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Rhetts_mama 08-03-2013 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4287702)
As to rescues who work with mills, my take is that they are participating in mills...I know that is not a popular opinion with many, but it is MY opinion.

I have seen people drive from Texas to Missouri to pick up yorkies from mills while yorkies are dying in shelters in Texas. So....they save those poor pups from being shot..and I DO understand how sad it is that these people kill them....but the fact is, they are merely putting a bandaid on a huge wound that needs much more....AND the fact is other pups are dying in shelters because they fill up with breeder pups. I am happy that they save them...I just cannot comprehend leaving a pup in a shelter to die and driving to make a deal with a POS miller.

I realize that we cannot stop mills easily; but I don't see HOW taking their breeding dogs that they don't use any more is doing anything to stop the breeding. The excess breeding IS the problem imho.
I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. All it's doing is making room for a new breeding dog.

JuneBugs Momma 08-03-2013 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4287702)
As to rescues who work with mills, my take is that they are participating in mills...I know that is not a popular opinion with many, but it is MY opinion.

I have seen people drive from Texas to Missouri to pick up yorkies from mills while yorkies are dying in shelters in Texas. So....they save those poor pups from being shot..and I DO understand how sad it is that these people kill them....but the fact is, they are merely putting a bandaid on a huge wound that needs much more....AND the fact is other pups are dying in shelters because they fill up with breeder pups. I am happy that they save them...I just cannot comprehend leaving a pup in a shelter to die and driving to make a deal with a POS miller.

I realize that we cannot stop mills easily; but I don't see HOW taking their breeding dogs that they don't use any more is doing anything to stop the breeding. The excess breeding IS the problem imho.

It's a double edged sword. Your damned if ya you and damned if ya don't. But it's better to save some lives than none at all.

ladyjane 08-03-2013 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4287685)
I'm breaking my ignore rule right now- please give it up. You've done nothing but argue on every thread you've been on. It's getting tiresome.

I'm glad you are involved with rescue. I'm glad Oprah gave lots of attention to mainline. Woo hoo. Wouldn't it be nice if every rescue could get the same attention and hand outs. But since they don't, I'll continue to give thanks to all the under represented, under appreciated people on this board who work tirelessly to improve the lives of ALL dogs out there, be it through fostering , donating or voting to get laws changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 4287691)
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: WE are all in this together. If only we would accept that pure fact. I say this because we are all dog lovers.

We may have different ideas, beliefs, experiences. But come on folks, no true dog lover wants, dogs kept in cages 24/7, non health tested, spewing out puppy after puppy. Denied appropriate and timely vet care.

A commercial dog breeding facility is an oxymoron. Dogs are not commerce. They are not livestock. They are future members of a loving home (hopefully).

I will always support future laws, that actually secure better living conditions for dogs in these commercial facilities. But my belief is that no dog needs or should be raised in a commercial facility.
So many breeders do their level best to stop laws from being enacted. It is very frustrating.
I understand their concerns, but so many of these commercial places are just SO out of hand.
Until laws change, dogs will suffer and die.
I know of a so called sanctuary here in Texas (not a breeder..but still a problem) where there are hundreds of animals but the man who runs it is on a large rural property and because there is no *first hand evidence* even though there is what you would call circumstantial evidence, nothing can be done. He is slick and does not allow anyone on the property...that alone is a huge red flag but it does not matter. I have spoken with the SPCA and the Humane Society...and they have investigated but their hands are tied. Laws simply do not protect animals.

ladyjane 08-03-2013 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneBugs Momma (Post 4287705)
It's a double edged sword. Your damned if ya you and damned if ya don't. But it's better to save some lives than none at all.
They can go to a shelter and save the ones that are being euthanized. They don't need to go help a miller get rid of his used up breeding stock.

The millers know what words to use to tug at the heart strings of rescuers. Many of them really don't want to shoot the dogs...or they would simply DO it.

ladyjane 08-03-2013 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4287704)
I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. All it's doing is making room for a new breeding dog.
That is how I feel about it.

lynzy420 08-03-2013 02:29 PM
Yes Linda I agree with you that these rescues who continually take dogs from puppymills are enabling them as well. Its something the groups I work with talked about in January.

Continually taking dogs that are VOLUNTARILY handed over (no longer producing etc) from the puppymills to a rescue that then claims " LOOK WHAT WE DID WE RESCUED PUPPYMILL DOGS SEND US MONEY" is more than a double edged sword it is actively participating in the perpetuation of the industry.

Pennsylvania has not enacted any new PuppyMill Laws since 2011 but I know the Governor is in receipt of several petitions etc with proposals to start real bills going...who knows, I've heard broken promises so many times...Currently PA's puppymill laws are not being enforced so that to is a problem...it seems to be a vicious cycle that few no how to end....
They are infact aiding and abetting IMHO.

