yet she *can't* be shown!?

[bellemarie]

i'm sorry, this is pretty much just a rant! my lovely poppet is everything i'd hoped for from kukis litter, but... she's 9lb. and i've therefore been told i can't show her- she wouldn't even be welcome in the ring! and pretty much just for her size! yet...

General Appearance
Long-coated, coat hanging quite straight and evenly down each side, a parting extending from nose to end of tail. Very compact and neat, carriage very upright conveying an important air. General outline conveying impression of vigorous and well proportioned body.
check!

Characteristics
Alert, intelligent toy terrier.
check!

Temperament
Spirited with even disposition.
check!

Head and Skull
Rather small and flat, not too prominent or round in skull, nor too long in muzzle; black nose.
imo check! (longer than some like)

Eyes
Medium, dark, sparkling, with sharp intelligent expression and placed to look directly forward. Not prominent. Edge of eyelids dark.
check!

Ears
Small, V-shaped, carried erect, not too far apart, covered with short hair, colour very deep, rich tan.
pretty much check! (wouldn't class as small, but erect and proportioned)

Mouth
Perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. upper teeth closely overlapping lower teeth and set square to the jaws. Teeth well placed with even jaws.
check!

Neck
Good reach.
check!

Forequarters
Well laid shoulders, legs straight, well covered with hair of rich golden tan a few shades lighter at ends than at roots, not extending higher on forelegs than elbow.
check!

Body
Compact with moderate spring of rib, good loin. Level back.
check! (again proportioned)

Hindquarters
Legs quite straight when viewed from behind, moderate turn of stifle. Well covered with hair of rich golden tan a few shades lighter at ends than at roots, not extending higher on hindlegs than stifles.
check!

Feet
Round; nails black.
check!

Tail
Undocked: Plenty of hair, darker blue in colour than rest of body, especially at end of tail. Carried a little higher than level of back. As straight as possible. Length to give a well balanced appearance.
check! (well, most of the time!)

Gait/Movement
Free with drive; straight action front and behind, retaining level topline.
check! one of the best i've seen compared to many of 'our' show YTs

Coat
Hair on body moderately long, perfectly straight (not wavy), glossy; fine silky texture, not woolly, must never impede movement. Fall on head long, rich golden tan, deeper in colour at sides of head, about ear roots and on muzzle where it should be very long. Tan on head not to extend on to neck, nor must any sooty or dark hair intermingle with any of tan.

check! (but when i see moderately long i don't read to the floor)

Colour
Dark steel blue (not silver blue), extending from occiput to root of tail, never mingled with fawn, bronze or dark hairs. Hair on chest rich, bright tan. All tan hair darker at the roots than in middle, shading to still lighter at tips.
check! this is the point i was improving on

Size
Weight up to 3.2 kgs (7 lbs).

nope

Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

so how is what i've pointed out as faults seen as major here? i've seen dogs get placed who can barely walk- and even one who gets tired walking round the ring because he is so small and unfit!


i wish judging here worked on a point system- it would be a heck of a lot better than just a plain yes or no to each dog...

i'm tempted to take her along to a club show anyway- if for no other reason than to show them what they're missing!

i'm not being unreasonable here though am i? it doesn't seem right?

(i can't find any one pic of her all brushed and standing nice (they do exist i promise! lol) so here's plenty of bad quality, scruffy ones to make up for it!)

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...psf5d37c2a.jpg
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...ps695b83a7.jpg
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...s/c1200b07.jpg
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...ps14634986.jpg

[Maximo]

She is a beautiful girl.

The reason for conformation showing is to evaluate breeding stock. The standard for Yorkies is 7 pounds and under. My boys are bigger than standard too, "pet quality." I still think they are beautiful.

[CouversMom]

I would say the majority of dogs on here wouldn't make it in the show ring, but they are amazing dogs. Why don't you take her and see what the other show owners say? I personally don't have my dogs to show them, they are pets.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by Maximo

She is a beautiful girl.

The reason for conformation showing is to evaluate breeding stock. The standard for Yorkies is 7 pounds and under. My boys are bigger than standard too, "pet quality." I still think they are beautiful.

Yea I get that, and yes- that much over is a fault. My point is its not exactly good if a dog who is too small to behave like a dog with knees it can barely walk on would win in the ring over a dog with pretty darned good over all conformation to the standard but is over sized. How is size more of a factor than health? That's the bit that gets me.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by CouversMom

I would say the majority of dogs on here wouldn't make it in the show ring, but they are amazing dogs. Why don't you take her and see what the other show owners say? I personally don't have my dogs to show them, they are pets.

