Unsure about Lepto shot

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I am not swayed in favor of the lepto vaccine given the statistical information about it, which must be weighed against the fact that there are a lot of reactions to the vaccine, especially in toy breeds which are not well quantified. It makes it easy for vets to claim that reactions are "anecdotal" along with the fact that vaccines are still big business for vets. There is almost always going to be a justification for a vaccine, but there may be more than one justification for not giving it all the same. I have personally been on both sides of this having done the lepto vaccine and now no longer doing it.

I had a dog come up positive for one strain of lepto a few years ago and really pondered the decision about vaccination. My vet said this to me, I'm copying and pasting: We only carry the separate lepto vaccine for 4 serovars. I would be happy to try to reach Dr. (Specialist Name) to discuss further prior to vaccination. I am not a fan of that vaccine unless really needed. We do see more reactions to it.

Here is a consensus statement from the ACVIM on leptospirosis and it has some good info to ponder.

2010 ACVIM Small Animal Consensus Statement on Leptospirosis: Diagnosis, Epidemiology, Treatment, and Prevention

Thanks for that. I checked this link out and it was very useful but I think there have been some subsequent advances made which negate some of the points due to the changes mentioned above re: reduction and alteration of the vaccination since this was published in 2010.


Still, it's good to balance the pros and cons with available information. I would perhaps suggest that someone look up more recent research or ask the vet for assistance in this area. They are very good at providing research as, again, this is part of the their job to stay on top of these things.

[OwnedByJezebel]

My cousin is a large animal vet and he caught Lepto. It was really nasty.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

Thanks for that. I checked this link out and it was very useful but I think there have been some subsequent advances made which negate some of the points due to the changes mentioned above re: reduction and alteration of the vaccination since this was published in 2010.


Still, it's good to balance the pros and cons with available information. I would perhaps suggest that someone look up more recent research or ask the vet for assistance in this area. They are very good at providing research as, again, this is part of the their job to stay on top of these things.

The vaccine in Europe may not be the same. I dont know that I agree that vets stay on top of things. They're generalists and I've had at least half a dozen not so great vets who've fed me lots of misinformation.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Maximo

If I recall correctly, the vaccine only covers about 4 strains and there are hundreds. Of course, many strains are more prevalent then others, but for me the risk of side effects outweighed the benefits of coverage. Also, there is some question on how often the vaccine needs to be given to be effective. Some sources believe every 6 - 8 months. Taking that and my boys' lifestyle into account, I choose not to give it.

Lepto does scare me though. It can enter through the nose and eyes. An infected dog can shed it peeing anywhere.

Edit to add: many dogs here on YT do fine with the vaccine.

I totally agree. $$$ for the vet twice a year to pump up my little dogs with a vaccine that doesn't cover my state's emerging strains that cause the most cases. No thanks.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I totally agree. $$$ for the vet twice a year to pump up my little dogs with a vaccine that doesn't cover my state's emerging strains that cause the most cases. No thanks.

I totally agree that geography should be taken into consideration. From the research you posted above, I bolded the following from the research which supports my vets views:


How Effective Are Vaccines Against Canine Leptospirosis? Do They Prevent Development of the Carrier State? What Is the Duration of Immunity after Vaccination?

Current vaccines appear to effectively prevent disease resulting from experimental challenge and to a large degree prevent shedding caused by the serovars in the vaccine. They also protect for at least 12 months.21,78,h Currently available bacterins elicit serogroup-specific immunity, but partial immunity to heterologous serogroups has been documented in some studies.80,130–132 Naturally occurring canine leptospirosis has been reported after vaccination with bivalent serovar Icterohaemorrhagiae and Canicola vaccines.20 The panel is unaware of leptospirosis in dogs that have been fully vaccinated with 4-serovar vaccines, but published data are lacking regarding the incidence of naturally occurring leptospirosis in such dogs. This may partly relate to the difficulty in definitively diagnosing leptospirosis in fully vaccinated dogs.
Go to:
What Adverse Effects Might Be Associated with Vaccination for Canine Leptospirosis?

Concern has been raised regarding the development of anaphylactoid reactions in dogs after leptospirosis vaccination, especially small breed dogs, although such reactions may occur in any breed. There is anecdotal evidence from veterinarians and industry that the prevalence of these reactions is decreasing, and may be similar to the rate induced by vaccines for other pathogens. In a study of acute vaccine reactions in dogs utilizing a large database, vaccines containing leptospiral antigen were no more reactive than other vaccines for dogs.133

Go to:
When Should Vaccination Be Recommended for Prevention of Canine Leptospirosis?

Annual vaccination with 4-serovar vaccines is recommended for at-risk dogs, regardless of breed, with the understanding that the definition of “at-risk” may vary geographically. In geographic locations in which infection occurs in urban, backyard dogs, all dogs may be at risk, and the vaccine may be considered part of a core vaccination protocol. In other locations, only dogs that contact wildlife, swim, hunt, or roam on farmland may be at risk.





In short, the reactions are reduced, the vaccines are affective and further reading shows that there are a lot of States in the US where Lepto is still a problem. This takes me back to the point that a conversation should be had with the vet re: this type of research and how relevant it is to an individuals situation.


To the OP: Your vet is a scientist who is informed in vaccinations as treatment and prevention. I would have a conversation re: what they think the risks are for Lepto in your area and make a decision on this basis.


