Am worried about Lacy!

[ZacharyDY]

As I went to bed last night, I thought "poor Lacy." Quite a startling thought since I have a lot on my own plate with 2 Yorkies and 1 Biewer, ranging from 2 to 7 pounds (all full grown).
Reflecting back on the thought this morning, I realized that poor little Lacy has been through so much in only a few short weeks. Just to cover a few events: Transfer from people-mom, puppy-mom, & siblings to new people-mom, new home, & no siblings; flying on an airplane; multiple vet visits; new schedule of eating, sleeping, playing; new pen, new bed, all new smells. Whew! I think I'd scream and howl if someone wanted me to play with toys or do anything but just BE.
There's a really nice post about raising a puppy and expectations at this link:
Raising a puppy: Expectations - DogForum.net | Dog Forums and Community
Many new-puppy guides advise "try not to overwhelm your new puppy with too much activity during this initial adjustment period"—by meeting family, friends, and taking him/her places—because it could be too stressful for your new puppy.
For over 40 years, I've had Westies, Yorkies, and Biewers—mostly Yorkies (and usually 2 and 3 at a time), only 3 would've made excellent, certified therapy dogs; almost all would've been good volunteer hospital/retirement-home visitors (where therapy-dog certification is not required)—and several did just that.
We can hide our frustrated, angry, disappointed feelings from friends and family, but not from our furry kids; they sense our feelings and react to these feelings in all different ways—may be "act-out" would be a better word to describe their responses.
We don't know who Lacy will be, but she will be GREAT...she will be LACY! If we let her BE.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by ZacharyDY

As I went to bed last night, I thought "poor Lacy." Quite a startling thought since I have a lot on my own plate with 2 Yorkies and 1 Biewer, ranging from 2 to 7 pounds (all full grown).
Reflecting back on the thought this morning, I realized that poor little Lacy has been through so much in only a few short weeks. Just to cover a few events: Transfer from people-mom, puppy-mom, & siblings to new people-mom, new home, & no siblings; flying on an airplane; multiple vet visits; new schedule of eating, sleeping, playing; new pen, new bed, all new smells. Whew! I think I'd scream and howl if someone wanted me to play with toys or do anything but just BE.
There's a really nice post about raising a puppy and expectations at this link:
Raising a puppy: Expectations - DogForum.net | Dog Forums and Community
Many new-puppy guides advise "try not to overwhelm your new puppy with too much activity during this initial adjustment period"—by meeting family, friends, and taking him/her places—because it could be too stressful for your new puppy.
For over 40 years, I've had Westies, Yorkies, and Biewers—mostly Yorkies (and usually 2 and 3 at a time), only 3 would've made excellent, certified therapy dogs; almost all would've been good volunteer hospital/retirement-home visitors (where therapy-dog certification is not required)—and several did just that.
We can hide our frustrated, angry, disappointed feelings from friends and family, but not from our furry kids; they sense our feelings and react to these feelings in all different ways—may be "act-out" would be a better word to describe their responses.
We don't know who Lacy will be, but she will be GREAT...she will be LACY! If we let her BE.

Yep, 'tis a shame the OP was apparently not given all this advice at the time of purchase. Perhaps would have saved a bit of stress for all.

Also, too bad the breeder denies any giardia. It can happen and the stress of traveling to a new home may have brought it out...but it was clearly from the kennel she came from. I seriously doubt this has not happened before with other of this breeder's puppies.

[ZacharyDY]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

hmmmmm
I am even more confused or LOL perhaps I am not. What is your interest in this puppy purchase? Seems you have a lot of "reasons" for what is going on with this purchase. Are you the breeder or a friend?

LadyJane: Thanks for asking. I became intrigued due to the "Am Worried About Lacy!" posts. Not ashamed to admit I care more about animals, than people—LOL; so I got sucked in to the poor-little-Lacy story, then went through and read all the posts. I do know of quite a few Yorkie and Biewer breeders, and related websites. My heart melts especially with these little ones. I just felt that Sharon was and is asking for information, and I thought I knew several sources for information or how to get it—just trying to be helpful.

[ZacharyDY]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Yep, 'tis a shame the OP was apparently not given all this advice at the time of purchase. Perhaps would have saved a bit of stress for all.

Also, too bad the breeder denies any giardia. It can happen and the stress of traveling to a new home may have brought it out...but it was clearly from the kennel she came from. I seriously doubt this has not happened before with other of this breeder's puppies.

LadyJane: I am finding some of the Giardia information challenging. The following information is from a Sheltie breeder website:

"However, as careful we are with our puppies, it must be understood that an infestation of Giardia (or Coccidia) can occur after a mere 48 hours in the puppy's new home that was NOT initiated here. That is why there is a 48-hour waiting period on the health insurance... if a puppy gets sick within 48 hours of going to his new home, the puppy came in contact with the illness while under the breeder's care... if the puppy gets sick after 49 hours or more, the puppy would have picked up the disease after leaving the breeder's care and property."