The ones who have seen a lot more of her thought she was 'coming on great' until I told them her size! I'm growing her moms coat back in to enter the ring with her- just for fun.
But when you look at how basic the standard is- and how Everyone can interpret it differently- why make one thing seem worse than another? I'd thought kukis lighter colour was going to be a big fault- but seems not as much as being big! Lol
They're all the best Yorkie in the world to their owners anyway!!

[Lovetodream88]

Honestly I think they need to look at having two classes for yorkies because bigger yorkies are in a high demand with family's and there are a lot. I love me a bigger off standard yorkie

[theporkieyorkie]

I know a lot of people who prefer yorkies a little bigger...because they love the breed, but don't like how fragile the little ones are.

Can you still show in obedience or agility??

[Holly_Wood]

it reminds me of world of modeling .... only skinny girls allowed .... (I'm trying to say that as light hearted humor as possible)

Reading the history of the Yorkshire terrier they were 9lbs and above and it was royalty that started breeding them smaller ... I must admit I adore the small yorkies 4-5 pounds because I'm a sucker for little cute faces .... but any yorkie face is adorable :-) :-)

Maybe they could have a "original" Yorkie class ....

Regardless your baby is gorgeous :-)

[tjdmom]

There are some judges who like a bigger dog although yes, she is over the standard, if she is truly exceptional in other ways, I would give it a shot anyways. I don't see any photo's in full coat though?

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

Yea I get that, and yes- that much over is a fault. My point is its not exactly good if a dog who is too small to behave like a dog with knees it can barely walk on would win in the ring over a dog with pretty darned good over all conformation to the standard but is over sized. How is size more of a factor than health? That's the bit that gets me.

I've heard exhibitors here in the US complain that not all champions are worthy of the title, but many are. It's the nature of the competition. Even in more "precise", less subjective sports, we complain that referees favor certain teams and give them an advantage.

[gracielove]

People may take dogs that "can barely walk" to a show but they are not going to win anything. One of the things they are judged on is their gait. If a dog is not able to walk smoothly with it's head held high it is going to be passed over in the ring.
They are judged according to the standard. 7lbs is the weight limit. Anyone with an AKC registration can enter a show so a larger dog could legally be in the ring but would not be considered for any prize.

If you purchased your dog as show quality then you should talk to the breeder about a partial refund. Most show show prospect pups are far more expensive than a pet quality pup.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

The ones who have seen a lot more of her thought she was 'coming on great' until I told them her size! I'm growing her moms coat back in to enter the ring with her- just for fun.
But when you look at how basic the standard is- and how Everyone can interpret it differently- why make one thing seem worse than another? I'd thought kukis lighter colour was going to be a big fault- but seems not as much as being big! Lol
They're all the best Yorkie in the world to their owners anyway!!

Well what does your breed club say? Have you attended club sponsored judging seminars on the standard? Most clubs issue an "illustrated standard as well".

A word or two about gaits and gaiting in the ring. A shorter dog, and remember there is no minimum weight guideline, so a proportional dog of 3.5 lbs standing at about 7.5" their trot will "look" quite different to the eye, then a dog at 7lbs and 9.5" tall. The absolute reach and drive capability is going to be obviously less with the shorter dog. It can appear that the trot is less fluid than the taller dog.

How compact is your dog? and what does compact mean? These kinds of questions should be answered in the comments to the standard and or come up in a judging seminar.

One definition of compactness can start with describing the ratio of length to height. Essentially the YT is a "square" dog, height to length approximately equal. Height= from floor to top of withers and Length=from point of shoulder to rear of ischium. To do this accurately you need to use a wicket, and place your dog in a good stack position on a level surface and take the measurements. Then take a good look at the back and look for a 1:1:1 ratio from withers to tail inset. In otherwords you divide the back into 3 parts. Each part being in equal in length to each other.

Weighing the importance of each part of the standard to the whole. Again your club should be defining and coaching the judges on the relative weight or importance.

Here in N.A. coat and color are of prime importance. Texture of coat crucial. ie the true silk coat which is colored correctly. Pure silk coat in an adult Yorkie should reach the floor! Also the facial furnishings are in my opinion hard to grow to that length. The coat will need to be wrapped to achieve that length.
Do you have an "expert" breeder in Ireland, that you trust to beyond the weight/size issue, go over your gal, and give you a critique to the standard?

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well what does your breed club say? Have you attended club sponsored judging seminars on the standard? Most clubs issue an "illustrated standard as well".

