Dare I start a question about puppymills...here goes
 

So i have been skimming the threads about puppymills one thing ive realized is that once a breeder says the word teacup she/he is considered a puppymill...what is the correlation between a teacup puppy n puppymill? could a puppymill be a puppymill without advertising teacups? Next question what is considered a puppymill a person who is just trying to make money from producing dogs or a person who abuses their animals? Now i may get alot of angry comments for this next statement but is it possible for a breeder like my breeder to just want to make money from a puppy but not abuse or not ,not take care of her animals? wouldnt that just be considered a plane breeder? Whats so wrong with selling a puppy (not including the discussion about genetics n dna testing) who doesnt necessarily live in puppymill conditions and doesnt necessarily breed the 3 to 4 pound moms (and does use the word teacup ) ive been scratching my head over this i just dont see the problem.

teacup is a marketing tactic. its a way to get more money. no such thing. from what i have learned here you breed to better the breed. so mixing say yorkie and maltese for instance for your designer morkie is not bettering the breed. also from what i have read here if you are doing things correctly you wont make a ton of money overnight. the health of the mom and dad and babies should come first. im sure others will give you much more insight.

You know...I don't want to discourage you from asking questions because often that is how we learn. I do want to direct you to other posts on this subject. This subject has been hashed and rehashed since I first started and probably even before that. It's a really touchy subject. Just be forewarned!!

Not exactly true. Someone who advertises Teacup can be a Puppymill or a BackYardBreeder/Unethical Breeder/Greeder.

Yes A puppymill can be a puppymill without advertising teacups. Some puppymills don't even advertise they just sell to brokers only and auctions.

A legal puppymill is licensed by the USDA an illegal is just that illegal they often have a high volume/ some low volume business, they cage their animals, often several kennels high, and with no contact other than to feed or clean (when they bother). They live in deplorable conditions, often times.

There is nothing wrong with selling an incidental Tiny, its when they breed for tiny that makes it unethical...intentioanally breeding potentially unhealthy babies/tinies is wrong...that's like humans intentionally trying to produce blonds, males, etc...selective breeding, not standard breeding is wrong.

Does this help my dear Amy? I'm really glad to see you are educating yourself but keep going girlie...I know your getting there!

Hahaha...Amy is the queen of rebellion on this topic...were working on her though, the best part is she is learning, and wants to learn....:thumbup:

Amy I suggest in the future you try wording your titles in a "softer" way...like...Puppymill information please...not Dare I.....not that I'm telling you how to post! Lol

I really am glad your working on this, truly....I knew you had it in you...

Answers in BOLD

So i have been skimming the threads about puppymills one thing ive realized is that once a breeder says the word teacup she/he is considered a puppymill...what is the correlation between a teacup puppy n puppymill? PM's don't care whether using a marketing/buzz word is detrimental to a breed. Therefore, using the word 'teacup' can be indicative of an unethical breeder or PM. Also, PM's breed for quantity and if using/abusing a word means more sales, you can be darn sure they'll use it ad nauseum.

could a puppymill be a puppymill without advertising teacups? Sure.

Next question what is considered a puppymill a person who is just trying to make money from producing dogs or a person who abuses their animals? Well first, a PM by definition is abusive to their animals. PM's are cruel, horrific places. So yes, a PM would involve BOTH 'trying to make money from producing dogs' and being abusive to animals.

Now i may get alot of angry comments for this next statement but is it possible for a breeder like my breeder to just want to make money from a puppy but not abuse or not ,not take care of her animals? wouldnt that just be considered a plane breeder? Yes, it's possible for someone to want to make money off of animals, but they don't necessarily abuse said animals. I wouldn't call that a 'plain breeder', I'd call that a backyard breeder...I'd also call them unethical for USING ANIMALS, living creatures (!!!), to make money. To me, that's deplorable. I don't believe in making money off of selling living, breathing, precious beings.

Whats so wrong with selling a puppy (not including the discussion about genetics n dna testing) who doesnt necessarily live in puppymill conditions and doesnt necessarily breed the 3 to 4 pound moms (and does use the word teacup ) ive been scratching my head over this i just dont see the problem. See everything above.

Teacup is just a money hype term often used to sell regular-sized puppies too but they are rehomed so early at 5 and 6 weeks they are still quite small. Others truly do deal in the misery of breeding undersized, fragile dogs for the purpose of producing severely undersized dogs for more money, as many women will pay a lot more $$$ for a very undersized dog. BYB'er's, some show breeders or uneducated breeders might breed for an abnormally tiny litter so they can charge more money. So the term teacup doesn't automatically mean puppymill to me personally.

