if you are looking for a mix breed dog please look into rescue.
I got my dog from a breeder who bred mixes, I saw my pups mom and she had a great website and was a very nice lady. She was not mean to the dogs and they lived in good conditions but she is and was a backyard breeder. She was making 'designer dogs' for money and did not do health or genetic testing. As a result I have a yorkiepoo who has several health issues, a couple very severe. His medical care probably cost me over $5,000 since I have had him (6 years). I love him and would do it again but it is not something I would recommend. A good breeder does what they do in the best interest of the dogs and of the breed. In the end go with what you think is right but you have a wealth of knowledge and experience at your disposal here at YT, take your time and research.

All questions were answered on that thread if you re-read it entirely. You have all of the answers but it seems like you just want to keep asking the same things over and over. If that thread didn't lay it all out for you over and over, then nothing anyone can ever say here will. This thread is just a re-do it seems to keep the issue going.

And really, it's not anyone's job here to convince you of anything - just post the info and let your and all readers make informed decisions. If you aren't convinced, okay. So be it. I hate to tell you but this thread isn't going to change your mind either.

I read it but i never discussed in the other thread the questions i have about breeders that may breed for money but dont treat thier dogs badly...and there are some questions n answers here that arent on the other thread...if you have a issue with me asking questions even if they are similar to the other thread's questions then dont answer i made this thread for a discussion about things im curious about if it bothers you why are you answering?

In order to make a profit breeding you either have to seriously jack up the prices of the pups or cut corners. Most bybs and puppy mills choose to cut corners like no health testing, no genetic testing, no making sure the breeding dogs are the best example of the breed, not getting the xrays or health care both the mom and puppies need, also by getting rid of the pups before 12 weeks and by not knowing the lines of the dogs your breeding. Reputable breeders who breed to better the breed rarely make a profit and when they do its not much.

It's all there on the other thread for you to read anytime - all about breeders and who felt what about the different types, their motives, their treatment of their dogs, why one shouldn't buy from certain ones, etc. All covered.

If you aren't convinced about what was detailed over and over on the other thread about breeders and what breeders' programs are wisest to support and why, that's up to you. I maintain nothing said on this thread is going to change your mind from that thread.

There is a term called hybrid vigor which is an increased vigor or other superior qualities arising from the crossbreeding of genetically different plants or animals. It is used in the breeding of some animals to produce superior offspring. Offspring may to be larger and have other desirable traits, however, hybrid vigor refers to breeding a different species to each other, dogs are the same species just different breeds and too genetically similar to benefit from hybrid vigor. Also, many of the same ailments trouble most of the toy breeds, so breeding them together wouldn’t have any advantage. "So, the next time you hear about hybrid vigor and how mutts are healthier, remember this: hybrid vigor as related to dogs is a myth."


For more information see: Hybrid Vigor

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This is YORKIEtalk. Aren't we here because we have a yorkie, wanted a yorkie, or just love yorkies? There are lots of forums out there for most of the different breeds, and then there are general dog forums, like dogster.

So, if we're here cos of our love for yorkies...we want to protect the yorkie breed.

I grew up in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England. My Nan raised yorkies. Most of my own childhood photos, include a yorkie (or 2, or 3 :) ). I grew up, had kids and I bought a yorkie for my family, that looked just like the yorkies I grew up with. I'd like for my grandkids to be able to have a yorkie that looks like the one my kids grew up with. They only way that will happen is if the breed is preserved, to the standard that has been set. That way my grandchildren's yorkie will look like the yorkies my Nan raised.

To the OP...your breeder breeds mutts, so she obviously has no interest in preserving the Yorkshire Terrier for future generations to enjoy. And where is she getting these AKC registered dogs that she's mixing??? Obviously not from a reputable breeder, as no reputable breeder would sell a dog on full registration to just anyone to breed. A great breeder has a lot invested in his/her line, so they don't just hand it over to anyone to use. So your breeder must be getting her pups from other BYB and/or puppymills.

