Yes, she admitted to her mistake that's good. That doesn't make it okay though, it doesn't get her off that easily. We take these dogs into our home to give them love and make sure they are well cared for. That didn't happen, and because of that the dog is suffering and can't take care of the puppies. We don't really know if the puppies will even survive, the dog had to undergo a major surgery as an emergency. We just don't let these things happen, it doesn't matter how remorseful we are in the end, how would YOU feel if you were in the dogs fur? ( or shoes, if you put shoes on them...) not very good.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Actually no the Admin does,can and may ban you from being a member of the forum. That is why we have rules to follow. Such as no personal attacks or name calling. But what happens to your ability is not up to me. It is up to the Admin.


Sometimes when things on the forum make us very angry,it is a good time to close ones computer and find something else to take up our time. Until one can cool off and speak in a civil manner.

Just to be clear - snarky, attacking, and utterly mean-spirited comments ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE. Free speech is NOT a guarantee here as this is a privately owned board by the Admin of this site.

It is also NOT ALLOWED to attack someone's writing skills or 'education'.

ANY further comments of this nature will result in a suspension or permanent ban.

The way I look at it, you've stepped into the confessional, confessed your sins and now you are absolved. Your penance is to raise your pups the best that you can.

IMO, you really haven't sinned, so, go in peace.

Hitler was a bad man, you are not. I recommend that you ignore the negative and focus on the positive, comments.

:thumbup::)

I'm a bit alarmed that only professional breeders seem to think it is their domain to produce puppies. It seems quite elitist. It smells bad.:thumbdown:mad:

Spay and neuter your pets, husbands, wives and children. There's too many of us! :animal36

If anyone needs a refresher as to YT's rules, they are here: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...uidelines.html

Members are welcome to state their opinion in a respectful, calm manner. If they are unable to restrain themselves to state their opinion in this manner, they need to either step away from their computer until they can, expect a suspension/ban, and/or find a different forum.

THANK YOU.

Do you think I'm angry? I'm not angry at all. This is the problem with communication over the internet, you can't assume you know the tone of the person. In my first post actually, I wasn't in my head as I was typing it out trying to be rude at all, I was just stating MY REASONS why I decided to spay my girl, which the OP took personally and insulted me with a very rude come-back which is what started it. I wasn't thinking in my mind ''oh I'm going to be a big baddie and piss this person off just for the hell of it!''

I don't care if I get banned, or have my abilities taken there are other forums I go to where the people are much nicer and there is less drama, less people with their problems and honestly, ever since I joined here I've been really let down by the over all attitude of most people here which probably contributes to me being so stand offish. If I really wanted to, I could just make a new account here anyways but honestly, I wouldnt. The community here is very dramatic, depressing, and there are too many people on here who feel the need to educate people in a way it isn't appropriate or warranted. My first day here, I thought I made a couple of friends. What I found was a couple of snobbish, rude, mean ladies with know-it-all syndrome. I'm sorry if that left a bad taste in my mouth, but I see it here constantly and I'd welcome a ban at this point. I've also seen people bullie others then go on to be hypocrites here when they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Okay, fine. Count me out of it.

Then why are you still here?

Please people, if you are going to post a reply... have a heart, and do it with respect. Really? who wants to hear thoughts of someone spewing venom?? There is something to be said for being diplomatic. Really, would you feel good if someone spoke to you like how you have spoken? Really - I don't need an answer, it is a rhetorical question. I have not read, nor do I intend to, any further posts of a person who attacks! I have no time for that, as I find this a waste of my valuable time:) Enough said on that subject from me, as I have already spent too much time on it. Yes I know, no one asked me to, I did it on my own. I concur that Admin. should do something about people who are all too happy to attack!!! I will, however, be anxious of updates on this pack and will be checking in. Please don't stop posting because of a few who are negative and attacking you. I truly hope that all works out well for you, that you have helpful support and that others will take heed of your reason for posting.:) Big hug to you:)

There's a definite clique-y feeling here. I've noticed it and I've been around for quite a while, although my post count is low. I chalk it up to them all knowing each other better than they know me. No one's ever been rude though... Except for you one day when you posted in my thread where I was joking about divorcing my hubby if he left the gate open and my baby got out. I believe you called me pathetic. I didn't say anything out of the way to you, and I ignored you when you did that, but I don't think you can blame everyone else. You seem to want drama and search for it. My thread was a happy one until you got there. :-/

Just my 2 cents.

