too many die due to health issues related to not being altered.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ed-or-neutered

I read up on this a while back for another thread on spaying and neutering. As I recall, the behavioral changes are minimal, especially for a spayed female. I'll look this up again tomorrow when I have access to research articles and will post more about it then.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by pstinard

I read up on this a while back for another thread on spaying and neutering. As I recall, the behavioral changes are minimal, especially for a spayed female. I'll look this up again tomorrow when I have access to research articles and will post more about it then.

Thanks, Phil!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

There really hasn't been any studies to prove it changes personality and at this time has been shown to be a myth. People tend to think it changes personalities because this is normally done as puppies when puppies personality's are changing and we are just starting to get to see their personality's. I'm not sure it takes their female or male traits away either. There again in small dogs is no study showing that it effects growth in fact I believe it was shared in another post that a study showed it did not effect small breeds growth by being spayed or neutered. Bones still close even after getting fixed. It's also not simply about stopping over population. Females get an increased risk for mammary cancer with every heat as well as an increased risk of poymentra with every heat which can kill them even if you get the emergency spay. Spaying is 100% better then not for females. With males not neutering increases their risk for prostate cancer and for their prostate to enlarge and cause big issues with going to the bathroom and also increases the risk to develop cancer after the prostate has enlarged. The only real thing spaying and neutering has show to effect personality wise is aggression.

I would like to add that I was a bit wrong with personality changes although any change is very little and normally just related to aggression (dominance) issues and then males wont want to roam as much in search for a mate. Those a generally the only personality issues.

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

There really hasn't been any studies to prove it changes personality and at this time has been shown to be a myth. People tend to think it changes personalities because this is normally done as puppies when puppies personality's are changing and we are just starting to get to see their personality's. I'm not sure it takes their female or male traits away either. There again in small dogs is no study showing that it effects growth in fact I believe it was shared in another post that a study showed it did not effect small breeds growth by being spayed or neutered. Bones still close even after getting fixed. It's also not simply about stopping over population. Females get an increased risk for mammary cancer with every heat as well as an increased risk of poymentra with every heat which can kill them even if you get the emergency spay. Spaying is 100% better then not for females. With males not neutering increases their risk for prostate cancer and for their prostate to enlarge and cause big issues with going to the bathroom and also increases the risk to develop cancer after the prostate has enlarged. The only real thing spaying and neutering has show to effect personality wise is aggression.

I have personal experience with spaying a very aggressive female yorkie and a dangerously aggressive male Irish Setter. The removal of the sex linked hormones in these two individuals mellowed both tremendously. The same holds through with aggressive stallions of which I have had much experience. Both neutering were at the recommendation of two different vets. I am NOT saying that neutering ALWAYS changes personality, only that in many cases it can and does.

Not sure if we know for a fact if the majority of dogs are neutered before hormones start to affect personality. Just wondering, are vets required by law to report all neuters and the age of the dog/bitch?

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I have personal experience with spaying a very aggressive female yorkie and a dangerously aggressive male Irish Setter. The removal of the sex linked hormones in these two individuals mellowed both tremendously. The same holds through with aggressive stallions of which I have had much experience. Both neutering were at the recommendation of two different vets. I am NOT saying that neutering ALWAYS changes personality, only that in many cases it can and does.

Not sure if we know for a fact if the majority of dogs are neutered before hormones start to affect personality. Just wondering, are vets required by law to report all neuters and the age of the dog/bitch?

Your views are anecdotal. There are too many variables. I don't think we can just point out our experiences as being proof of something.

I also have a lot of experience with spay/neuter and I don't think I could comment one way or the other about behaviors after

I look forward to seeing what Phil says about these studies that were done.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I have personal experience with spaying a very aggressive female yorkie and a dangerously aggressive male Irish Setter. The removal of the sex linked hormones in these two individuals mellowed both tremendously. The same holds through with aggressive stallions of which I have had much experience. Both neutering were at the recommendation of two different vets. I am NOT saying that neutering ALWAYS changes personality, only that in many cases it can and does.

Not sure if we know for a fact if the majority of dogs are neutered before hormones start to affect personality. Just wondering, are vets required by law to report all neuters and the age of the dog/bitch?

That is why I added I do think it can change aggression but in my opinion and what I have read and learned in my classes that is the only thing I have seen that has been a personality change. I'm not sure that it changes other personality traits. In my personal experience I have not seen it change anything else and I have also seen it not change aggression as well. Never saw a change in the dogs I grew up with who were spayed a bit later in life and I haven't see a change in mine that were spayed as pups but none of my dogs had any aggression issues.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

So, my views and personal experience are anecdotal and your views and personal experiences are not?
It is my understanding, per YT rules, that each member is allowed to post their personal experiences. Umm what does Dr. Phil have to do with the issue?

TO THE OP.... I am sorry for my part in taking your thread iff-topic. I sincerely hope that you got the reassurance you needed to proceed with the spay.

Phil has access to studies that we don't.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

So, my views and personal experience are anecdotal and your views and personal experiences are not?
It is my understanding, per YT rules, that each member is allowed to post their personal experiences. Umm what does Dr. Phil have to do with the issue?

TO THE OP.... I am sorry for my part in taking your thread iff-topic. I sincerely hope that you got the reassurance you needed to proceed with the spay.

What are you talking about?????

Do you know the definition of anecdotal? Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

From the above link:

"Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method."



We were talking about changes in personality and yes, that is your experience....but it is still not scientific, but anecdotal is ALL I was saying.
I never said that your opinion should not be posted.
I just was saying it is not scientific .. that is ALL.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

So, my views and personal experience are anecdotal and your views and personal experiences are not?
It is my understanding, per YT rules, that each member is allowed to post their personal experiences. Umm what does Dr. Phil have to do with the issue?

TO THE OP.... I am sorry for my part in taking your thread iff-topic. I sincerely hope that you got the reassurance you needed to proceed with the spay.

It is not Dr. Phil...at least not if you are talking about the celebrity. It is Pstinard (whose name is Phil) who has access to scientific studies and experience reading and interpreting them. He is a huge help to us here on YT with these types of things.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

So, is Dr. Phil a member and can we expect his opinions? Can't wait.

Your snark has been duly reported.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by pstinard

Your snark has been duly reported.

I just wanted to say that I value you as a member and I know others do as well and I am always thankful for your advise and the studies you take the time to look up and share.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I just wanted to say that I value you as a member and I know others do as well and I am always thankful for your advise and the studies you take the time to look up and share.

Thanks! I now realize, after an exchange of private messages, that there was a terrible misunderstanding. Apologies have been made and accepted, so it's all good. I'll report my findings tomorrow as promised.

[pstinard]

Rather than hijacking this thread, I started a new one here in the Yorkie Health and Diet section: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ring-dogs.html

[ladyjane]

Thank you, Phil!