Ok let me try and answer one of your questions
Yes, many breeders get into breeding to make money or as a hobby. While many people don't have a problem with this I personally do and many people who work with rescue do because if they are making money then they are not doing the proper genetic and health testing and often they care less about who they give the dogs to, basically any one with a checkbook will do. This is why we get so many of these designer dogs in the shelter, people are not fully educated about them or they did not get what they were expecting or they had small children but the breeder sold them a toy breed anyways. Go to your city shelter and just see how many cute fluffy mixed breed dogs are there and you will see why so many of us are so passionate about this issue. I work at a no-kill shelter where we currently have 5adorable yorkie mix dogs. We get in Chihuahua and Lhasa apso mixes all the time.
I understand where you are coming from- I too loved my breeder for the longest time. Heck I wanted my next dog from her until I found this site and learned and my dog started having health issues (which didn't show up until he was 3 years old)
If less people sold puppies less puppies would be euthanized do to overcrowding- and yes sorry to ruin your guys day but they do euthanize puppies, even cute fluffy adorable and adoptable ones. This is why we only advocate the breeding of akc registered purebreds by reputable breeders who will not make any money off these dogs or use flashy marketing terms like 'teacup' or 'micro- mini' . If you want a mutt or do not care about purebred status please support a local shelter or a breed rescue.

If I'm understanding correctly, your original questions as to the difference between a puppymill & a BYB have been answered. So has the reason why "teacup" is associated with puppymills and BYB's. So now you're interested in understanding why breeders who mix breeds for profit are not respected as much as strictly purebred breeders. I think that's what your getting at.

The reason is, a reputable breeder's goal is to "better the breed", to create the perfect example of their breed. That's why they study their lines & do so much health/genetic testing. If a breeder has a litter of puppies, she may feel as those one or two of those puppies will live up that perfect potential...if she's lucky. She will keep these dogs & continue to use them in her breeding program to continue her goal of "bettering the breed". Nothing is wrong with the other puppies from the litter. They may just not be "perfect" & fit exactly into the standard the breeder is striving to achieve. Maybe they're too small or too big, or a bit of their hair is the wrong color. These are the puppies that the breeder offers to her clients.

When a breeder mixes 2 breeds for profit, their goal is to make money - not to better the breed. She may treat her dogs well & pamper them kings and queens. But by simply mixing two (or more) breeds, purebred advocates may feel she is showing disrespect to many many years of blood, sweat & tears. Down the line, the breed they struggle so hard to perfect, ends up getting distorted & the majority of the breed seen in public is no longer "standard". Also, since this breeder's goal is to make money, she may cut corners in her breeding program. She may not do adequate health testing...and that will eventually surface in one of her puppies. If this puppy grows up to have a major health problem, or doesn't stay as small as the buyer had hoped, it may end up in a rescue or shelter. There are so many dogs in shelters that come from situations like this. A puppy from a reputable breeder does not end up in a shelter. Reputable breeders keep in touch with their clients & if for some reason their client has to give up the dog, the breeder will either take the dog herself - or find the perfect home.

I think that these are just some of the reasons why some people on this forum have an issue with breeders who breed mixes & soley for profit.

THanks all for answering most of my questions i have some answers now...When i buy a puppy next time i will either get a pure bred or go and adopt a mixed breed...for healths sake...sill may have some disagreement about other things

I have had Yorkies in my life for over thirty years, and even before that, my mom had a Yorkie. Yet I continue to learn each day, and I have learned so much from this wonderful YT community. Keep asking questions and be open to new ideas. That's what's important. From asking questions, listening, and hearing the input of others, we continually grow ourselves.

Even those of us who are friends outside of the board don't always agree on everything :D

Most of the reputable breeders I've known have barely broke even...if that. I worked for a Newfoundland Breeder(she co-owned/bred the dog that was the last Newfoundland to win the Westminster) and there is NO WAY she even came close to breaking even. I am guessing it was a tax write off for her and her husband. She did it as what I would consider more of a "hobby"...even though it was more than a full time job, and she did it for the love of the breed.

