Question for all the breeders on this list

[ZacharyDY]

P.S. LadyJane—I'm new, but not new. I've come to the forum and read posts off and on for a really long time; then I registered for a username, but didn't post for a long time. So, just new to posting.

[Scoobstersmom]

Originally Posted by ZacharyDY

P.S. LadyJane—I'm new, but not new. I've come to the forum and read posts off and on for a really long time; then I registered for a username, but didn't post for a long time. So, just new to posting.

Zachary, our definitions of a long time must be quite different. You said you registered for a name but then didn't post for a long time but your join date is Nov 2015. That's not very long.

Everybody starts out new but not everybody starts out being defensive.

Diana

[ZacharyDY]

Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom

Zachary, our definitions of a long time must be quite different. You said you registered for a name but then didn't post for a long time but your join date is Nov 2015. That's not very long.
Everybody starts out new but not everybody starts out being defensive.
Diana

I have been reading in the forum off and on for years, without registering. Then I registered, but did not post for while after I registered. Sorry for the misunderstanding; I will try to write more clearly...

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ZacharyDY

P.S. LadyJane—I'm new, but not new. I've come to the forum and read posts off and on for a really long time; then I registered for a username, but didn't post for a long time. So, just new to posting.

Well it says you joined this month.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ZacharyDY

I have been reading in the forum off and on for years, without registering. Then I registered, but did not post for while after I registered. Sorry for the misunderstanding; I will try to write more clearly...

Again, your join date is this month.

[SharonSnowbird]

Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom

My pup was a rescue that had been brought across the border from Mexico, so we sort of expected issues. She was only with the rescue for a few days, but she had been vet checked and deemed healthy. Still, I was a bit nervous about where she came from and have two other dogs, so I kept her isolated the first night and took her right to my vet the next day for my own peace of mind. She checked out fine. Perfect blood work, no parasites.

One week later she became very ill. Lethargic, vomiting, diarrhea. At that point she tested positive for Giardia. Giardia doesn't necessarily show in every stool sample. My vet seemed pretty positive that she'd had it all along and didn't catch it from my house. She could have picked it up from the rescue she was at for a few days, or she could have had it when she got there. Some dogs carry the parasite but never get sick so they never get tested or treated. Some have it a while then something causes a lowering of their immune system and then they get sick. Some get sick right away.

Sharon, I get it that you're angry. You paid top dollar for a pup and then found out she had a parasite. I was a little angry about my dog having it. I was a hassle that I didn't expect to have to deal with but in the big picture it was not that big of an issue. It's not Parvo or Rabies or liver shunt. It is just a parasite that many puppies get, not particularly life threatening. Didn't the puppy fly to you? She could have an overgrowth of the giardia from the stress of the plane ride. I think it's a risk no matter where you buy your puppy.

Diana

Hi Diana, well, actually I am not angry at all that Lacy has Giardia, sorry if it sounded like that, I understand these things can happen. It is definitely NOT a big deal, it is only a big hassle, with all the cleaning, etc. lol The reason I was asking questions is because I want to know IF some breeders tested for giardia before selling their pups. I want to know the answer to that question, and I still don't know, as not many breeders have responded as to whether they do test for it or not. Maybe most of them don't, and maybe that is perfectly acceptable. But I won't know the answer to that question unless I ask. It is not to put blame on anyone, I simply want to know for my next puppy purchase. Is it okay for me to ask the breeder that I want my puppy tested for giardia before I get her? Or is that unreasonable and something that I should do myself? I don't know the answer to that question. But I do know that I do not want to buy another pup unless he is tested for giardia first.

[Scoobstersmom]

Sharon, it's not unreasonable to ask anything you want to ask. It's your money you're spending to buy the puppy, and you should be able to ask all the questions you need to be comfortable with the purchase of the puppy. If a breeder doesn't want to answer, or doesn't want to comply with your wishes then that's a sign its not the right breeder/puppy.

The point I've been trying to make though is that even with the testing, its basically a crapshoot. A negative stool sample doesn't mean your puppy doesn't have giardia. It's a parasite that is difficult to isolate in a stool sample. It depends on what stage of development the cysts are in at the time the sample is checked. My pup tested negative for all parasites, and less than a week later she was extremely ill with lots of giardia cysts in her stool sample. Since the incubation period is 7 to 15 days, she obviously already had giardia when she tested negative the first time.

Treating my pup was a hassle, but it wouldn't stop me from purchasing another pup that may or may not have it. You had a bad experience with Lacy reacting negatively to the Panacur, but the negative reaction could have happened with any medication or even vaccinations. I had a pup that had a really bad reaction to vaccinations. That wouldn't stop me from vaccinating another pup. Stuff happens.

Diana

[SharonSnowbird]

I told the breeder that Lacy had Giardia, and she said none of her pups has Giardia. I told her that she needed to test them, because my vet's assistant said that if one pup has it, they will all have it. And PLEASE don't shoot me down or attack me for that remark, I did not make it, it came from my vet's office! Were they wrong?

I have not heard back from my breeder that she had her other pups tested and that they did not have it. So, if she did test them, and her other pups did not have it, I think she would have told me. So, maybe she hasn't tested the others, which I don't understand, as they MAY be sold with Giardia also.