Some are saying that even after 49 hours, the puppy would have had the parasite while with the breeder. (I am not alleging that this comment necessarily applies in Sharon's case—but, rather, to other information posted here.)

[Scoobstersmom]

Zachary, this is a good (but technical) article on Giardia from vet med.

Untitled Document

Diana

[ZacharyDY]

Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom

Zachary, this is a good (but technical) article on Giardia from vet med.
Untitled Document
Diana

I really appreciate this link, Diana. Thank you. I was looking for a more definitive statement like this. I am still a bit confused since some "official" references state an incubation period of 48 hours or less. Maybe it's complicated because there are two variants: "Type A" and "Type B."

[Scoobstersmom]

Zachary, I would examine the source for those official references to an incubation period for giardia being 48 hours. Incubation period for giardia is 7 to 15 days, and even then the pup may not show signs of illness at that point. Giardia also may or may not show up in a stool sample, depending on what stage the cysts are in at the time the sample is checked.

I took in a little rescue toy poodle a couple of years ago. She was a pup that was brought across the border from Mexico and only at the rescue for a few days. She was vet checked by the rescue and deemed healthy. I brought her home and kept her isolated from my other pups. My vet saw her the next day. She had blood work done and also a fecal. Deemed healthy and no parasites but my vet advised me to still keep her isolated from my other dogs for a week or so since she'd come from Mexico. So she was kept in a small pen inside, and used a small ex-pen outside for potty. Near the end of that week, she got very sick. Lethargic, diarrhea, and vomiting. Back to the vet, where she had plenty of giardia cysts in the sample. She could have picked it up at the rescue, or more likely she came across the border with it.

It took three rounds of Panacur to finally get rid of it. It also took about 3 or 4 months. We did a round of Panacur. A week later the sample was clear. Two weeks after that, the cysts were back, so we did the Panacur again. Same thing, so we did a third round. My vet wants to see three clear stool samples before committing to it being gone. One a week after the meds, then two weeks after that, and three weeks after the second clear sample. Giardia can be very hard to isolate in a stool sample, depending on the stage of the cysts when the sample is checked. Even after three rounds of Panacur and all those clear samples, my vet says there is the possibility that she still has cysts. We have her checked at her annual, and she does some different "float" test looking for the cysts. So far, so good. Its been about two years now.

It's a nasty parasite for sure and my vet said she had a pretty nasty case, but she's worth every dime I spent on bleach and vet bills! And she was only actually "sick" with it for a few days. After that, she was an active, busy and playful little pup. We kept her isolated for potty trips out, were vigilant about picking up the poos and bleaching the area, and kept her very clean, but otherwise she ran around, played with our other dogs and no one - dog or human - caught it from her.

Diana

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Scoobstersmom

Zachary, I would examine the source for those official references to an incubation period for giardia being 48 hours. Incubation period for giardia is 7 to 15 days, and even then the pup may not show signs of illness at that point. Giardia also may or may not show up in a stool sample, depending on what stage the cysts are in at the time the sample is checked.

I took in a little rescue toy poodle a couple of years ago. She was a pup that was brought across the border from Mexico and only at the rescue for a few days. She was vet checked by the rescue and deemed healthy. I brought her home and kept her isolated from my other pups. My vet saw her the next day. She had blood work done and also a fecal. Deemed healthy and no parasites but my vet advised me to still keep her isolated from my other dogs for a week or so since she'd come from Mexico. So she was kept in a small pen inside, and used a small ex-pen outside for potty. Near the end of that week, she got very sick. Lethargic, diarrhea, and vomiting. Back to the vet, where she had plenty of giardia cysts in the sample. She could have picked it up at the rescue, or more likely she came across the border with it.

It took three rounds of Panacur to finally get rid of it. It also took about 3 or 4 months. We did a round of Panacur. A week later the sample was clear. Two weeks after that, the cysts were back, so we did the Panacur again. Same thing, so we did a third round. My vet wants to see three clear stool samples before committing to it being gone. One a week after the meds, then two weeks after that, and three weeks after the second clear sample. Giardia can be very hard to isolate in a stool sample, depending on the stage of the cysts when the sample is checked. Even after three rounds of Panacur and all those clear samples, my vet says there is the possibility that she still has cysts. We have her checked at her annual, and she does some different "float" test looking for the cysts. So far, so good. Its been about two years now.

It's a nasty parasite for sure and my vet said she had a pretty nasty case, but she's worth every dime I spent on bleach and vet bills! And she was only actually "sick" with it for a few days. After that, she was an active, busy and playful little pup. We kept her isolated for potty trips out, were vigilant about picking up the poos and bleaching the area, and kept her very clean, but otherwise she ran around, played with our other dogs and no one - dog or human - caught it from her.

Diana

Yes it is a problem to get rid of....imagine it in a kennel.

[SharonSnowbird]

Originally Posted by ZacharyDY

SharonSnowbird: I'm confused; if she was diagnosed on Tuesday, why did you wait until Friday to treat Lacy with the Panacur?

