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YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Everyone Please Read: Going Forward, We Must Post With More Respect Toward Others (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/277068-everyone-please-read-going-forward-we-must-post-more-respect-toward-others.html)

yorkietalkjilly 07-17-2014 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4466439)
You have no idea what someone's intent is. The best you have is your interpretation of their intent. And it's that interpretation that causes the strife.
Again, I have to disagree. You pretty well know when someone calls your post or position in a discussion "ridiculous" or "so ignorant I can't even process it" or or telling them they are a bad dog owner/breeder, don't love their dog, etc., clearly shows the intent of that poster to express themselves to the other member in a less than civil manner when there are other ways to respond with your own points of view just as vehemently but without any intent to disparage the other member. If someone tells me something I've just posted is "ridiculous", I pretty well know that other person has purposefully left the discussion and turned the thread toward a flat-out argument with me personally or they would have bothered to have replied in a more reasonable way.

yorkietalkjilly 07-17-2014 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466635)
Like I said, people should mind their own business. It's real simple to just report a post like the one you just used....and let the mods and/or admin handle it. The problem is NOT the person who said it....the real problem starts when others try to tell that person how wrong they are.

As for intent.....who cares what the intent is? Not something we should be judging constantly....I don't think we really know it .. not REALLY. People just think they do. Irregardless, what is it with people who chomp at the bit here to correct others?

Someone said this some time ago...I think it was Lynzy and it was great:

"Post and let post"......just like "Live and Let Live"
The intent to one-up or belittle another is usually what starts the arguments - and shouldn't really be part of any adult lively discussion. Just sticking to the points and keeping it real is all that's necessary. I'm the last one to stop a good debate but hate to see them turn into one-line zingers and hateful back-and-forth's that go on for pages. What is the good of that?

lisaly 07-17-2014 05:41 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with Jeanie. It's not difficult to figure out intent.

Ann and the administrators do a great job in creating a very positive atmosphere on YorkieTalk. I have no interest in policing or moderating here, but for those of us that have a vested interest in YT, who really care about this community, find it difficult to sit back and repeatedly see people hurt. I don't like seeing any discord, but I also find there are times that it's necessary to speak up for what we believe is right.

megansmomma 07-17-2014 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4466618)
I heartily disagree. For example, someone posts something like "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and furthermore, don't ever post on my thread again!!!" about something someone else just posted, the intent of that poster to be nasty or ugly in their reply is pretty clear, at least to me. One can disagree with a another person's statements without being so disagreeable. The desire of a poster to one-up another poster or belittle them in some way usually starts the big problems on threads that drone on and on with zingers and put-downs and replies something like I've used as an example are usually how it starts.
First off, IMO this is inappropriate and shouldn't have been said in the first place because it is moderating a thread. It's like little kids shoving each other in the back of the minivan while on vacation. Poke, poke poke.....until mom and dad have to step in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466635)
Like I said, people should mind their own business. It's real simple to just report a post like the one you just used....and let the mods and/or admin handle it. The problem is NOT the person who said it....the real problem starts when others try to tell that person how wrong they are.

As for intent.....who cares what the intent is? Not something we should be judging constantly....I don't think we really know it .. not REALLY. People just think they do. Irregardless, what is it with people who chomp at the bit here to correct others?

Someone said this some time ago...I think it was Lynzy and it was great:

"Post and let post"......just like "Live and Let Live"
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I've reported posts before that I felt were out of line, inappropriate or even spam. Some were deleted and others were not. It's not our job to tell anyone how to post. If the mods or admin do not like something that is said they can decide for themselves what is acceptable and what is not.

107barney 07-17-2014 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466664)
I wholeheartedly agree with Jeanie. It's not difficult to figure out intent.

Ann and the administrators do a great job in creating a very positive atmosphere on YorkieTalk. I have no interest in policing or moderating here, but for those of us that have a vested interest in YT, who really care about this community, find it difficult to sit back and repeatedly see people hurt. I don't like seeing any discord, but I also find there are times that it's necessary to speak up for what we believe is right.
This is exactly the type of post that causes discord in my view. On the one hand you're commending the mods for the "positivity" of the forum yet on the other are suggesting that your perception of others being *hurt* requires you to speak up (polite police) against this crime. How about the feelings or hurt of the people you speak up against? They deserve admonishment from those who see themselves as being without any faults? Why not just report any post that breaks a rule or offer some thought of one's own instead of overstepping the mod, who as you said, does a great job without our help. I don't think anyone knows anyone else's intent. One cannot read a tone into a text unless one puts it there. I don't know why some feel it is necessary to speak up when the little triangle can be pushed and the moderator can fairly and competently use her real power to decide the fate. If one really cares about the YT community they should leave the police tasks to the authorities and only report crimes (broken rules) rather than nuisances (not enjoying someone's posting style).