Rhetts_mama 08-03-2013 02:32 PM
Lynzy,

You hit on a HUGE part of the problem. Laws that are currently on the books aren't being enforced fully or consistently. It's up to voters to demand that those laws be enforced or we will be voting out the weak law makers.

ladyjane 08-03-2013 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4287714)
Yes Linda I agree with you that these rescues who continually take dogs from puppymills are enabling them as well. Its something the groups I work with talked about in January.

Continually taking dogs that are VOLUNTARILY handed over (no longer producing etc) from the puppymills to a rescue that then claims " LOOK WHAT WE DID WE RESCUED PUPPYMILL DOGS SEND US MONEY" is more than a double edged sword it is actively participating in the perpetuation of the industry.

Pennsylvania has not enacted any new PuppyMill Laws since 2011 but I know the Governor is in receipt of several petitions etc with proposals to start real bills going...who knows, I've heard broken promises so many times...Currently PA's puppymill laws are not being enforced so that to is a problem...it seems to be a vicious cycle that few no how to end....
They are infact aiding and abetting IMHO.
I dream of a world where animals will have rights. Sadly, I won't live long enough to see it happen....I believe one day it will.

Mistymillar 08-03-2013 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4287709)
They can go to a shelter and save the ones that are being euthanized. They don't need to go help a miller get rid of his used up breeding stock.

The millers know what words to use to tug at the heart strings of rescuers. Many of them really don't want to shoot the dogs...or they would simply DO it.
Hi, just looking for clarification here for honest ignorance (not from US so don't know much really about the goings on over there) so are you saying that some rescues work regularly with puppy mills to take their poor, sick wee past it breeders rather than work locally to save strays and throwaways? Do they do this without any action on trying to close the mills?

Lovetodream88 08-03-2013 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4287702)
As to rescues who work with mills, my take is that they are participating in mills...I know that is not a popular opinion with many, but it is MY opinion.

I have seen people drive from Texas to Missouri to pick up yorkies from mills while yorkies are dying in shelters in Texas. So....they save those poor pups from being shot..and I DO understand how sad it is that these people kill them....but the fact is, they are merely putting a bandaid on a huge wound that needs much more....AND the fact is other pups are dying in shelters because they fill up with breeder pups. I am happy that they save them...I just cannot comprehend leaving a pup in a shelter to die and driving to make a deal with a POS miller.

I realize that we cannot stop mills easily; but I don't see HOW taking their breeding dogs that they don't use any more is doing anything to stop the breeding. The excess breeding IS the problem imho.
I 100% get what your saying and agree. I was thinking something similar but was a bit afraid to post it.

lynzy420 08-03-2013 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistymillar (Post 4287721)
Hi, just looking for clarification here for honest ignorance (not from US so don't know much really about the goings on over there) so are you saying that some rescues work regularly with puppy mills to take their poor, sick wee past it breeders rather than work locally to save strays and throwaways? Do they do this without any action on trying to close the mills?
Yes that is true. Here is some info. I received a couple days ago regarding the PA problem. Remember that PA is only one state with this problem, but I found this as a good resource.


http://www.auditorgen.state.pa.us/Re...gLaw071113.pdf

ladyjane 08-03-2013 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistymillar (Post 4287721)
Hi, just looking for clarification here for honest ignorance (not from US so don't know much really about the goings on over there) so are you saying that some rescues work regularly with puppy mills to take their poor, sick wee past it breeders rather than work locally to save strays and throwaways? Do they do this without any action on trying to close the mills?
I cannot say that they ALL do that, but yes, I have seen people ignore the pups in the shelters and drive to Missouri to get some from a mill.

I am not saying these people are heartless or don't care....I believe they think they are doing the right thing. Look...they are saving animals from horrific conditions....I am saying that they cannot see the forest for the trees. Those poor animals being abused and used by the millers tug at their heartstrings and they don't see anything else. It is EXTREMELY difficult to know that if you ignore an email about a mill release the pups might die; but I believe in priorities and I believe the pups in shelters should come first.

Lovetodream88 08-03-2013 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4287720)
I dream of a world where animals will have rights. Sadly, I won't live long enough to see it happen....I believe one day it will.
Me to it makes me so sad because they breathe, they feel pain, they feel love the just feel they deserve rights too!

lynzy420 08-03-2013 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistymillar (Post 4287721)
Hi, just looking for clarification here for honest ignorance (not from US so don't know much really about the goings on over there) so are you saying that some rescues work regularly with puppy mills to take their poor, sick wee past it breeders rather than work locally to save strays and throwaways? Do they do this without any action on trying to close the mills?
Wow never realized you were in Ireland!! Erin Go Braugh!!! Lol, we have a huge Irish Community here in NY and St. Patty's Day is a four day party! Green Beer and Danny Boy!

ladyjane 08-03-2013 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4287730)
Me to it makes me so sad because they breathe, they feel pain, they feel love the just feel they deserve rights too!
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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