I got Lacy from the breeder late afternoon on Monday. On Tuesday I got a stool sample and put it in the fridge as was instructed. (So I had her less than 24 hours at this point.) I took the stool sample in on Wednesday morning. They called me on Thursday afternoon to tell me that she had Giardia and that she needed to be on medication, which I picked up the next day, as I could not get to the vet before closing that day. THAT is why she started Panacur on Friday!

As someone else also commented, you seem to be posting a lot of excuses and rebuttals to everything I say. And you say you just got caught up in the "Poor Lacy" story? Really??? Are you SURE you are not the breeder or a friend of the breeder posting under an alias? The breeder TOLD me she had read my posts, but she is not replying under her breeder name, so that leads me to wonder why?

And when I google "Zachary Duke of Yorkies", I can't seem to come up with ANY information.

[ladyjane]

I love Yorkie Talk. Some days I learn things...others I am amused. Today, both.

[Scoobstersmom]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Yes it is a problem to get rid of....imagine it in a kennel.

I don't even want to imagine it in a kennel.

Diana

[SharonSnowbird]

And Zachary, you have only been a member here for a very short time, and I checked out your posted messages, and it appears that you have posted EIGHTEEN messages and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is in response to different posts that I HAVE POSTED about Lacy. So, you have posted replies eighteen times to my messages, and you have not posted A SINGLE REPLY to anyone else's messages.

Hmmmmmm ........... doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

You say you got caught up in the "Poor Lacy" story, but you have also responded to my following posts:

Am worried about Lacy
Question about Bewiers
Question for all breeders on this list
Definition of true love

I find it very difficult to believe that you have just become interested in all OF my posts concerning Lacy, especially when you are a very new member. You seem to have a HUGE interest in all of this, and are trying to find excuses for everything that has happened. And also trying to suggest that I did not give Lacy her medication soon enough. If you are Kathy, why don’t you post as Kathy?

Just a short while ago, I posted this following message:
I wondered why all breeders don’t put together an information booklet that includes all the important info. like what to feed, how much, when next shots are due, and all the important info a new owner should know.

And just a few minutes ago, you emailed me and said quote “When I gave you the health record for Lacey , it was written when she needed her second and third shot. Also when she was wormed.” Unquote

So you are obviously reading all of my messages on YT.

And yes, you are correct about that, I sincerely apologize, I missed seeing the two dates on the record for when her next two shots are due, and so did the vet, as the vet said she only needed one last shot.

You know, if you are Kathy, I sure wish you would post as Kathy. You have not been upfront with me at all from the beginning, and now it appears you are posting messages under the name of Zachary. You told me at the airport that you had read my messages, so why not reply to them as Kathy and not as someone else?

Any my last question for you is, WHY on earth would you not tell me about feeding all the pups chicken feet and telling me that is what my little girl died from, UNTIL AFTER you gave her to me at the airport? And why would you bring the little boy that was supposed to be mine to the airport when he was obviously very sick??? Both of those are unconscionable. If you had told me how my little girl had died, and knowing my little boy was very sick, and that Lacy #2 had eaten chicken feet also, I may not have wanted to buy her. Is that the reason you kept it all secret from me until I flew to the airport and got her?

[SharonSnowbird]

The reasons I was so worried about Lacy on Friday when she got extremely agitated, is because I thought it was either from the meds or possibly she had some chicken feet lodged in her intestines also. When I told the vet about the chicken feet, he said we could do an X-ray, at the cost of around $600. or so. So maybe I should get that done to ensure I won't have a problem with her in the future. It already cost me over $300. for the emergency vet visit on Friday. But I love Lacy and I will do everything possible to keep her safe and healthy.

[scrapindee]

Sharon,

I do have about a 30 page booklet that I give to my puppy buyers. Every breeder is different as to what they give their puppy buyers.

I have never in 11 years of breeding heard about the 48 hour incubation for Giardiasis. I will say I have heard that stress can bring it on. Also never heard that insurance keeps you waiting 48 hours.

Hopefully the Girardia is only temporary.

[SharonSnowbird]

Originally Posted by scrapindee

Sharon,

I do have about a 30 page booklet that I give to my puppy buyers. Every breeder is different as to what they give their puppy buyers.

I have never in 11 years of breeding heard about the 48 hour incubation for Giardiasis. I will say I have heard that stress can bring it on. Also never heard that insurance keeps you waiting 48 hours.

Hopefully the Girardia is only temporary.

Thanks, Dee, that is awesome that you give all new owners a booklet, I sure wish all breeders would do that, it would be extremely helpful to those of us who have absolutely no experience raising a puppy.

And Lacy was not stressed on the plane ride back home at all, or that night. The middle seat was empty, so I put her crate up on the seat, unzipped the top, and was petting her the entire way back. She seemed perfectly content. And when we got home, I cuddled her for a couple of hours and the last half hour, she was licking my face and seemed very happy, safe, and content. We bonded very fast. And not once did she cry the entire night, and has not cried once at night since I got her, which tells me that she feels safe and certainly has shown no signs of stress in the least, other than when she was put on the Panacur meds.