What is Best food for a yorkie?

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by Britster

Unless your dog does way better on Beyond than Fromm.

I LOVE Fromm as a company but their formulas in their "four star grain free" line are actually subpar IMO. I do like a few of their formulas. But Jackson has never done all that well on most of the formulas we've tried from them which is a shame, I always wanted him to. But I can't deny what works. Champion isn't really my 'favorite' company, they do shady things too, but again can't deny Jax does the best on their foods.

So how is Fromms sub par?? Homemade is the best better then any kibble. Kibble is the lowest form of food. All processed. But Fromms put out good foods May not be the best but far from sub par.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I agree completely. I too am happy for rx diets. But anything in a bag or can can be simulated as a home cooked option. I had this experience last year. It amounted to almost harassment by my vet to the point I had to have my husband intervene because my blood pressure went up every time I went to the vet. It is always on the claimed "I believe in this food" approach by the vets as they thumb through the Rx diet manual. They can fool most people but I quickly realized that my more detailed questions couldn't be answered. I have gone a year without stones in my dog without an Rx food so it can be done. I also don't need someone rubber stamping how I spend my $ or giving me an ulcer when I spend it. I could go on and on about vet "maintenance" fees and the lack of real justification but I will keep my cynicism to myself!

Good for you for standing up for what you just *knew* in your heart/head was best for your dog. Sometimes, we just know better...despite what a vet may think. It sucks when your vet is causing your bp to go up and that you have to stress over going, ugh.

I think it's just amazing what you've done w/ out the stones for a YEAR now! NOW, if you could just go ahead and find a solution for Wylie's recurrent skin infections...so that I could say "it's been a year" - that would just be great .

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Here's what we decided to go with and why:

Background: 3 small dogs. An old yorkie(unknown age), a young mix(guessing 2 1/2 yo yorkie head and colored, shih tzu body, hair and tail), a miniature pomeranian puppy(papered champion line).

Given the debates and disputes on higher protein, crystals in the kidney, grain free vs not, corn vs no corn, varying ages, unknown histories, and current conditions of our dogs, ect... We opted for something in the middle. A food that seems to be a quality food but isn't a grain free(referring to the kibble selection), it is in the brand's quality line though same as their grain free selections.

I placed high on my list of importance certain regulated terms, as well as other items:

1) "Formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages."

Three dogs varying life stages! As some will point out if I don't write this, this term does not mean they have completed the "feeding trial" with AAFCO. It also doesn't mean they haven't.

2) "Complete and Balanced", that's an FDA regulated term. A food that doesn't pass one of the two requirements can not use it anywhere in their packaging or advertising.
?Complete and Balanced? Pet Food

Kibble, left down for them to eat whenever they so choose, so they never want for anything at any time: Fromm Four-Star Nutritionals, Duck and Sweet Potato. "Complete and Balanced Nutrition for dogs of all ages" which automatically means:
"To have "complete and balanced" in the nutritional adequacy statement, a dog food must either:

Meet one of the Dog Food Nutrient Profiles established by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) or
Pass an AAFCO feeding trial."

Canned, given to our dogs at specified meal times with chicken bits because Mamma is a softy: Fromm Gold Duck and Chicken pate'. Also AAFCO compliant for all stages which qualifies it for, you guessed it, "complete and balanced".

I'm not a nutritionist, I rely on the manufacturer to get the balanced nutrition in the bag or can. I'm relying on 95%+ positive reviews from consumers, FDA and AAFCO compliance and regulations. I'm relying on an ingredient list that sounds good, gives me the warm fuzzies. 3-4 separate probiotics in the ingredient list of the kibble(I'm not a scientist either). I'm relying on the lack of any recall that I can find on their product. I love Fromm's long lengthy history and recommend any one already using it to read it if you're into that sort of thing.
Our History - Fromm Family Foods

I'm new to the Fromm line. I'm looking forward to using them from here on out because their formulas are matched up closely enough to switch from one formula to the next, kibble to canned, with out much concern for a transition period. A little variance in formula from year to year or month to month can only be good thing over the long term a decade down the road.