[scrapindee]

Again I must be the odd breeder out here. But yes I do a fecal on my litters in week 11.5-12. If one puppy has it, the entire litter has it. My vet always completes an extensive health exam and certificate on my puppies.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by SharonSnowbird

Hi Diana, well, actually I am not angry at all that Lacy has Giardia, sorry if it sounded like that, I understand these things can happen. It is definitely NOT a big deal, it is only a big hassle, with all the cleaning, etc. lol The reason I was asking questions is because I want to know IF some breeders tested for giardia before selling their pups. I want to know the answer to that question, and I still don't know, as not many breeders have responded as to whether they do test for it or not. Maybe most of them don't, and maybe that is perfectly acceptable. But I won't know the answer to that question unless I ask. It is not to put blame on anyone, I simply want to know for my next puppy purchase. Is it okay for me to ask the breeder that I want my puppy tested for giardia before I get her? Or is that unreasonable and something that I should do myself? I don't know the answer to that question. But I do know that I do not want to buy another pup unless he is tested for giardia first.

I don't know that they necessarily need to test every puppy....BUT to say they don't know? Uh...kind of weird to me. The symptoms are clear cut and they know if their dogs they are breeding have been sick or not. And, IF they have giardia in their kennel, there is no way anyone can tell me that only ONE puppy has come out with it and only one owner told them.
I would say that once they have it, they should do their level best to get rid of it...and also inform the buyer that it IS possible for it to happen.
I suppose it would take a breeder to come along and comment on this one....

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom

Sharon, it's not unreasonable to ask anything you want to ask. It's your money you're spending to buy the puppy, and you should be able to ask all the questions you need to be comfortable with the purchase of the puppy. If a breeder doesn't want to answer, or doesn't want to comply with your wishes then that's a sign its not the right breeder/puppy.

The point I've been trying to make though is that even with the testing, its basically a crapshoot. A negative stool sample doesn't mean your puppy doesn't have giardia. It's a parasite that is difficult to isolate in a stool sample. It depends on what stage of development the cysts are in at the time the sample is checked. My pup tested negative for all parasites, and less than a week later she was extremely ill with lots of giardia cysts in her stool sample. Since the incubation period is 7 to 15 days, she obviously already had giardia when she tested negative the first time.

Treating my pup was a hassle, but it wouldn't stop me from purchasing another pup that may or may not have it. You had a bad experience with Lacy reacting negatively to the Panacur, but the negative reaction could have happened with any medication or even vaccinations. I had a pup that had a really bad reaction to vaccinations. That wouldn't stop me from vaccinating another pup. Stuff happens.

Diana

[SharonSnowbird]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I don't know that they necessarily need to test every puppy....BUT to say they don't know? Uh...kind of weird to me. The symptoms are clear cut and they know if their dogs they are breeding have been sick or not. And, IF they have giardia in their kennel, there is no way anyone can tell me that only ONE puppy has come out with it and only one owner told them.
I would say that once they have it, they should do their level best to get rid of it...and also inform the buyer that it IS possible for it to happen.
I suppose it would take a breeder to come along and comment on this one....

The pups might have JUST contacted the Giardai, and so the breeder was not aware of it and that is why she said that her pups didn't have it. I don't think she was lying, she just wasn't aware of it. I am sure she was surprised. But she hasn't said that she did a stool test on any of them since i told her that Lacy has it, and my vet said you only have to do ONE stool test on one puppy, because if one has it, they all have it. So I sure hope she tests one of them and gets them meds if they have it.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by SharonSnowbird

The pups might have JUST contacted the Giardai, and so the breeder was not aware of it and that is why she said that her pups didn't have it. I don't think she was lying, she just wasn't aware of it. I am sure she was surprised. But she hasn't said that she did a stool test on any of them since i told her that Lacy has it, and my vet said you only have to do ONE stool test on one puppy, because if one has it, they all have it. So I sure hope she tests one of them and gets them meds if they have it.

If that suits you, that's fine. I do hope whatever the case, she is finding out the cause and taking care of it.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

If that suits you, that's fine. I do hope whatever the case, she is finding out the cause and taking care of it.

All I can say is that the email you got tonight must have used this excuse about recent exposure (which is almost insulting in my mind but what does my mind know? LOL)...after all the other ones posted today didn't fly.

Again, as long as it suits you. I still stand by what I said...I would be doing further testing if she were my puppy. Just for my own peace of mind after all this nonsense..yes, nonsense. Just no way to sell puppies in my opinion. unless of course what I am reading has not been the full story. One never knows for sure on these forums.

[Scoobstersmom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

All I can say is that the email you got tonight must have used this excuse about recent exposure (which is almost insulting in my mind but what does my mind know? LOL)...after all the other ones posted today didn't fly.

Again, as long as it suits you. I still stand by what I said...I would be doing further testing if she were my puppy. Just for my own peace of mind after all this nonsense..yes, nonsense. Just no way to sell puppies in my opinion. unless of course what I am reading has not been the full story. One never knows for sure on these forums.

So I lost track of some of these posts. This Zachary person that has been posting is the breeder, on here posing as someone else - just an 'interested in Lacy' person. Right?

If that's the case, I would throw everything she said so far out the window, assume my pup came from a backyard breeder, and start from scratch. If she didn't have the courage or the pride to come on here and post as herself and stand up for what she believes in and believes is the truth, she is not a reliable person or one I would trust.

This is a great website and I have learned some really good stuff here, but some pretty nutty stuff happens here too. Sorry your breeder put you in this position, Sharon.

Diana