Using a spray bottle of water while training aggressive behavior, good or bad method

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I don't usually agree with using training aversizes such as squirting water or loud pennies in a can in training as those tactics can cause trouble for a fearful/nervous/anxious dog but I often just use physical touch or standing down the dog as the mother or alpha dog uses on a misbehaving pack member, which will usually stop a dog from whatever misbehavior they are engaged in.

How? By getting their focus off the thing they are barking at or alerting on and back onto you and recognizing that you are the one dispensing firm but gentle, natural discipline. I want my dog to know I'm the one disciplining him - not some spray bottle or electronic burst of zapping coming from some unknown source. That can crate a sense of anxiety in a dog - thinking he could get that squirt or zap anytime.

And a dog doesn't necessarily always associate the sensation with the misbehavior that preceded it - maybe he associates the squirt or zap with something else - such as being outside or seeing other dogs coming near him and begin to fear those things. He needs to know that while mommie loves him more than anything, she also stops any behavior she disagrees with herself. And you know what? Dogs loves someone else to be in charge of them!

Touch the dog suddenly on its side/flank with your extended three fingers to distract it. Or you can place your hand in claw-like fashion over the back of the neck and hold, all the while putting one foot in front of the dog and holding him there as you say "Quiet", "Stop", "No", or "Enough", "Uh oh"(I usually reserve the "uh oh' phrase for training situations and the "No" for a dog that's been trained to know the meaning of the word) and staying there until the dog stops the wild barking or improper behavior and the very instant he does, hands off and back away - all the while keeping direct eye contact on the dog and stand there until the dog turns away, sits/lies down and gives up on its behavior.

The moment the dog gives it up, you look away but bear in mind and be prepared, the dog may just resume the previous bad behavior and if so, you can instantly use this as another teachable moment - repeat one of the two above actions right then and each time the dog re-offends for a few sessions and then remove the dog from the area of offense as dogs' attention spans for training are short.

Short, frequent sessions of this training will soon tell the dog that any behavior it engages in that you disagree with, such as wild barking or getting wildly excited over anything that's going on in the area or room that causes him to go ballistic will ALWAYS bring your instant, personal, firm but gentle discipline and you will stand there over him until he gives it up. He'll come to know that you are far more determined than he is and get the message.

You must not ever frighten, scare or hurt him during discipline or you will lose him to wanting and trusting you as his leader. All you need to do is merely just firmly stop his bad behavior with your physical presence, physical touch, no-nonsense manner and he will in time learn that you always step in and stop him and he will eventually begin to police himself and not start the behavior or catch himself before he escalates. In time, whatever word you use as you distract him, he will begin to associate that word alone with stopping the behavior and you won't need to physically stop him anymore - just make stern eye contact and get his attention using your word.

I really like this one!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Have to disagree that spritzing won't make a dog fearful of water as spritzing some anxious, fearful dogs in the face has made them afraid of the person doing the spritzing, the feeling of water in their eyes, on their bodies, nervous around the spray bottle and anything that spritzes or sprays so that anytime one takes out the thing they associate with the spritzing causes them to shake, pant, bark or run and hide. When a dog is fearful or anxious, his reactions are not typical and often don't make sense to us but they don't always associate the water or the noise of pennies in a tin can with their misbehavior but with the person administering it or other things going on at the time they got squirted or heard the noise they don't like.

But why suddenly spray a dog in his face from a water bottle held over his head or subject him to odd, sudden, often-scary sounds if he is are already acting out, tense, nervous, anxious or unsure of you or his surroundings, other dogs, etc.? There are far more kinder, natural, positive association and repetitive ways to train dogs than surprising them with aversives in the face or in their ears when we can use positive-reinforcement training, distraction, desensitizaton and natural discipline when they are truly misbehaving? And as consistent reaction to the dog's misbehavior is what pays off fastest and since most of us don't walk around with spray bottles or penny-filled cans anytime and every time a dog is misbehaving, using our own hands, body attitude, eyes and words works anytime and anywhere if we take the time.