The types of research articles above are very useful but have to be read in full and considered in alignment with your situation and vet advice. I really wouldn't worry about it too much. Although there are reports of reactions (which are not to be dismissed), this paper and my own vet (in September 2014) suggests that contraction of the disease is far more serious than any current vaccination reaction risk.


At the end of the day, it's your dog and your decision! We all decided that we made the best decisions with the info we had to hand and all of our dogs are safe and healthy - which is great.

[SirTeddykins]

Sorry, meant to add above that the research above also supports your views re: taking geography into consideration when making a decision about the necessity of this vaccination.


My mind and typing fingers are too fast for me, sometimes!


I also notice there are some typos but hope you all will forgive my haste

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Maximo

If I recall correctly, the vaccine only covers about 4 strains and there are hundreds. Of course, many strains are more prevalent then others, but for me the risk of side effects outweighed the benefits of coverage. Also, there is some question on how often the vaccine needs to be given to be effective. Some sources believe every 6 - 8 months. Taking that and my boys' lifestyle into account, I choose not to give it.

Lepto does scare me though. It can enter through the nose and eyes. An infected dog can shed it peeing anywhere.

Edit to add: many dogs here on YT do fine with the vaccine.

ZoE's vet says basically the same. You need two shots per year to be fully covered, it only covers a few of the strains of Lepto, and reactions to the shot are higher in small breeds. He gives you the information (he's all about educating his clients) and lets you make the choice for your pup. I choose not to have ZoE get it. It's marked on her file. He said should it be contracted it is treated with a routine antibiotic, and he knows I'm an alert pup parent and won't hesitate to go see him or the ER vet as needed at the first sign of a problem, so he's completely fine with not administering it. (I'm paraphrasing him, but that's the gist of it.)

[GabyM]

HUGE thank you to all of you for giving me all the info I needed! I was hesitant but I'd rather be safe than sorry. He will get the vaccination when he is age appropriate and I will make sure they administer it alone without any other vaccinations at the same time.
I have small kids and if he ever does contract lepto, it would be a huge risk for my kids to get it and i cant have that. I will have discussion with my vet about administering benadryl beforehand as well and I will stick around the office afterwards to make sure he is ok. What I am most afraid of is him going into anaphalactic shock! That scares me! So I will do everything I have to do.
I researched my area (chicago) regarding lepto and there was a huge epidemic in 11/2014, recently, so I have to do it, you just never know.
Thanks again everyone! You all have been so helpful and I am grateful!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by GabyM

HUGE thank you to all of you for giving me all the info I needed! I was hesitant but I'd rather be safe than sorry. He will get the vaccination when he is age appropriate and I will make sure they administer it alone without any other vaccinations at the same time.
I have small kids and if he ever does contract lepto, it would be a huge risk for my kids to get it and i cant have that. I will have discussion with my vet about administering benadryl beforehand as well and I will stick around the office afterwards to make sure he is ok. What I am most afraid of is him going into anaphalactic shock! That scares me! So I will do everything I have to do.
I researched my area (chicago) regarding lepto and there was a huge epidemic in 11/2014, recently, so I have to do it, you just never know.
Thanks again everyone! You all have been so helpful and I am grateful!

Anaphylactic shock is rare, but we do have a member who lost her dog due to the distemper vaccine from anaphylactic shock. The dog needs lepto twice a year for the vaccine to be effective and again it only covers 4 of the 100s of strains. To me, not worth it, but I understand the other side. This is a tough one - I was on the fence for a while . Good luck!

[GabyM]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Anaphylactic shock is rare, but we do have a member who lost her dog due to the distemper vaccine from anaphylactic shock. The dog needs lepto twice a year for the vaccine to be effective and again it only covers 4 of the 100s of strains. To me, not worth it, but I understand the other side. This is a tough one - I was on the fence for a while . Good luck!

Now I am rethinking my decision on doing it. 4 strands is not alot of protection against it. I wonder if the 4 strains are the most common type...

[maxdog]

After reading this thread and googling about 10 articles on the subject, I am not going to give this vaccine to Max & Sasha. Other than walks through the sub and playing in the yard, they do not have any exposure to this disease. IMO, the risks outweigh the benefits.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by GabyM

Now I am rethinking my decision on doing it. 4 strands is not alot of protection against it. I wonder if the 4 strains are the most common type...

I haven't read up on the most common strains seen in hospitals in quite a while, but my guess is that the larger hospitals and emergency clinics are seeing the cases. They'll know what strains are in your area and whether vaccination makes sense. For me, when I looked at our area, the disease they were seeing would not have been covered by the lepto vaccine. i would get more info from your local sources and make the most informed decision you can. My two older dogs had the lepto vaccine every year until about age 8 without any reactions. But I stopped doing it as I said because of the lack of efficacy of it in our area.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by maxdog

After reading this thread and googling about 10 articles on the subject, I am not going to give this vaccine to Max & Sasha. Other than walks through the sub and playing in the yard, they do not have any exposure to this disease. IMO, the risks outweigh the benefits.

This is like my dogs' lifestyles. I don't even let them out when it's raining and keep my yard neat. I try to keep the yard unattractive to wild life. It's not 100% but we don't run through streams or woods so I feel it's a low risk overall for my dogs.

[dawn27]

Mine were on it for several years due to our frequent camping tirps. We never had any issues with it. I would highly suggest that if you live in an area where there are feral animals (raccoons, opossum etc) that you treat your pups.

[Lovetodream88]

My mom had a goat get it so we vaccinate. Even if it doesn't cover all of them I would rather have the protection of some then none. Really scary illness.