Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4293974)

How many times have we seen that people can be just absolutely wonderful while they are trying to get your money in to their pockets, but then their true personality shows up down the road during a crisis? I do believe that this woman's true personality has come shining through, and it isn't pretty.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4293985)

That's really admirable, sweet and from your generous heart but it's your personal decision made from your own personal living and financial circumstances and only surmising what you might or might not do given a similar situation. It's only hypothetical and your circumstances could potentially change so drastically some day you could never now know what you might do one day. But right now, you are not walking in Amy's shoes. She and others might feel differently given their own personal financial circumstances, which might be far, far different from yours or the majority here on YT. Some people are pretty much on their own in every way and have to live very hard, more practical lives at times due to being very much on their own with little or no help of any kind from anyone or any entity.

It doesn't mean people are irresponsible or bad people if they want to return a sick dog to the breeder from whence it came and lemon laws in some states are made to help people in that very situation. It does mean that dealing with breeders like that described by the OP on this and on another thread are to be avoided at all costs but, still, it could potentially discourage some bad breeding practices if people would wholesale return newly purchased sick puppies to the breeders and make them deal with what they've produced.

Originally Posted by MauiGirl (Post 4293983)

I was thinking the same thing. Everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the dog will have hydrocephalus and that is not necessarily true. I just read six different articles on hydrocephalus, and not one of them indicated that open fontanelle was a cause or a symptom of hydrocephalus. Hydrocephalus is a genetic disease of vascular malfunction.

I strongly advise Amy to get a second or third opinion on the open fontanelle, before making any decisions.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4293991)

You are partially correct. An open fontanel is not the cause of hydrocephalus, but hydrocephalus can cause a fontanel to remain open and increase in size.

Hydrocephalus has a few causes. The most prevalent is an obstruction in the ventricles of the brain that causes the fluid (CSF) to build up. Then there is the non-obstructive type that is caused by either an overproduction of CSF or by a decreased reabsorption of the CSF. Then there are the non-genetic causes- meningitis, encephalitis, Intraventricular hemorrhages, tumors...

An absolute best case scenario is that this open fontanel is just that, an open fontanel. But even that carries some significant risks. The brain in the exposed area is covered only by a very thin dura. That puts them at significant risk of a traumatic brain injury that can occur after a fall or other blow to the head.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4293986)

She sure did take the OP in pretty completely, didn't she? She was very taken with her for the longest time and couldn't say enough good things about her.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4293992)

Can the pup be tested for hydrocephalus?

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4293997)

The quickest test would be a cranial ultrasound to look at the size of the ventricles. It's painless, but may require sedation to get an accurate look.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4293991)

You are partially correct. An open fontanel is not the cause of hydrocephalus, but hydrocephalus can cause a fontanel to remain open and increase in size. The increased pressure on the brain causes stress on the suture lines that then begin to separate in an attempt to reduce inward pressure on the brain.

Hydrocephalus has a few causes. The most prevalent is an obstruction in the ventricles of the brain that causes the fluid (CSF) to build up. Then there is the non-obstructive type that is caused by either an overproduction of CSF or by a decreased reabsorption of the CSF. Then there are the non-genetic causes- meningitis, encephalitis, Intraventricular hemorrhages, tumors...

An absolute best case scenario is that this open fontanel is just that, an open fontanel. But even that carries some significant risks. The brain in the exposed area is covered only by a very thin dura. That puts them at significant risk of a traumatic brain injury that can occur after a fall or other blow to the head.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4293997)

The quickest test would be a cranial ultrasound to look at the size of the ventricles. It's painless, but may require sedation to get an accurate look.

Originally Posted by amyazer (Post 4294004)

an xray would require anesthesia and she cant at this age...how do you do an ultrasound?

Originally Posted by amyazer (Post 4294004)

an xray would require anesthesia and she cant at this age...how do you do an ultrasound?

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4294006)

They only sedated Callie for X-rays they can't do that with Zoey? There have been younger pups put under at 8 weeks to be fixed and made it ok.

Originally Posted by amyazer (Post 4294014)

not sure taylor when i went to the second dr she told me at 1.5 pounds she cant put her under...now shes 1.8 pounds...im not sure i assume not

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4293969)

There is no way I could finacialy afford a sick puppy right now but if I bought one and it was sick I still absolutely would not give it back no matter what because the puppy doesn't understand why it's leaving the home it's known for weeks and it will morn and stress leaving. Why do puppies and dogs always have to be the one to suffer. Ok so the pup was bought from a bad breed live and learn even get the law involved but don't make a suffering puppy suffer more. The only way the breeder will learn is to get the law involved I highly doubt returning the puppy is gonna make much difference to teach her anything. Callie was sick when I got her and never even thought of giving her back and trust me what she cost and the health care she had to have was certainly not in the budget. I am not rich or never have been.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4293974)

How many times have we seen that people can be just absolutely wonderful while they are trying to get your money in to their pockets, but then their true personality shows up down the road during a crisis? I do believe that this woman's true personality has come shining through, and it isn't pretty.

Originally Posted by amyazer (Post 4294020)

these are the two papers i got from her besides the health certificate n the registration papers i dont know if its clear

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4294022)

Wow this has turned so many ways since I was last here.

Amy at the least go to a specialist and have this pup evaluated by someone who knows wth they are really doing. Your vet has given you some misinformation, perhaps he means he isn't comfortable sedating a young, tiny pup like this. My Mini was very tiny and young and endured several hours of surgery BY A SPECIALIST.

It amazes me that some of the people who DIDN'T buy/adopt a sick PUP are so quick to say give it back....I know what we should do etc., etc., it also amazes me how when people here are talking about giving it back they suddenly start using the word DOG and IT. I'm not criticizing just noticing...

This poor little girl is yours, she is beautiful, yes you most certainly got robbed to the enth dollar degree...but your baby loves you and needs you and now you have learned so much here going forward, before you get your money back for this baby make sure Amy you have her truly evaluated before such a decision, then I ask that you consider cutting your losses and giving her to a rescue if you can't afford her future care...I can't imagine, knowing what I know about this breeder that she will do anything but put her to death....

I wish you and Zoey nothing but good....

Originally Posted by capt_noonie (Post 4294044)

I said call her on her bluff and say you will give her back for a refund. She is counting on people not wanting to give back a pup they have bonded with.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4294033)

They can sedate a pup that size. Since its a fairly quick procedure, it's a light sedation that wears off quickly, but it's best done by a vet who is well versed in small breed sedation protocols.

As to how much it costs, I have no clue. Maybe lynzy can shed some light on that. I'm sure a cardiac ultrasound was one of the many things she had done on her sweet baby along the way.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4293986)

She sure did take the OP in pretty completely, didn't she? She was very taken with her for the longest time and couldn't say enough good things about her.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4293988)

I think at this point it's just best to say we agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4294052)

They are no different then car salespersons....really...I mean would you buy a pup from an honest bich?

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4294088)

Awwww....no problem. You know I luv you to bits and what you do on YT to try to help dogs by educating owners and supporting YT'ers going through troubles and bad times. I really admire you, Miss T. X0x0X0X0 :)