Fromm isn't locally available in many places. I opted for deliveries from chewy.com for reasons I stated in an earlier thread.

There are lots of good quality foods out there! Choose a few, research them, make your own decision.... The term "BEST" is arbitrary and subject to opinion and criticism. I opted for a feed that doesn't have active controversial ingredients as best as I could figure out. Our three boys seem to really like it so far, fingers crossed!

Side note on the pate' and slightly humorous and gross at the same time: I do taste the foods that I feed our pups, from the taste of the pate', if I were to add salt, onion and garlic powder it would make a wonderful spread I suspect! Anyone want to come over for dinner?

One correction above, it's not a miniature pomeranian, just pomeranian. He sure is fun! Rambo because of his black hair and fearless attitude. The boy really struts on our walks.

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

So how is Fromms sub par?? Homemade is the best better then any kibble. Kibble is the lowest form of food. All processed. But Fromms put out good foods May not be the best but far from sub par.

This almost sounds like satire from the "kibble quibble" thread. Home made is not necessarily the best--it really depends on whether it is balanced and nutritious. And kibble that has met AAFCO guidelines is NOT the "lowest form" of food. The lowest form of food is any food that doesn't supply the proper balance of protein, fat, carbohydrates, fiber, vitamins, minerals, etc., etc., and kibble is fully capable of being well balanced. The "processing" makes the nutrients more biologically available, especially the carbohydrates.

I do agree that Fromms is capable of making food that is not sub-par.

I really thought we were over presenting statements of opinion as though they are facts.

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by Britster

Unless your dog does way better on Beyond than Fromm.

I LOVE Fromm as a company but their formulas in their "four star grain free" line are actually subpar IMO. I do like a few of their formulas. But Jackson has never done all that well on most of the formulas we've tried from them which is a shame, I always wanted him to. But I can't deny what works. Champion isn't really my 'favorite' company, they do shady things too, but again can't deny Jax does the best on their foods.

Absolutely agree! It's what the dog does best on that is the most important...

I'm glad to hear your opinion of their grain free, cause I selected a 4 star kibble that is NOT grain free. LOL The canned we purchased is grain free, for our old fart.... but Mamma is feeding it to all of them cause she is a softy! Months ago, Gucci, our old guy didn't care for the grain free kibble samples, but we have 3 pups now and Gucci mostly eats canned so I revisited Fromm. I'm hopeful it'll work for them but we are new to the line. So far so good!

My aim in selecting the grain inclusive formula was to avoid for a bit the "hot" feed, the controversy around the higher protein. Looked at so many different brands and feeds that I couldn't even quote or site any numbers right now. I wanted the same brand in canned and kibble since all here eat from each other's bowels(they all have their own but you know how that goes). I think it was Fromm that makes a claim that transitioning from one to the other of their products is easier on the pups and that's a factor in my decision as well.

I know absolutely nothing about the Champion brand. Glad to hear Jackson does well on it!

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

So how is Fromms sub par?? Homemade is the best better then any kibble. Kibble is the lowest form of food. All processed. But Fromms put out good foods May not be the best but far from sub par.

Might be the analysis numbers.. been a while since I looked, I think they were below Orijen and others... which, because of the stones and crystal info, I like that they were lower. For us people, if we eat too much rich food, we'll end up with health issues further down the road. I suspect it's the same with dogs, sounds like it.

Don't knock my kibble choice, LOL, and I won't knock the problems that can easily occur with home cooking... LOL Kibble is a nice convenience, all of their nutrition should be in there if the manufacturer has done a good job. It doesn't spoil when left out for hours or days at a time. It's better for their teeth. "Lowest form of food", well, I can think of much lower, spoiled human food, fatty table scraps, a Big Mac! LOL Feeding a canned dog food with out a frequent oral care regimen, brushing, would be far worse than kibble.