And bear in mind that most who regularly obedience train their dogs using positive reinforcement methods on a consistent and continuing basis ever have any type of lingering behavioral issues. Obedience train your dogs on a continuing basis and you will find you rarely need to discipline him in any way.

No doubt spray bottles and other aversives work well for some dogs but most dog trainers now lean away from that older method of training dogs as we learn and use training methods that work best for all ranges of dog personalities, including those tending toward anxiety, insecurity, fear and panic, rather than taking the chance of making a dog more insecure and anxious than many of them already are.

As pet ownership climbs to ever greater heights, there are more and more dogs than ever in living in human households in the world today, many of them troubled with anxiety, insecurity and fear issues, and thankfully, dog training has evolved to help accommodate dogs with those issues, be they rescues, toy dogs like Yorkies or whatever.

Still, when all is said and done, there are many ways to train a dog and all usually work well for some trainers and their dogs and may be used as long as the method is humane and doesn't hurt, intimidate, scare the dog or heighten his insecurities.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

I really like this one!

Thanks, Mark!

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I'm curious what kind of cans and how many pennies y'all are using? When we are talking about adult dogs it's much harder and in a lot of cases just not possible. Sometimes it can even be related to anxiety and in those cases training isn't going to help.

An aluminum soda can should work just fine, I'd recommend 27 pennies.

LOL

The atomic weight of the aluminum in a penny!

Yep, dogs, some of them have such severe problems that a tremendous amount of effort must be used to correct their behavior.

I'm a big fan of positive reinforcement myself. Happy Happy, Joy Joy around my little Gucci Monster! "HE" deserves it!

[shelbysmom]

The spray air can and the pennies didn't help us, Ali just barked at them. She isn't afraid, she is MAD. The spray bottle works for us at home. When we are out walking and strangers are coming I tell her to "leave it" and she is catching on, doesn't even look at some people and rarely barks. Her barking is just the irritating puppy looking for attention type but it needs to stop. Sometimes I have to get down and force her to look at me and tell her to leave it or stop.


If it's a skateboard or motorcycle forget it, nothing works

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

An aluminum soda can should work just fine, I'd recommend 27 pennies.

LOL

The atomic weight of the aluminum in a penny!

Yep, dogs, some of them have such severe problems that a tremendous amount of effort must be used to correct their behavior.

I'm a big fan of positive reinforcement myself. Happy Happy, Joy Joy around my little Gucci Monster! "HE" deserves it!

Yeah that makes a lot more noise then just kids playing......

[matese]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I don't usually agree with using training aversizes such as squirting water or loud pennies in a can in training as those tactics can cause trouble for a fearful/nervous/anxious dog but I often just use physical touch or standing down the dog as the mother or alpha dog uses on a misbehaving pack member, which will usually stop a dog from whatever misbehavior they are engaged in.

How? By getting their focus off the thing they are barking at or alerting on and back onto you and recognizing that you are the one dispensing firm but gentle, natural discipline. I want my dog to know I'm the one disciplining him - not some spray bottle or electronic burst of zapping coming from some unknown source. That can crate a sense of anxiety in a dog - thinking he could get that squirt or zap anytime.

And a dog doesn't necessarily always associate the sensation with the misbehavior that preceded it - maybe he associates the squirt or zap with something else - such as being outside or seeing other dogs coming near him and begin to fear those things. He needs to know that while mommie loves him more than anything, she also stops any behavior she disagrees with herself. And you know what? Dogs loves someone else to be in charge of them!

Touch the dog suddenly on its side/flank with your extended three fingers to distract it. Or you can place your hand in claw-like fashion over the back of the neck and hold, all the while putting one foot in front of the dog and holding him there as you say "Quiet", "Stop", "No", or "Enough", "Uh oh"(I usually reserve the "uh oh' phrase for training situations and the "No" for a dog that's been trained to know the meaning of the word) and staying there until the dog stops the wild barking or improper behavior and the very instant he does, hands off and back away - all the while keeping direct eye contact on the dog and stand there until the dog turns away, sits/lies down and gives up on its behavior.

