over vaccinating is bad for our pets

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I don't like following trends or using new products either. ?but DOI studies have been done for many years.

It comes down to trusting DOI (proven by challenge) and realizing no vaccine is 100% effective or trusting titers.

I understand being nervous to stray too far from every 3 years or less because owners are so programmed to vaccinate vaccinate vaccinate. But for those stilll doing annual distemper/parvo...yikes.

FWIW, I forgot to mention above that while the kids don't play with strange dogs they do shadow with me sometimes, esp. Ellie. This consists of her being in a kennel near ill animals, interacting with staff after they have touched other animals all day, getting cuddled by me after petting random puppies. The only thing I wouldn't do is handke her if I knew a dog had something really contagious or let her share the isolation area with a sick dog, but that is common sense.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

BTW, I am current on tetanus..bc the DOI is questioned if it has been more than ten years. I'm not anti-vaccine.

This is how I feel. I'm actually not anti-vaccine at all, I think initial vaccines are very important in both babies and dogs and cringe when I hear people talk about being completely vaccine-free. I know people who do this with their infants, as well as I've read a few that do this with their dogs. I just think that's a bit scary.

But vaccine research is not just some internet mumbo jumbo or a new trend or fad among high end dog owners. And it's part of the reason I feel so strongly about it. But it's honestly just mostly common sense to me and going with my gut.

Nancy, I'm curious why you would think your dogs would be putting other dogs in harms way? Your dogs are not sick, correct? They've been vaccinated since they were 1 year old, right? I just don't see why you're concerned. And on the flip side, even if your dogs are around other sick dogs or exposed, since they've been vaccinated at some point in their life, and they're adults, the odds of them contracting something is rare anyway. Obviously I wouldn't purposely expose my dog to something.

The only shot I've had since I was a kid was a flu shot... like twice. I don't really think it does anything for me but working in daycare, I just figured I might as well. But I've felt like I had the flu before after getting the shot and then sometimes I don't get the flu if I didn't have the shot. *shrugs* Who knows...

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Britster

This is how I feel. I'm actually not anti-vaccine at all, I think initial vaccines are very important in both babies and dogs and cringe when I hear people talk about being completely vaccine-free. I know people who do this with their infants, as well as I've read a few that do this with their dogs. I just think that's a bit scary.

But vaccine research is not just some internet mumbo jumbo or a new trend or fad among high end dog owners. And it's part of the reason I feel so strongly about it. But it's honestly just mostly common sense to me and going with my gut.

Nancy, I'm curious why you would think your dogs would be putting other dogs in harms way? Your dogs are not sick, correct? They've been vaccinated since they were 1 year old, right? I just don't see why you're concerned. And on the flip side, even if your dogs are around other sick dogs or exposed, since they've been vaccinated at some point in their life, and they're adults, the odds of them contracting something is rare anyway. Obviously I wouldn't purposely expose my dog to something.

The only shot I've had since I was a kid was a flu shot... like twice. I don't really think it does anything for me but working in daycare, I just figured I might as well. But I've felt like I had the flu before after getting the shot and then sometimes I don't get the flu if I didn't have the shot. *shrugs* Who knows...

Lets say my dogs got something from the park, it's literally in my backyard, and they caught it because I haven't kept up with their shots, and then they give it to someone else's who has kept up with shots, but maybe for some reason the shots didn't work, or maybe someone in family gets a new puppy, who doesn't have all it's shots yet, but they come for a visit etc. etc. Lol, I realize I sound nuts.

The flu shot is different story, I 100% believe in it. I think somewhere in my 40's I started getting a really bad case of flu each year, I'd always been healthy before that, but the flu really knocked me out each year for more than 2 weeks. I started sporadically getting the shot and those years I wouldn't get the flu, if I don't get the shot, I always get the flu and it turns into a various serious illnesses. I don't think anyone can really know for sure unless they've gotten a really bad case of the flu, then you know, you do anything to prevent that happening again.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The article Ann linked said that titers give a false sense of security, that's what I was referring to. I wish I could be as sure as you are, I'm just not that sure that giving no shots is the right thing. So you don't believe in giving ANY shots after the first year booster? I've been told by others that after 5 years of age, they don't give any shots. Lots of people I know in real life get yearly shots for life. I also feel like it's more important for me because my dogs are around other dogs quite a bit and I don't want them making other dogs sick either.


I guess I don't understand the comparisons with humans, we don't tend to sniff poop and I guess I thought because of this behavior, dogs seems more at risk at contacting contagious diseases. Personally, I take better care of my dogs than I do myself and I pretty much do what the doctor tell me to do, unless I hear otherwise, and then I try to learn more. I guess I'm old enough to know that I have listened to trends and authorities before and have later learned they were wrong, because I didn't have the full picture or didn't understand all the exceptions to the rule. Getting the titers use to make me feel safe that I was doing the right thing. Now I don't feel that way.

It's so sad to me that people are *still* doing yearly shots when the AAHA has been recommending less for YEARS now...ugh, how can they do that to their dogs? More importantly, why are their vets allowing it and/or not educating them? Makes me crazy. Imagine the outrage if some human docs were giving us our vaccines every single year...um, hello malpractice.

The comparison to humans is bc the immune response is physiologically the same in terms of how it works. And I think it's interesting to note how much we *trust* human vaccines, but seem suspicious of canine vaccines (ie DOI or whatever). Also, even though we don't sniff poop ... it's actually almost worse for us bc many of our deadly germs are airborne...which is theoretically more dangerous.