So maybe Brit and you just both used the wrong phrases, a poor choice of words, I don't know, easy to do. If Brit truly meant "subpar", he wouldn't have stated the desire to use Fromm, "LOVE" the company, the disappointment when Jackson didn't do well on it. Thinking back though, when you say kibble is the lowest form of food, I think you mean it. I think you are wrong. So that's just a place where you and I can agree to disagree, and, that is ok! We're passionate about our pups. I want mine to be healthy and so do you.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Might be the analysis numbers.. been a while since I looked, I think they were below Orijen and others... which, because of the stones and crystal info, I like that they were lower. For us people, if we eat too much rich food, we'll end up with health issues further down the road. I suspect it's the same with dogs, sounds like it.

Don't knock my kibble choice, LOL, and I won't knock the problems that can easily occur with home cooking... LOL Kibble is a nice convenience, all of their nutrition should be in there if the manufacturer has done a good job. It doesn't spoil when left out for hours or days at a time. It's better for their teeth. "Lowest form of food", well, I can think of much lower, spoiled human food, fatty table scraps, a Big Mac! LOL Feeding a canned dog food with out a frequent oral care regimen, brushing, would be far worse than kibble.

So maybe Brit and you just both used the wrong phrases, a poor choice of words, I don't know, easy to do. If Brit truly meant "subpar", he wouldn't have stated the desire to use Fromm, "LOVE" the company, the disappointment when Jackson didn't do well on it. Thinking back though, when you say kibble is the lowest form of food, I think you mean it. I think you are wrong. So that's just a place where you and I can agree to disagree, and, that is ok! We're passionate about our pups. I want mine to be healthy and so do you.

As you know, my boys eat primarily kibble but I disagree that it is better for their teeth than other foods. Based on casual observation, I believe even cooked meats (we use steamed chicken) provides enzymes that prevent and break down tartar/calculus on the teeth -- like the enzyme toothpastes.

This is one of the arguments advocates of raw meat make, but I believe even steamed meat helps.

As many sources have joked, humans eating crackers will not necessarily have cleaner teeth than humans who eat other foods (taking brushing and dental care out of the equation).

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Might be the analysis numbers.. been a while since I looked, I think they were below Orijen and others... which, because of the stones and crystal info, I like that they were lower. For us people, if we eat too much rich food, we'll end up with health issues further down the road. I suspect it's the same with dogs, sounds like it.

Don't knock my kibble choice, LOL, and I won't knock the problems that can easily occur with home cooking... LOL Kibble is a nice convenience, all of their nutrition should be in there if the manufacturer has done a good job. It doesn't spoil when left out for hours or days at a time. It's better for their teeth. "Lowest form of food", well, I can think of much lower, spoiled human food, fatty table scraps, a Big Mac! LOL Feeding a canned dog food with out a frequent oral care regimen, brushing, would be far worse than kibble.

So maybe Brit and you just both used the wrong phrases, a poor choice of words, I don't know, easy to do. If Brit truly meant "subpar", he wouldn't have stated the desire to use Fromm, "LOVE" the company, the disappointment when Jackson didn't do well on it. Thinking back though, when you say kibble is the lowest form of food, I think you mean it. I think you are wrong. So that's just a place where you and I can agree to disagree, and, that is ok! We're passionate about our pups. I want mine to be healthy and so do you.