lisaly 07-17-2014 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 4466675)
This is exactly the type of post that causes discord in my view. On the one hand you're commending the mods for the "positivity" of the forum yet on the other are suggesting that your perception of others being *hurt* requires you to speak up (polite police) against this crime. How about the feelings or hurt of the people you speak up against? They deserve admonishment from those who see themselves as being without any faults? Why not just report any post that breaks a rule or offer some thought of one's own instead of overstepping the mod, who as you said, does a great job without our help. I don't think anyone knows anyone else's intent. One cannot read a tone into a text unless one puts it there. I don't know why some feel it is necessary to speak up when the little triangle can be pushed and the moderator can fairly and competently use her real power to decide the fate. If one really cares about the YT community they should leave the police tasks to the authorities and only report crimes (broken rules) rather than nuisances (not enjoying someone's posting style).
You are inferring things from my post that you know little about and then use words like polite police. Being vesting in a community and caring about how people feel are important values for me; I won't infer what's important to you. One can have great knowledge but be ineffective at communicating it if people aren't able to feel support. You can post as you see fit, and I will post as I do within my own value system. If the moderators and administration have a problem with my posting, I will happily take their input to heart. Until then I will continue to speak up for those ideologies and people that I wish to support.

Rhetts_mama 07-17-2014 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466692)
You are inferring things from my post that you know little about and then use words like polite police. Being vesting in a community and caring about how people feel are important values for me; I won't infer what's important to you. One can have great knowledge but be ineffective at communicating it if people aren't able to feel support. You can post as you see fit, and I will post as I do within my own value system. If the moderators and administration have a problem with my posting, I will happily take their input to heart. Until then I will continue to speak up for those ideologies and people that I wish to support.
If people would adhere to that instead of taking it upon themselves to tell others how or what to post, much of the discord here would go away. The little triangle to the left is the best way to deal with posts you feel are out of bounds. A post deleted by the mods shuts down a spiraling thread much faster than telling someone they are rude or ineffective.

You also stated that Cathy inferred things from your post. Isn't that exactly what you are doing when you say that you can tell someone's intent?

107barney 07-17-2014 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466692)
You are inferring things from my post that you know little about and then use words like polite police. Being vesting in a community and caring about how people feel are important values for me; I won't infer what's important to you. One can have great knowledge but be ineffective at communicating it if people aren't able to feel support. You can post as you see fit, and I will post as I do within my own value system. If the moderators and administration have a problem with my posting, I will happily take their input to heart. Until then I will continue to speak up for those ideologies and people that I wish to support.
And nor do you know anything about me to infer what my values are. I will indeed continue to post as I seem fit, within the rules of YT, without telling others how to post or infer what their core values are. One can also have great knowledge AND be effective despite what others perceive that efficacy to be. I personally think that people can speak for themselves. I think more of people's capabilities than to believe that I should speak up for them. I would rather arm them with information and allow them to speak for themselves
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." -- Chinese Proverb.

ladyjane 07-17-2014 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4466640)
The intent to one-up or belittle another is usually what starts the arguments - and shouldn't really be part of any adult lively discussion. Just sticking to the points and keeping it real is all that's necessary. I'm the last one to stop a good debate but hate to see them turn into one-line zingers and hateful back-and-forth's that go on for pages. What is the good of that?
Sorry, but not buying this intent stuff. Too many people assume things and you simply cannot always tell what a person's intent is in the written word. None of us are mind readers and everyone has a different style.

I think it is time for people to start showing more respect and I don't mean the people who you all are thinking have ill intent. I think everyone here needs to think about it.....this is not a one way street here.

ladyjane 07-17-2014 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466664)
I wholeheartedly agree with Jeanie. It's not difficult to figure out intent.

Ann and the administrators do a great job in creating a very positive atmosphere on YorkieTalk. I have no interest in policing or moderating here, but for those of us that have a vested interest in YT, who really care about this community, find it difficult to sit back and repeatedly see people hurt. I don't like seeing any discord, but I also find there are times that it's necessary to speak up for what we believe is right.
Who are "those of us" ?? Do you think that only a few special people have a vested interest in YT?