Even if people were selling puppies at top dollar, unless you are producing them all of the time, with several dogs, I just don't see how much profit can be made. The vet bills on all of the dogs in the kennel, health checks and certifications, food and grooming...and the cost of showing,handling and championing dogs is not cheap. In fact, showing dogs can get very expensive

Even with a BY/Home breeder... they are still vetting their dog while it's pregnant...it could end up having a c-section....it could end up loosing a litter or having a small litter, but the pregnancy vet bills are still the same...the puppies may need to get their tails and dewclaws done plus their first health check up...and if they breed to someone else's male, they are looking at a stud fee or pick of the litter! Plus, it's A LOT of work to have puppies. Unless they are constantly breeding dog and/or not giving them proper vet care, I have difficulty believing that anyone makes a ton of money breeding.

There are so many people in the Detroit area who think they are going to make money off from breeding their pit bulls...and all that happens is the pit bulls end up running the streets or they end up getting put to sleep at the pound.

If your prime motive is to make money or a profit; then it is highly likely the health of the dog(s) will suffer over time How much will you really dish out for emergency care of your dogs .. after all that affects your bottom line! Will you give the injections/shots yourself to save money; and not bother to educate yourself how to keep vaccines?
How much time and training and activity will you do with your dog(s), after all this costs money too, less for your bottom line.

ANd you go down the line, oh I don't actually health test my dogs, never had a problem with any pup before. Health testing is another cost that affects your bottom line.

Also many of these types offer minimal or no actual health guarantee.

Many of these types do NOT follow up with their puppys health over their lifetime; so quite frankly they really don't know what is the long term health of their puppies.

I do not agree with breeding companion animals as your sole source of income.

Really? If you really believe this, then you must believe that Zoey is going to be just fine. And... I certainly hope she is. She is such a darling little girl.

:2popkorn::animal37

This is what I know- I have yet to meet a reputable breeder who actually makes money on their litters. They all have full time jobs &/or spouses with full time jobs. They are attempting to further the breed and will probably always be loosing money.

It can easily cost $10,000 to show and title a female. I know Golden retriever breeder who spend have spent close to $21,000 before the first pups even leaves their house at 8 weeks. If they only have 10 pups and see all the pups at pet quality for 1200- The entire litter income would be $12000. Some females are only able to have 1 litter due to complications for their first delivery or may only have 1 pup- Rare but it does happen. It would require at least 4 litters for them to break even overall.

Breeding is a labor of love.

There are over 5 million healthy dogs Euthanized in the US every year. There are more than 600 million unwanted dogs on the planet. Yorkies are a favorite of Puppy Mills, Backyard Breeders....and any other kind of Breeder because they are small, inexpensive to feed....and people are willing to pay fortunes for them. Just look on YouTube some videos of Puppy Mills or Puppy Auctions and it will break your heart. If we all love our dogs....and our Yorkies...like we say we do...we can't ignore this. We should quit breeding dogs until we can take care of the ones we have. I rescued my little guy that was abandoned in the snow by a bunch of drug addicts. We love him to bits. Everyone has to wake up!

In the US and Canada there are millions of unwanted dogs murdered (euthanized) every year. If we love dogs as much as we say we do .....we have to be aware this is happening and do something about it. Breeding to 'make a few bucks' when there are so many dogs in need of homes is heartless. For every dog bought from a Breeder.....one dog is murdered. Little dogs, Purebreds, senior dogs. There are just too many dogs....and if we don't care enough to do something....who will?

Hi. Let me just address the part about making money. There's NOTHING wrong with someone wanting to make money from breeding. It's HOW they make their money that is the issue. If optimal treatment to the dogs is compromised just to increase profits, then that is not moral (don't use the word ethical - that word is often misused on this and many sites - look up the definitions). If a breeder can turn a profit while simultaneously preserving optimal health and standard of care, then that is great. IMO, someone who bashes profit-making alone for its own sake is just ignorant. However, from what I understand, it is extremely, extremely difficult to provide adequate level of care and turn a profit at the same time. Very few moral breeders end up doing for profit, rather they do it for the love of the breed. The "greeders" are the ones that don't care about the dogs. With regard to the word, "teacup", and other similar words, people need to generalize to help identify the immoral breeders and, in doing so, sometimes, capture those with purer hearts, along with the evil ones. Don't know of another way around that one, however.