Well, I don't know actually. There are times where I say to myself ''I'm never going back to that site.'' I have learned a lot here, and I try to help people with potty training because so many people seem to have problems/struggle with it and I share my experience ( have a pup that was trained by 3 months old! ) so that people can not worry about it and enjoy their dog to the fullest. I have met maybe 2 or 3 nice people here, which to me is kind of sad seeing as how big the community is. I think you were actually the only one ( could have been another admin, but you seem familiar) to have welcomed me here when I was new. Just seems like a bit of an unhappy forums, with lots of unhappy people. That's all I've seen since joining, just drama, drama, more drama.

Best of luck with the puppies... and praying for a speedy recovery for Allie.

Did I call you pathetic? I recall not actually saying anything to you but saying it was pathetic in general to treat a dog better than a person and went on to give a story of why I felt that way. I have very differing views from a lot of people on these forum boards, I'm not the kind of person that babies my dog, dresses her up in tutu's, puts her on a pedistool and humanizes her. A lot of people here do that and it gets on my nerves. I'm sorry that you misunderstood my post.

I appreciate your honest response. All forums will have some drama, passion, hot threads, hurt feelings, things that go awry. It comes with any community, and we're no different. The good here FAR outweighs any bad, at all times. It's just that 'bad' always feels 100x more magnified than the good. If we focus on the negative, that's what we'll see/experience. To me, the negative here is a kernel of sand that is within an entire beach of positive things that happen here. That's merely my take/opinion though. I hope you're able to see things in a different light, bc this board and its members have a lot to offer.

I JUST joined and I remember that one..... obviously humorous turned bad... due to "pathetic" response. I see some posts and just roll my eyes rather than diss someone who pampers their pet to what I view as excessive. This is a yorkie forum.... the people here LOVE their yorkies! It's all good!:animal36

I am sorry that you are having such a hard time with the pups. My best wishes to your little girl and the babies. I hope you all pull through. It does always seem darkest before the dawn. Positive, healing energy to your family.

Yeah, it was meant as humorous! I wouldn't really divorce my hubby (I don't think so anyway, but it hasn't actually happened yet. haha).

I hate to get this thread off-track with my story. I'm glad the OP has shared her experience so that others learn from it. I must admit, I've thought about it a little. Rory babies would be so darling! She's such a good dog, and it would be for the betterment of the breed (IMO), but I have no experience and this thread scared me. I don't want to put her through that.

And this was why I posted it. So that people who are thinking about it will think again.

Well I know nothing about breeding except what I have learned on YT, but there is so much more I have learned from the generous folks here that have made my life and Cali's life so much better:D

MicheleM I applaud all you are doing for your pups and mama dog. Shows you truly care about them. Your honest story about the mistake is a eye opener and reminder to others. Then again, how many children are born into this world and loved who were "mistakes" or not planned, but adored and nurtured - all of which you are doing.

I wish you continued strength to care for those furbabies!

Michelle, I didn't read all the posts here, so don't know who's offering help. If you need help, I'll give it. 978-314-2154 or pm me here on YT.

Geez for someone to say cussing at someone is stooping to a low, you sure are cussing a lot.

You learned a lot or you like to tell other people how you did something? And by the way, how did you potty train that 3 month old, when you aren't even supposed to take the baby away from mom until 12 weeks (3 months)?

Im hoping that Michele will have time to come and give us an update on the puppies and Allie later,maybe start a new thread just about how they are. I know that she is appreciating the helpful comments and the good thoughts.

I think it was great of Michele to make this post. Many people don't care to even admit they make a mistake when they do. Also I do think this could help other people who want to breed who won't listen to the people who know stuff like this could happen but will listen to the people it has happened to. This happening is what scares me when people don't know what there doing because most people would just let the puppies die either not knowing any better or just not caring. Good luck and I hope things work out.

It took a lot of courage to write your post, and it will help others a great deal. You made a mistake, are taking full responsibility for it, and sharing your experience with others. It's obvious the length you will go for your pups after your bout with parvovirus, now that you got Allie the help she needed when a c-section became necessary, and all the loving things you do for others on YT. I'm just as sure that you will care for Allie and her four princesses. Please know that we care and will be rooting for you and your babies.