Kibble is the lowest for of food for dogs. I believe it. Of course McDonalds is worst. You can get all the nutrition you need from good food. You can fortify you own foods. Theres all kinds of recipes out there. U don't need vitamins if you eat healthy. Theres such a thing as to much. Homemade only goes bad if you free feed with it. Its easy to do also. I don't free feed. But I also feed 3 meal and one will be kibble. Just so they will always eat it. So it depends on whos study you read also. Some say one feeding a day for adult dogs is actually better for there digestive system. Liver. it doesn't spend all day working. I dunno. But I know one thing. The indicator of healthy eating comes from inside out = healthy skin, hair , no eye goobers ,teeth ect.. Kibble being better for there teeth many say its not true. But doesnt matter to me because I brush there teeth everyday. But even saying all that all comes from genetics also. So maybe my dogs just have good genetics and I think what I'm doing is right?? Really none of it matters as long as you/we /all try our best to keep the dogs healthy. And for sure don't give them a Supersize fry all to themselves. Then wonder why there dog has Pancreatitis.

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by pstinard

This almost sounds like satire from the "kibble quibble" thread. Home made is not necessarily the best--it really depends on whether it is balanced and nutritious. And kibble that has met AAFCO guidelines is NOT the "lowest form" of food. The lowest form of food is any food that doesn't supply the proper balance of protein, fat, carbohydrates, fiber, vitamins, minerals, etc., etc., and kibble is fully capable of being well balanced. The "processing" makes the nutrients more biologically available, especially the carbohydrates.

I do agree that Fromms is capable of making food that is not sub-par.

I really thought we were over presenting statements of opinion as though they are facts.

Why I say kibble is the lowest form of food it because it still overly processed foods. Like I've said many time I still feed meals with kibble. But fresh food will trump any processed food. Man or beast. If you an athletic you can take all the supplements you want but you just end up over working your liver. I know many ppl who have liver problems. Theres such a thing as to much.

[ironmike86]

Maybe I don't know nutrition for dogs But for ppl yes I do. I use to be College Wrestler and had to maintain a lean muscular weight in the lighters for my body could handle. And have enough energy to run through a brick wall. It still applies to my job now. At 50yrs of age I watch all these young kids fall out because or there poor eating habits , lack of exercise all the energy drinks pop ect Yet the old man keeps going. That why they call me the OLD Beast leader of the Rat pack....kinda makes me upset when they talk about my dogs so I work them harder .But just my opinion no Scientific facts. Just life experience.

[ironmike86]

Military men know mre are suppose meet all the required nutritional value. Kibble maybe the se
But there are very few ppl I know who can stomach mre without having some sort of issue. Food should constipation u or give you other problems in the long term

[pstinard]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

Military men know mre are suppose meet all the required nutritional value. Kibble maybe the se
But there are very few ppl I know who can stomach mre without having some sort of issue. Food should constipation u or give you other problems in the long term

MRE's are the kibble of the human food world .

For what it's worth, my Bella is doing very well on a 100% kibble diet, so that's good enough for me.

[ironmike86]

Originally Posted by pstinard

MRE's are the kibble of the human food world .

For what it's worth, my Bella is doing very well on a 100% kibble diet, so that's good enough for me.

Sure that all that matters. Just when ppl get into "Kibble"wars. As long as the company is reliable and makes a good product.. I still feed kibble. But I still feel chicken in chicken form,Salmon in fish Form ect is still healthier. Why I think meats and other ingredients that go for a balanced diet is better. I eat healthy. I watch what I eat. But I still "Cheat". I'm one of those ppl if I eat well I will stay there. If I don't I will eat bad,drink to much ect..All out no moderation. All or none for me.....but I still cheat I'm weak

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

Really none of it matters as long as you/we /all try our best to keep the dogs healthy. And for sure don't give them a Supersize fry all to themselves. Then wonder why there dog has Pancreatitis.

And, that's where we agree 100%!

[Britster]

Originally Posted by ironmike86

So how is Fromms sub par?? Homemade is the best better then any kibble. Kibble is the lowest form of food. All processed. But Fromms put out good foods May not be the best but far from sub par.

Their grain-frees are very "meh". Not meat heavy, more based on peas, legumes, pea protein, etc. Great company, just don't like a lot of their supposedly 'better' formulas. I'd feed the grain inclusive lines from them now instead of the GF. But like I said personally my dog just doesn't do that well on their foods.