While you are speaking of intent, let me just say that I think your intent in this post is to elevate yourself above others. I think that is exactly the root of the problem here and in any community. Different people with different ideas and never the twain shall meet.

ladyjane 07-17-2014 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4466697)
If people would adhere to that instead of taking it upon themselves to tell others how or what to post, much of the discord here would go away. The little triangle to the left is the best way to deal with posts you feel are out of bounds. A post deleted by the mods shuts down a spiraling thread much faster than telling someone they are rude or ineffective.

You also stated that Cathy inferred things from your post. Isn't that exactly what you are doing when you say that you can tell someone's intent?
:yeahthat:

megansmomma 07-17-2014 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466692)
You are inferring things from my post that you know little about and then use words like polite police. Being vesting in a community and caring about how people feel are important values for me; I won't infer what's important to you. One can have great knowledge but be ineffective at communicating it if people aren't able to feel support. You can post as you see fit, and I will post as I do within my own value system. If the moderators and administration have a problem with my posting, I will happily take their input to heart. Until then I will continue to speak up for those ideologies and people that I wish to support.
Here we go with the intent......IMO you are have weaponized your words by inferring that your value system is at a higher level than 107Barney who you quoted. This has happened in the past with myself as well where you quoted myself and 107barney and said:

Quote:
You speak your mind and always advocate for dogs. I respect that.

I thought this was a forum that we should feel free to speak openly. I was not trying to be moderator; I was just telling you how I feel.

We are not in a courtroom where we have to discredit someone to make a point. This is forum with real people who have feelings. We all have different views, and it's great that we can share them here.

You may feel this is all a crock, and that's your opinion. I live by a different set of rules. You say you are attacked here, and I guess it happens to everyone. If it's happening often, did you ever stop to think about why?

Everyone makes mistakes, and I can forgive that. Not taking ownership for them and trying to make amends is different, though.

You don't need to listen to anything I am writing. I don't wish to moderate anyone, and I really don't want a response. I rarely speak up, but when I see someone getting hurt, it's difficult to sit back without saying a word. If it were me, I'd want to know if I hurt someone. Sometimes I do it unintentionally, and I'm always glad to find out so that I can talk through things with the person I hurt.
What do you personally know about my set of rules, Cathy's set of rule or anyone else's? What exactly makes you the judge of this so called "set of rules" that you keep referring that you live by that are different than others? :confused:

lisaly 07-17-2014 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466705)
Who are "those of us" ?? Do you think that only a few special people have a vested interest in YT?

While you are speaking of intent, let me just say that I think your intent in this post is to elevate yourself above others. I think that is exactly the root of the problem here and in any community. Different people with different ideas and never the twain shall meet.
You are incorrect about my intent. You will never find me saying I'm better than anyone else, because it's simply not true.

"Those of us" is a general statement. I couldn't answer any other way because it's anyone that's vested in this community.

ladyjane 07-17-2014 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466715)
You are incorrect about my intent. You will never find me saying I'm better than anyone else, because it's simply not true.

"Those of us" is a general statement. I couldn't answer any other way because it's anyone that's vested in this community.
Well, you just proved what we have been saying....you cannot always tell a person's intent by reading their writings. I said that "I think" which is how your words were interpreted by ME, the person reading them. Now, what makes you think that if you read MY words, you know MY intent?

The way you used "those of us" sent me a message that you felt you were in an elite group that some of us may not be in.

Rhetts_mama 07-17-2014 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466664)
I wholeheartedly agree with Jeanie. It's not difficult to figure out intent.

Ann and the administrators do a great job in creating a very positive atmosphere on YorkieTalk. I have no interest in policing or moderating here, but for those of us that have a vested interest in YT, who really care about this community, find it difficult to sit back and repeatedly see people hurt. I don't like seeing any discord, but I also find there are times that it's necessary to speak up for what we believe is right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466715)
You are incorrect about my intent. You will never find me saying I'm better than anyone else, because it's simply not true.

"Those of us" is a general statement. I couldn't answer any other way because it's anyone that's vested in this community.
So , if its easy to judge intent, then am I to think that your statement about anyone vested in the community is meant to imply that those who post in a way you find objectionable are not vested in the YT community? The use of the term "those of us" also implies an "us against them" mentality.


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