From Michelle's first post, it appears as though the pregnancy was an accidental tie and not an intentional "i am going to breed my dogs" breeding. Yes, perhaps it is irresponsible for her not to spay/neuter her pets and allow them in the house together....but even good breeders can have an accidental tie happen. I don't think she planned on becoming a BYB.

There are lots of people who intentionally Backyard breed every day and don't see anything wrong with it and they never see it as making a mistake. Heck, there are people who come on here, read up on things and STILL don't see what they did wrong and never will. At least a. it was an accident and not an intentional breeding and b. she knows she made a mistake and is owning up to it...and not only is she owning up to it, she's sharing her story in hopes that it will prevent others from making the same mistake.

The fact that she is owning up to and taking responsibility for the mistake, IMO, speaks volumes. It's not like she's advocating BYBing. I do understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion....but I think Michelle already understands that BYB'ing is bad and she's well aware of why. I am all for trying to educating people who need to be educated and I am all for trying to change someone's opinion when they feel they should breed their dogs, but aren't doing it in a professional way....but in Michelles case, I think she already understands those things. Just my 2 cents.

It's nice to see so many people stepping up to help her out, btw~~ Hopefully the mamma dog will start to take care of the puppies herself.

Michele I am sorry you are going through this but I have to ask is this the same Allie that had a litter last year? http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...ntor-asap.html If so please have her fixed this time.

I'm just wondering if the vet put the pups in with the mom after she woke up from surgery. I'm not a dog breeder but I have experience with animals that have had c-sections. I have taken care of a lot of strays and feral animals and I used to breed purebred cats. Usually once they come around they will start letting the babies nurse. If the vet lets your little girl come home the day after the c-section she may start to nurse them but if they wait too long it may be too late for her to take any interest. She may even dry up and not be able to nurse. If you can get them to nurse a little bit her milk may come in and then she will naturally want to feed those pups. The sooner the better. I hope so for your sake and for the puppies sakes. It is best for them to get the natural protection that they get from the mothers milk.

You have learned a valuable lesson. Breeding any kind of animal is risky business but small breed dogs is asking for double trouble. Any kind of dog or cat make wonderful pets that we can love and enjoy. It's best just to leave the breeding to the real professionals that have the time, knowledge, money and experience to do it the right way. There is so much more to it than letting two dogs mate. Personally, I would rather just reap the rewards of the knowledge and hard work of a good, reputable breeder.

I don't think the vet put them in with mom until after she recovered and up and about. They then tried to get her to nurse them and she wanted no part of it. They didn't want her to hurt herself by struggling to get away so they started bottle feeding the pups and kept her and pups separate. Her milk hasn't come it, you can't get anything from her teats. The vet sent the puppies home with me at 5 am and had me come back for Allie at 8:30. They were born around 2:15, and they spayed her after the c-section.

Had I known more about c-sections, I would have known to ask for a placenta or 2 to take home to make the transition easier.
We are putting the 2 stronger pups to teats to suck and try and get the hormones going.
I can say overall I am not pleased with the emergency vet because they didn't see the "need" for an oxytocin shot after pups were born and also my vet basically told me he didn't think it would do any good at this point. He also strongly suggested I bottle feed and not tube feed because he said pups really need to learn to suck, even after I presented him with several breeders statements that tube feeding was better for several reasons.
I called 4 other vets in my area and none of them would teach me to tube feed and all "strongly discouraged" it. I have emailed a breeder in Dallas to see if she can refer me to her vet or one she may know that will teach me. Right now pups are doing okay, but I'd rather them do better than okay. The 2 smaller ones have a poor latch and it's harder for them to feed on the bottles-we're really having to work with them, and it's a slow process.

It is sad to say but a good knowledgeable and reputable breeder knows about a ton more about breeding than almost any vet you will ever meet. This is another reason why it is best for anyone who is interested in breeding dogs or cats learn by experience with a good reputable breeder that will take them under their wing. Experience is the best teacher.

Don't give up on trying to get her to nurse. Put the pups in with her when you can observe them with her. Tube feeding is the best way to know they are getting the exact amount the puppy needs to have for it's size. Probably the people at the vets offices you called don't really have a great grasp on how to do it anyway.

Do you have a small scale to weigh them on? It is important to keep close track of their weight and try to make sure they get the right amount of formula each feeding.