A word or two about gaits and gaiting in the ring. A shorter dog, and remember there is no minimum weight guideline, so a proportional dog of 3.5 lbs standing at about 7.5" their trot will "look" quite different to the eye, then a dog at 7lbs and 9.5" tall. The absolute reach and drive capability is going to be obviously less with the shorter dog. It can appear that the trot is less fluid than the taller dog.

How compact is your dog? and what does compact mean? These kinds of questions should be answered in the comments to the standard and or come up in a judging seminar.

One definition of compactness can start with describing the ratio of length to height. Essentially the YT is a "square" dog, height to length approximately equal. Height= from floor to top of withers and Length=from point of shoulder to rear of ischium. To do this accurately you need to use a wicket, and place your dog in a good stack position on a level surface and take the measurements. Then take a good look at the back and look for a 1:1:1 ratio from withers to tail inset. In otherwords you divide the back into 3 parts. Each part being in equal in length to each other.

Weighing the importance of each part of the standard to the whole. Again your club should be defining and coaching the judges on the relative weight or importance.

Here in N.A. coat and color are of prime importance. Texture of coat crucial. ie the true silk coat which is colored correctly. Pure silk coat in an adult Yorkie should reach the floor! Also the facial furnishings are in my opinion hard to grow to that length. The coat will need to be wrapped to achieve that length.
Do you have an "expert" breeder in Ireland, that you trust to beyond the weight/size issue, go over your gal, and give you a critique to the standard?

when i talk about them not being able to walk- it was a definite LP 'hop', not just a shorter gait; it was another lady who Used to show YTs that i pointed this put to, and she smiled and said 'yup, but it doesn't seem to matter with their dogs'. the judges don't even seem to feel the dogs structure that much either- just check the coat. it seems to be All about the coat (yet poor colouring is still common)!


there was someone who was going to help me with popp- with showing etc and even finding a good stud (they thought that even if she didn't show she'd be a great brood bitch.... and would even put one of their dogs to her). but unfortunately the gentleman is no longer involved in the show world after the passing of his lovely wife. i'd only met them a few times, but they were a lovely couple- the most helpful i'd came across.

i'd nearly described her as square in my first post- don't know why i didn't- but i've been measuring her etc since she was a wee pup, and she has developed Very well.


unfortunately the show world here in the breed is Very small, and i don't want to seem as i'm criticizing anyone, because i'm not! it's the fact that toy breeds aren't judged like the other groups that gets me
the last time i asked about a seminar i got looked at like i had two heads- or was trying to enter a rottie in the shows! it just seems that the only fault that stands as an actual fault is size! her colouring is was better than her mothers and fathers (even her grandfather a champion)

so many times i've had her coat growing out, and every time i've been told i'm wasting my time, and it did dihearten me enough to get her cut... but it's growing again, and i'm hoping to take some better pics today...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

unfortunately the show world here in the breed is Very small, and i don't want to seem as i'm criticizing anyone, because i'm not! it's the fact that toy breeds aren't judged like the other groups that gets me
the last time i asked about a seminar i got looked at like i had two heads- or was trying to enter a rottie in the shows! it just seems that the only fault that stands as an actual fault is size! her colouring is was better than her mothers and fathers (even her grandfather a champion)

so many times i've had her coat growing out, and every time i've been told i'm wasting my time, and it did dihearten me enough to get her cut... but it's growing again, and i'm hoping to take some better pics today...

I am sorry that the folks you talked with - I am assuming club member breeders don't seem to see the necessity of seminars I have no idea why that would be so.

See if you can get some video(s) of her movement. Preferably on a level surface, going and coming, and the go-around.

On another note, we have a recent member here who is from Ireland and she started a thread in the Breeders forum asking about the "red table" for the ring. Maybe you can help her out where to get show supplies in Ireland?

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by gemy

I am sorry that the folks you talked with - I am assuming club member breeders don't seem to see the necessity of seminars I have no idea why that would be so.

See if you can get some video(s) of her movement. Preferably on a level surface, going and coming, and the go-around.

On another note, we have a recent member here who is from Ireland and she started a thread in the Breeders forum asking about the "red table" for the ring. Maybe you can help her out where to get show supplies in Ireland?

they're in NI- can't believe i missed that!
i'll get some vids of popp during the week- the ones i have atm of her are all her running about in the brush in the fields- just because she can! (to win an argument with someone about yorkies not being fit for function! she'd be a heck of a worker)

you can't believe how much i regret cutting her hair before... this time last year it nearly hit the floor! i got disheartened and took her to a groomer to get a bit off the ends, and they handed her back shaved words can't describe how much i cried that night over it! lol