I consider a puppy mill to be a commercial breeder who is breeding for profit and not for health or betterment of the breed. It has nothing to do with advertising or how they market their dogs. The main component is that kennel conditions are substandard and don't meet state laws or barely meet minimum. Breeding dogs are breed to death and little or no vet care and no grooming care. Grooming might sound frivolous, but without grooming dogs can become so matted that they can no longer walk and this happens at many mills. A back yard breeder is someone who breeds for profit, takes no real interest in the breed or the health problems, doesn't study the lines, does no health testing, doesn't know or understand what the "standard" is and why it's important, breeds pets, not dogs specifically meant for breeding. She doesn't abuse the dog the way some millers do, but her lack of knowledge in breeding can have abusive effects on her breeding dogs, and on the puppies she produces. By the way, reputable breeders do not market their dogs, so breeding for "off colors" or teacups is not a component of the breeding programs. They are breeding to preserve and improve the breed, and they try to find suitable homes for the offspring that won't by used in their breeding programs. They do occasionally have smaller than average dogs, but they don't market them as "special" and worth more. They look for homes that can give the special care these tinies sometimes need.

It has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum, hasn't it? Still, there are new readers every day who can learn and don't know how to search well.

Your questions in black, my answers in red.

So i have been skimming the threads about puppymills one thing ive realized is that once a breeder says the word teacup she/he is considered a puppymill...what is the correlation between a teacup puppy n puppymill?

The term "teacup" is a marketing term trying to appeal to buyers of undersized and frequently unhealthy puppies. The term might be used by puppy mills, backyard breeders and those who haven't bothered to learn that there is only one classification of yorkies -Toy.

could a puppymill be a puppymill without advertising teacups? Yes. A puppy mill deals in quantity. Dogs are considered live stock and property, not pets.

-Next question what is considered a puppymill a person who is just trying to make money from producing dogs or a person who abuses their animals?
See above. A dog abuser is an a-hole, no matter how many dogs they have/breed.

Now i may get alot of angry comments for this next statement but is it possible for a breeder like my breeder to just want to make money from a puppy but not abuse or not ,not take care of her animals? wouldnt that just be considered a plane breeder? No. Your breeder would be considered a BYB (backyard breeder ) or a greeder. You've told us multiple times about her. We've seen her site. She breeds mutts without regard to genetics and is in no way trying to improve breeds.

Whats so wrong with selling a puppy (not including the discussion about genetics n dna testing) who doesnt necessarily live in puppymill conditions and doesnt necessarily breed the 3 to 4 pound moms (and does use the word teacup ) ive been scratching my head over this i just dont see the problem.
Breeding a dame under 5 pounds is exceedingly dangerous to her health. If a breeder isn't doing all health testing and only breeding to strengthen the breed (NOT MIXING BREEDS!!!), then he/she is hurting the health of dogs in the long run.

Because so many are so hooked on getting a TEACUP yorkie, many more than not are purposefully trying to breed a TEACUP...so as not to perpetuate the unethical breeding getting away from using the word by all breeders etc...will help...why add to the detriment that so many pups are facing. More than 90% of the breeders/PM using this term are unethical breeders and people robbing the unsuspecting customer...the responsible breeders shouldn't have to use the term....why not just explain to their customers...why use a well known word that perpetuates the stigma and causes byb's/pm's to try to actually pull it off....I get your point but there are many other things we don't say because we know it can cause a problem why would anyone want to use the term if it can cause any pup a problem?

There are also back yard breeders who are just people who pretty much put two dogs together have puppies and just want to make money and they also use the use the word teacup. The word teacup is simply a word used to jack up the prices of pup. A reputable breeder breeds for the sole purpose to better the breed so when there breeding mixes like your breeder then that automatically makes them a back yard breeder or puppy mill. Any breeder who breeds just for money is also in my opinion a back yard breeder. Your breeder has been looked into and all I can say is pray pray pray your pup stays healthy because what was found is not good not good at all.

I see all of everyone's point. Some said backyard breeders are not trying to better the breed only breeding for money fine I can agree with you on that...now what about the betterment of a the breed ,lets use my breeder for the sake of conversation, she never had an unhealthy pup before...she claims she used good lines n all akc...so if there not show dogs n she breeds healthy dogs what more can a regular pet owner ask for?

I think maybe you need to go to your breeders home and take a look around before you start singing her praises. Can you tell me you have seen her dogs? Where he dogs are living? and how she is actually treating the dogs? If not then you can't really say she is a good breeder. Many many back yard breeders and puppy mills will make there websites look great and fill there pages with lies because they don't care about anything but the money. I wish we had some compassion of website vs what is really there. I have seen some really great websites but behind that website is a shed full of cages stacked on cages and just filth. A person will 100% lie just to sell a dog it has happened many times. Unless I talked to every one of her past purchasers then I would never believe all of her dogs have been healthy. Why would you want to breed a mix when there are millions being killed in shelters every day yes millions and why would a breeder want to contribute to that?

Your breeder is playing Russian roulette with the dogs she is breeding. Many congenital diseases don't show up for years.

For instance, Chiuahah's are prone to open fontanel, Portosystemic liver shunts,luxating patellas, atlantoaxial subluxation and dental problems.

She then mixes them with:

Maltese- who are prone to Portosystemic liver shunts and MVD, Neurological problems such as Little White Shaker syndrome, PDA Shunts, luxating patellas, legs-calve perth disease, collapsed trachea, open fontanels and hydrocephalus..

