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over vaccinating is bad for our pets

Dog Vaccination Side Effects - Are We Vaccinating Dogs Too Much? | Know Better Pet Food

Please read this link and stand up for your pets. They are the ones suffering from Over Vaccinating. If your a breeder please talk to your new puppy parents about this.

:thumbup: Great post- I agree. Everyone should learn about the possible side effects of vaccines! Everyone make sure you space apart your vaccines and talk to your vet about preventing allergic reactions.

I prefer to titer my little girl to see when she needs her booster shot.

My little girl, Ashley, had a heart condition that we discovered when she was close to eleven. We stopped giving her all vaccines. We walked daily at least a couple of miles and went many different places. I'm sure she probably still had her immunity from when she was younger, but she did fine without the shots. She lived one month shy of seventeen.

Thank you for sharing this, Lori. I have read some things from Dr. Schultz and Dr. Dodds, but this is excellent, too.

I hope the pendulum doesn't swing the other way, and people think they don't need to get puppy vaccinations, or the first yearly booster. Also, even if you decide you don't want to get yearly shots, it's still a good idea to get a well pet check up and do blood work for heartworm. We also get titers, because I like knowing that they have immunity for parvo and distemper.

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Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4295744)

I like the titers also. They give me peace of mind. The only reason we stopped giving all shots including rabies is because my veterinarian thought they would be unsafe for Ashley.

I agree. Currently I follow Dr Dodds Vaccination protocol, But I always let any new owners know about the importance to continue the puppy boosters and follow up with the adult vaccination then figure out the vaccine schedule they feel comfortable with. I also stress about well checks and heartworm check in my contracts. I also stress that titers are important and although they may cost a little more it is worth the cost if you are preventing other medical issues that pop up from over vaccinating.

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Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4295744)

Annual heartworm test is mandatory to continue purchasing HW preventatives. I too hope that no one would skip an annual checkup.

I was very happy to read Crystal's post that newer vaccination protocols call for a 5-year interval for many of the core vaccines. Max already had 2 checkups and a rabies vacc, so I am holding off on his DHPP.

I thought titering is still a bit controversial relative to accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4295744)

:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Maximo (Post 4295752)

Annual heartworm test is mandatory to continue purchasing HW preventatives. I too hope that no one would skip an annual checkup.

I was very happy to read Crystal's post that newer vaccination protocols call for a 5-year interval for many of the core vaccines. Max already had 2 checkups and a rabies vacc, so I am holding off on his DHPP.

I thought titering is still a bit controversial relative to accuracy.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Yup on the titering. It's most 'accurate' usage is for dogs who arrive into shelter/rescue and they're trying to confirm whether or not previous vax has ever been given to avoid over-vaxing (just using as example). As far as immunity - it can't confirm it, sadly. A dog can have a positive titer and still get the disease; they can have a negative titer yet still be immune. They can have humoral immunity but no cellular immunity and vice versa.

That said, titers can provide some assurance that some form of immunity *might* be present.

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Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4295912)

I read on YT that titering is practically worthless several times, but Dr. Jeane Dodds gives a different story. Since I'm taking her advice on immunization scheduling, I'm worried, if she's all wrong with her advice on titering. Here's what Dr. Dodds says on titer testing. From my understanding, every test has false positives and visa versa, but it's considered to be a low enough effect to make the test still valuable.

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Are there downsides to titering?
There is no downside to titering your pet. However, be aware that some veterinarians may be resistant to performing titer tests in lieu of vaccination. These veterinarians are misinformed and incorrectly believe that measuring an animal’s serum antibody titers is not a valid method of determining his immunity to infectious diseases, or that this testing is too costly.

With all due respect to these professionals, this represents a misunderstanding of what has been called the “fallacy of titer testing,” because research has shown that once an animal’s titer stabilizes, it is likely to remain constant for many years. Properly immunized animals have sterilizing immunity (immunity that prevents further infection even when an animal is exposed) that not only prevents clinical disease but also prevents infection, and only the presence of antibody can prevent infection.

As stated by the eminent expert Ronald Schultz, DVM of the University of Wisconsin in discussing the value of vaccine titer testing, “You should avoid vaccinating animals that are already protected, and titer testing can determine if adequate, effective immunity is present. It is often said that the antibody level detected is ‘only a snapshot in time.’ That’s simply not true; it is more a ‘motion picture that plays for years.’”
Furthermore, protection as indicated by a positive titer result is not likely to suddenly drop off unless an animal develops a severe medical condition or has significant immune dysfunction. It’s important to understand that viral vaccines prompt an immune response that lasts much longer than the immune response elicited by contracting the actual virus. Lack of distinction between the two kinds of responses may be why some practitioners think titers can suddenly disappear.

What if the titer test is negative?
Interpreting titers correctly depends upon the disease in question. Some titers must reach a certain level to indicate immunity, but with the clinically important “core” diseases vaccines, the presence of any measurable antibody indicates protection.