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I don't like following trends or using new products either. ?but DOI studies have been done for many years.

It comes down to trusting DOI (proven by challenge) and realizing no vaccine is 100% effective or trusting titers.

I understand being nervous to stray too far from every 3 years or less because owners are so programmed to vaccinate vaccinate vaccinate. But for those stilll doing annual distemper/parvo...yikes.

FWIW, I forgot to mention above that while the kids don't play with strange dogs they do shadow with me sometimes, esp. Ellie. This consists of her being in a kennel near ill animals, interacting with staff after they have touched other animals all day, getting cuddled by me after petting random puppies. The only thing I wouldn't do is handke her if I knew a dog had something really contagious or let her share the isolation area with a sick dog, but that is common sense.

Yup, we have to trust the studies when they're good studies. The DOI studies were so conclusive. I'm so grateful that they were done too -- bc it's the very thing that allows us to move toward less overvaccination.

[Nancy1999]

I'm having a hard time reading AAHA guidelines. https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocume...Guidelines.pdf Some of it is printed vertically, and I don't want to print the booklet out. Does anyone know of a different link where they give a chart? If Dodds is controversial, I don't want her chart, I'm assuming right now the AAHA isn't controversial? My biggest question is are you all saying every three years for core vaccines, or they never need another booster?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm having a hard time reading AAHA guidelines. https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocume...Guidelines.pdf Some of it is printed vertically, and I don't want to print the booklet out. Does anyone know of a different link where they give a chart? If Dodds is controversial, I don't want her chart, I'm assuming right now the AAHA isn't controversial? My biggest question is are you all saying every three years for core vaccines, or they never need another booster?

I tilt my head to read it.

What I am saying is that they should be given a maximum of every 3-5 years. For those of us not concerned we may not do any after the one year booster.

The every 3 year rule was really just a compromise by these organizations/vets laying out the guidelines bc they would never have been able to tell general vets to go from annual to every 7-9+ years. There is no science to support every 3 years. There is science to support every 7-9+ years. These organzations were being very cautious by recommending every 3.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I tilt my head to read it.

What I am saying is that they should be given a maximum of every 3-5 years. For those of us not concerned we may not do any after the one year booster.

The every 3 year rule was really just a compromise by these organizations/vets laying out the guidelines bc they would never have been able to tell general vets to go from annual to every 7-9+ years. There is no science to support every 3 years. There is science to support every 7-9+ years. These organzations were being very cautious by recommending every 3.

Thanks, it a little more clear in my head now. Do you have any links I could send a few people? My son's vet does the every year thing too.

[Nancy1999]

What do you all think about this chart? Are Annual Pet Vaccines Necessary? - Prevention.com

My main concern with this chart is that it says, for distemper and parvo "1 to 7 years depending on initial vaccine used". Couldn't the vet just say, we only use the one year strain?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

What do you all think about this chart? Are Annual Pet Vaccines Necessary? - Prevention.com

My main concern with this chart is that it says, for distemper and parvo "1 to 7 years depending on initial vaccine used". Couldn't the vet just say, we only use the one year strain?

I just noticed this link recommends titers, so I'm back to square one.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

What do you all think about this chart? Are Annual Pet Vaccines Necessary? - Prevention.com

My main concern with this chart is that it says, for distemper and parvo "1 to 7 years depending on initial vaccine used". Couldn't the vet just say, we only use the one year strain?

I have heard this relative to rabies, but then many sources say there is no such thing/type as a 1 year vs 3 year vaccine.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

What do you all think about this chart? Are Annual Pet Vaccines Necessary? - Prevention.com

My main concern with this chart is that it says, for distemper and parvo "1 to 7 years depending on initial vaccine used". Couldn't the vet just say, we only use the one year strain?

Don't like it.
Stopping puppy vaccines at 12-14 weeks is something I nor my vet would do.

[Ellie May]

Vets should be AAHA certified.
And they should be keeping up with what the AAHA says. Some don't. With all this solid info available I can think of no reason to vaccinate annually. I just would not go to a refuse who refused to respect my wishes.

Some vets are firced into recommending yearly bc their bosses set the rules. But when asked they darn better give me other options.

If the AAHA is comfortable enough to recommend vaccines every 3-5 years with no titer I just do not see the point of titering yearly.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Vets should be AAHA certified.
And they should be keeping up with what the AAHA says. Some don't. With all this solid info available I can think of no reason to vaccinate annually. I just would not go to a refuse who refused to respect my wishes.

Some vets are firced into recommending yearly bc their bosses set the rules. But when asked they darn better give me other options.

If the AAHA is comfortable enough to recommend vaccines every 3-5 years with no titer I just do not see the point of titering yearly.

I'm not familiar with these acronyms. The AAHA is considered the leading authority? I thought it was the AVMA?


If anyone has a link with the guidelines in an easy to read format, please upload it to this thread.

[Maximo]

Is this the most up to date info? 2011

https://www.aahanet.org/Library/CanineVaccine.aspx

https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocume...Guidelines.pdf

I see that is what you linked above. Tilting head.

[Maximo]

Nancy, if you download the pdf and then open, go to View in your toolbar, you can rotate it for easier viewing.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Maximo

Nancy, if you download the pdf and then open, go to View in your toolbar, you can rotate it for easier viewing.

Okay, I thought maybe I was overlooking a better easy to read file.