Yorkies- luxating patellas, liver shunts, mvd, collapsed tracheas, legs-calve perth and so on...

And Lasha Apso's - ip dysplasia, patellar luxation, juvenile renal disease, intervertebral disc disease and eye problems such as progressive retinal atrophy, dry eye, and glaucoma.


See the over lap?

Exactly how would I have answered.

I can only answer this from my point of view, and I admittedly feel very strongly about this. As long as there is a pet overpopulation problem and MILLIONS of dogs are killed every year in shelters, then someone who is breeding better have a darn good reason for doing it.

They should be breeding to better the breed and in an attempt to create the "perfect" dog. Almost all these dogs being killed in shelters are healthy. As far as I'm concerned, this country does not need anyone else breeding only for pets. When there are no more healthy PUPPIES and dogs dying in shelters, then I'd probably be rewilling to revisit my opinion on someone breeding only for healthy dogs, though just because someone has never had an unhealthy pup doesn't mean they haven't just been lucky so far.

The best breeders who breed for betterment of the breed, and, yes, certanly put health first, are lucky to have more than one or two from any litter who are suitable to hopefully continue their lines and the rest are perfect pets.

Sadly, most people who buy from puppy mills don't even know the conditions that their puppies are coming from. Either they bought the dog from a pet store or the breeder will meet you someplace other than their house. It's a HUGE red flag if the breeder is unwilling to let you see their house/kennels etc.


I wouldn't say that someone selling a dog as a teacup necessarily means it's a puppymill breeder...but it does mean that the breeder is either a.)misinformed and doesn't know much about the breed or b.)is just using as a gimmick to sell puppies. Neither situation is good.

You said what was found is not good at all i would like to know what was found? Please inform me.

I understand where you ate coming from. I have two maltese/yorkes from the same breeder (byb). My friend got I pup and I fell in love with it so I got my own. I did go to her house and check out all of her dogs ( breeding and non breeding dogs) and where they love. She breeds because she loves both breeds and the uniqueness each pup brings since you don't know what color it will have or which traits. I know it doesn't better the bred, but I personally could care less about specific breed details. Also, since they are not purebred and yes she used the word teacup, but the prices are what I was willing to pay for a pet under $500. She did not do genetic testing just regular health testing ( saw vet records) I do not have problems with byb as long as they ask reasonable prices, no byb should ask for more than a few hundred purebred or not since they have not the extensive research or are show quality. I view breeding dogs similar to breeding horses. You breed for the traits and colors you want. That is how these original purebreds got started. I also believe you should search pounds and adoptions first before buying from a byb. Where I live they only had chihuahua mixes in the shelters and I do not care for most chihuahua personalities

Also, remember you are on a purebred website, so you will have strong advocates for pups that should meet the standard set for this breed.

yes but open frontanels are not a bad thing dogs can live there whole life with them and be healthy... everything else well yes thats why alot of vets here say mixing a two breeds together is healthier

What vets are saying that? I have never heard that one from a vet. Some people (pet owners) say it, but I have a yorkie mix here who I thought was healthy until bang, one day she was diagnosed with lymphangectasia, a condition often found in yorkies. The other breed in her did not stop that from happening. I have never heard that logic from a reliable source...would certainly like to know if it is true.

You do realize that not doing certain genetic test that are available is showing no care for the pups that the breeder is bringing into the world right?

She keeps saying this but my research has yet to find a reliable source that says that is true. I am pretty sure it was made up by people or the breeders of mixes.

When you breed two mixes together the genetics don't just pick the good things of each breed. There is no proof of this being true and just like with everything else there are bad vets.

Personally I also don't agree with someone using the word "teacup" as being a puppymill...either that's their preferred choice of wording or they may be misinformed(even if they've researched the breed in question). To me a puppymill is an individual/group who throws the animals in questions health and well being out the window to make a profit. Can someone breed as a business to make money as well as having the dog's best interest at heart? Sure! For example: I went to school for nursing because I like taking care of people, I get paid for it. If I didnt get paid for it, I would of had to look into another career choice. It's my passion and I get paid for my passion. I see nothing wrong with that. As for whether a mixed breed or purebred dog is healthier I don't agree with a mix being more healthy. I'm sure you'll find a genetic catastrophe that's a purebred because of factors such as inbreeding, breeders not researching, etc. And you'll also find a mix breed that is not healthy at all because it's in its genes. Vets all have their personal opinions regarding these topics and of course they think they're absolutely right. But unless several unbiased studies are done stating a mix is healthier than a purebred I won't say either or. I think it depends on the individual animal. Love the thread!

So much on this thread was already thoroughly covered over and over in a recent thread. I'd thought the issues discussed in depth in the thread below.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...uppy-will.html

the issue was discussed but it not dead because i still have questions as i long as im not fully convinced i will continue to ask questions

Oh! It's the first time I have seen it on here.