I myself don't believe you will be making much money when breeding properly. I once had a male and female chow, when my female went into heat, I separated them immediately. Unfortunately my male literally chewed a hole through my back door while I was at work and got into the house to get to her. To make the best of the situation, she had the pups and I immediately had them both fixed. By the time I payed all the vet care and everything raising the pups to 12 weeks old, it cost me more than what I made :-) I just wanted healthy happy puppies and was not worried about making money, rather I was more worried that the pups were super healthy and went to the right homes. I probably could have sold them for much more than I did, as the dad had 27 champion generations before him, but I never had any intention of breeding.

On the word micro or teacup, I have issues with this, as I rescued Gizmo from such a breeder. He was in a hypoglycemic coma from being starved, from the breeder not only breeding tinies, but also starving the pups to stunt their growth, and he almost died just to fit those descriptions. It took many vet visits and care to save him, and get him healthy. Thankfully now at 6 months old he is just over 4 lbs and perfectly healthy so far and on track to be of normal size. There is no such thing as a teacup or micro.

Taken from: Fontanelle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Can you tell me why you think the above is in some way not a big deal? Forgive me if someone else posted the same information, but that particular post of yours stood out to me.
Most of the features mentioned above are characteristics people look for. I think it's called "hello kitty" look by some. So, a greeder, backyard breeder, or "person who just happened to breed dogs for some extra cash and so far has been lucky not to have sick dogs" may go for this look because it's desired. Simple basic economics right? Supply and deman right? So they try it once. Healthy puppies. Yay! Maybe I can try it again. Double yay! No sick puppies. Maybe I can do it a third time and finish paying off my car. Triple yay! So far so good. Oh wait.... A pup died because of some genetic issue (that we may not discuss based on your first post). But the puppy lived fine for 4 years so really, not my problem anymore. See the problem?

Most new puppy owners tend to look at their pup they have in front of them. If in that moment, nothing tragic happens, the breeder gets rave reviews for the cute puppy. I know I'm guilty of the same thing. As soon as Kaji came home I posted a ton of pictures and was singing the breeders praises because Kaji was home and he was fine. Then I found the fleas, and the LP, and his anxiety, the skin issues... Did you know that dispositions can also be inherited? Its been 4 years since Kaji came home. To this day, he will randomly be anxious, and wet the floor like he's scared of me. If you didn't know me and my puppy and saw that, wouldn't you think that maybe I beat him or am abusive in any way? The first year I had him, there were nights I felt like the most disgusting, vile, Absolute worst person in the world because my dog feared me when All i wanted was to love him. Do you see another problem?

good points

Knew you'd be here!!

totally agree with you, generally someone who is mixing breeds are in it for the cash without a doubt and build fables on why their dogs are the best. I saw a dreadful show called "pick a puppy" some chicka was telling people that her cross bred maltese yorkie maltipoo something else dogs were the best of all breeds, yorkies have horrid tempers and breeding in a lovely mixed malteser and something else gives you a perfect dog.
I highly doubt she did any genetic testing and I don't recall mention of medical issues of any kind. The show made me ill and a friend had told me to watch it because they thought I'd love it. Ya I loved the old lady who had been breeding Scotties for decades and interviewed the heck out of the people who came to see her, she likely turned them down, because they didn't get a Scottie

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This is a point I strongly agree with. I befriended and visited my breeder for weekends long before deciding to get a dog from her, got to hear and see her deal with potential adoptive parents and discuss the proper care and quirks of the breed. I think many people on here would encourage anyone looking for a pup or retired dog to follow what Lovetodream is suggesting.