The moment the dog gives it up, you look away but bear in mind and be prepared, the dog may just resume the previous bad behavior and if so, you can instantly use this as another teachable moment - repeat one of the two above actions right then and each time the dog re-offends for a few sessions and then remove the dog from the area of offense as dogs' attention spans for training are short.

Short, frequent sessions of this training will soon tell the dog that any behavior it engages in that you disagree with, such as wild barking or getting wildly excited over anything that's going on in the area or room that causes him to go ballistic will ALWAYS bring your instant, personal, firm but gentle discipline and you will stand there over him until he gives it up. He'll come to know that you are far more determined than he is and get the message.

You must not ever frighten, scare or hurt him during discipline or you will lose him to wanting and trusting you as his leader. All you need to do is merely just firmly stop his bad behavior with your physical presence, physical touch, no-nonsense manner and he will in time learn that you always step in and stop him and he will eventually begin to police himself and not start the behavior or catch himself before he escalates. In time, whatever word you use as you distract him, he will begin to associate that word alone with stopping the behavior and you won't need to physically stop him anymore - just make stern eye contact and get his attention using your word.

Excellent training advise, thank you, but this is sorta hard when you have a pup on it's hind legs like a little stallion and pawing at the air. Keep in mind, this is a 3 y/o adopted pup that I have 10 months now, althogh I think I know him pretty good, there are still things I am learning about him. When Cody gets into his Cujo mode he hears nothing, and has nipped at me more then once (which I have pretty much stopped that) while he is in this very embarrassing frenzy if I were to touch him he would snap at me, not to bite me, momma, but to stop who ever / whatever is trying to prevent him from getting at what he is in a frenzy over, which is another dog. I usually pull him away from what is causing this. This extreme action happened only once several weeks ago while I was at the vets office. Lots of dogs coming and going while I waited outside because there were just to many dogs in the waiting area. This was the day I said he needs help, I need to get help for him. This method of yours is excellent for me if, it is a one on one dog situation, and I will try it out if it happens on a leash walk. I have a vet visit coming up soon, many dogs, seems Cody gets all worked up. I hope many ppl visit this thread and saves your training advise. Thank you very much.

[matese]

Originally Posted by Teresa Ford

As a trainer I use a spray bottle. BUT, I do not approve of what that trainer did. I would never bait a dog to fight.

I'm not happy about this either, this minipin is such a scared lil fellow. I fear the minipin will feed off Cody's bad behavior. the 2nd and 3rd session the MP paid no attention, he was so focused on his owner and her commands. In order to see Cody's behavior you need a dog, no other dog, no bad behavior from Cody. How else can you train a dog to not approach another dog with aggressive behavior. While the MP was doing his commands my trainer had me walk past the MP keeping 20 feet distance between us, on the walk back past the MP I had to close the gap to appox 10 feet, the 3rd pass was apox. 5 or 6 feet that's when Cody would pull on his leash, I don't think Cody wants to fight. Before a session starts there are 3 chairs set in the middle of the training area, they are in a triangle form , we are about 15 feet apart from each other. The trainer can see Cody's face, she said he just stares at the minipin or if they have the border collie on the floor Cody will stare at him or both dogs. The trainer said dogs take staring as a sign of aggression. I think Cody stares because he has never been so close to other dogs. I don't think his perv. owner allowed him near any dog, so he's curious about them and does not know how to approach them. I am not a dog whisper, I am upset. If Cody was a fighter he had his opportunity when I met with my friend that has the pug. Cody just growled,no pulling, no lunging, just growling until the little pug was so far behind his daddy's legs there was no more leash left for the pug to go further away. But Cody's tail was wagging all the time and his body was relaxed, not tensed up like ready to fight.