A positive titer test result is fairly straightforward, but a negative titer test result can be more difficult to interpret. This is because a negative titer is not the same thing as a zero titer, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that the animal is unprotected. A negative result usually means that the titer has failed to reach a desired threshold antibody level, but a low titer may still mean that the dog is protected upon exposure, as it doesn’t reflect tissue levels of immunity.

What’s the bottom line on titers?
More than a decade of experience with vaccine titer testing and published studies in refereed journals show that 92 – 98% of dogs and cats that have been properly vaccinated develop good measurable antibody titers to the infectious agent measured. In general, serum antibody titers to the “core” vaccines along with any natural exposures last a minimum of 7 – 9 years, and likely are present for life. This corresponds with what we see clinically, as the number of cases and deaths due to these diseases has decreased significantly in the vaccinated population.

The bottom line is that using vaccine titer testing as a means to assess vaccine-induced protection will likely result in your pet avoiding needless and potentially harmful booster vaccinations. And that is a huge benefit for a simple blood test! Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Avoid unnecessary vaccines with titer tests (Part III)

So bottom line, if it only gives "some assurance that some form of immunity *might* be present" it sounds pretty worthless.

When I first joined YT there was a very long thread on why are we still vaccinating our dogs. I had read a bit about the titer testing variables and issues with various tests, labs, handling/processing, readings and questioned whether or not the process was indeed a viable enough one throughout to be relied upon in any strict sense but most responses to me then seemed to think titer testing was the way to go. It does seem there might be enough worry about them as to keep vaccinating unless there are real contraindications or other significant reasons against.

I found another article where Dr. Dodds says she doesn't recommend titering for other diseases besides parvo and distemper and says that titering for other things is a waste of money, could that be part of the confusion?

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Actually, measuring the titers for just two vaccines, according to Dr. Dodds, can offer the dog owner a reliable “picture” of the dog’s immunological status. Good immunity to canine parvovirus (CPV) and canine distemper virus (CDV), she says, indicates proper “markers for the competence of the dog’s immune system.” Although the laboratories will also perform vaccine titer tests for other canine diseases, such as coronavirus and Lyme, Dr. Dodds deems these tests a waste of money. Protection from coronavirus, Dr. Dodds explains, depends on the current state of health of the dog’s gastrointestinal tract, not on what’s in the dog’s blood, so serum tests are not conclusive. Lyme is regionally based and not a significant threat to the general canine population, so only dogs in a high-risk environment need titer testing for Lyme. Dr. Dodds emphasizes that titer testing is not a “guess” at immunological response in a dog; when dealing with CDV and CDP, there is absolute correlation between certain high titer values and what is frequently referred to as “protection” from the diseases in question. In this case, the animal’s owner and veterinarian can feel quite confident that the animal possesses sufficient resources for fighting off a disease challenge. When the tests reveal that the animal has borderline or low titer values, the owner and veterinarian should consider revaccinating and then testing the titers again. It may turn out that the animal simply needed a booster to stimulate a stronger immune response. Or, maybe the people involved learn that the animal lacks the ability to respond normally to vaccines, that is, by mounting a proper immune response. In this case, the owner and veterinarian have gained very valuable information about the dog’s compromised immune status – information they never would have gained by simply vaccinating and assuming the dog was “protected” as is usually the case with healthy dogs. As you can see, in reality, simply administering vaccines to dogs every year is more of a guessing game than using titer tests to learn about the dog’s immune competence. Studies worldwide support titer test results as comprehensive information about a dog’s immunological response capabilities.

TITER TEST

"Confusion" is a particularly descriptive term of how I felt after reading the things I did back in 2011 about the whole process and which tests were effective, how they were handled, processed and interpreted by the lab/vet and then what that actually told them about that dog's immune response to that disease on that day vs. next month or upon a sudden insult of infection, etc. There seemed to be much surmising and assuming, uses of words like "may", "likely" and "probable", etc., in final statements at the ends of articles that I was left feeling I knew very little more than when I began.

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Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4296054)

That's just scientific writing, they HAVE to write tentatively, there are very few absolutes, but the margin of area is really small and especially since all tests have to be replicated. That is the way I was taught to write when interpreting results. It's only the amateur who is 100% certain.

I'm in agreement with you, Nancy, about Dr. Dodds. She has spent so much of her medical career studying the affects of vaccination, and so has Dr. Schultz. I don't think anything is foolproof, but the risks of overvaccinating to me are a great concern, and it seems that titering is an excellent alternative. My vet was very happy when I asked about titering. He prefers to test every year rather than every three years, which is fine with me. My Ashley went six years not being vaccinated, and although we didn't go to dog parks or pet stores, she walked a great deal and went many places with me. Most likely dogs are fully immunized after they get their one year boosters, but I know I would worry too much if I didn't titer.