[Graneet]

Unfortunatly boo was a non barker but princess taught him Pinnes dont work for me. I have a bark collar on princess but she wont hush. She got shocked and hard she yipped and shook. I DO NOT LIKE THAT. Sooo gonna try sqirt bottle. Cannot see her so scared. They have several levels but she goes full force. I cannot do that to her its got to hurt her. I thought it was so mild it only shook them now. I put it on and off cause its so big on her neck. WILL NOT USE IT on my little guy no way. So water it will be.

Another thing how do you keep from being tense when your dog is going mad. I dont want to have her hurt another dog. So yep i tense up have to pull her back.

[MarkFromSea]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Yeah that makes a lot more noise then just kids playing......

Wouldn't know, never used one... you only asked how to make one.

My little buddy responds to a single clap, if all else fails to gain his attention. That's to keep him from crossing into the street from our front yard, taking off to greet a person or dog at the park if he is off leash...... just to gain his attention. Since I've used it in positive interactions of praise as well, he never considers it a bad thing.

[chachi]

Sometimes people take things too far though and I think that needs to be noted on here. One time a member was putting bitter apple in the spray bottle and spraying it in the dogs face. You shouldnt be doing anything to hurt the dog you should only be using the spray bottle or can of change to divert the dogs attention from barking or whatever behavior you want to stop you want to cause them to pause not hurt

[Graneet]

Im a senior not able to jump up quick and catch them to put two fingers on them even more so with two going at it. For now i tell them enough. But if a dog is near forget it. My 3 year old is lunging barking and of coarse now my 6 month olsd yorky is going at it to now. So thought the water would work. I have used it and it helped for a second. Trouble mine are so stuborn myfloor gets drowned. At a loss of what to do.

[matese]

Originally Posted by Graneet

Im a senior not able to jump up quick and catch them to put two fingers on them even more so with two going at it. For now i tell them enough. But if a dog is near forget it. My 3 year old is lunging barking and of coarse now my 6 month olsd yorky is going at it to now. So thought the water would work. I have used it and it helped for a second. Trouble mine are so stuborn myfloor gets drowned. At a loss of what to do.

That's what happens when you have one with a bad habit, I could never understand why they could learn the bad from each other but never the good things lol. At one time I had 3, all 3 years apart, only one was a barker, my middle one, when I got the 3rd, she picked up on the barking lol. Walking 2 lunging critters and trying to control them is a challenge. At times I have my hands full trying to control one. Thing is, Cody does not get leash walked much I have a big back yard, and does not get to see many dogs where I live. Very few ppl walk their dogs, so when he does see them say in Pet Supplies or another Pet store, he gets over excited starts barking. At the last vet visit was the first time he got totally out of control. I have no need to discipline at home, no need to spray bottle, he obeys my commands, it's when he is outside his house, to many distractions for him. He shuts down and all his attention is on the other dog. I need to get him someplace everyday to enforce his training when is hard to do, I have to travel 30 miles to get any where dogs will be. Good luck with your 2

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by MarkFromSea

Wouldn't know, never used one... you only asked how to make one.

My little buddy responds to a single clap, if all else fails to gain his attention. That's to keep him from crossing into the street from our front yard, taking off to greet a person or dog at the park if he is off leash...... just to gain his attention. Since I've used it in positive interactions of praise as well, he never considers it a bad thing.

Then how can you say they shouldn't be fearful of it and that it's no louder then children playing?

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by chachi

Sometimes people take things too far though and I think that needs to be noted on here. One time a member was putting bitter apple in the spray bottle and spraying it in the dogs face. You shouldnt be doing anything to hurt the dog you should only be using the spray bottle or can of change to divert the dogs attention from barking or whatever behavior you want to stop you want to cause them to pause not hurt

Yeah I think one person was putting vinegar in it when it was talked about awhile ago.