Would love to hear your opinions.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I just personally don't think the general public cares enough to suggest to them with females to let there female go through heat first and to possibly not fix there males. People on this board are different but I know a lot of people who if they didn't have there dogs fixed simi early there would be lots of pregnancies that just shouldn't have happened. I know someone who lets there intact male have full run of the neighborhood and have made many many females in the neighborhood pregnant but the owner just doesn't care. Not everyone should have an intact dog and I think suggesting to people who don't care as much about there dogs as we do on this board is such a bad idea.

Oh, I absolutely agree! I think the general public should NOT own unaltered dogs.

But I think that a knowledgeable owner coming on YT deserves to know all of the information -- good and bad.

[Yorkieaddict22]

Originally Posted by Britster

Oh, I absolutely agree! I think the general public should NOT own unaltered dogs.

But I think that a knowledgeable owner coming on YT deserves to know all of the information -- good and bad.

Its a personal choice I altered female and not my male. He's my baby, doesn't leave my side. I think it's up to the person, my male has never had intercourse and at the dog park he's leashed. 4 years old and never had a prob.

[Jacksmom052709]

I love Price Is Right and have always listened to Bob Barker and Drew Carey - spay and neuter your pets - there are way too many unwanted dogs in animal shelters and rescues. I know you say he is with you 24/7 but just go to the breeders threads here and you will see how many "oops / mistakes" there are with unaltered pets. Just my opinion of course. I had Jack neutered at 5 months and Izzy at 5 months also. I know there will be no unwanted pregnancies - I'm way too young to be a grandma . Also, Jack had just started marking in the house and that was one of the reasons why I had him neutered at 5 months. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Jacksmom052709

I love Price Is Right and have always listened to Bob Barker and Drew Carey - spay and neuter your pets - there are way too many unwanted dogs in animal shelters and rescues. I know you say he is with you 24/7 but just go to the breeders threads here and you will see how many "oops / mistakes" there are with unaltered pets. Just my opinion of course. I had Jack neutered at 5 months and Izzy at 5 months also. I know there will be no unwanted pregnancies - I'm way too young to be a grandma . Also, Jack had just started marking in the house and that was one of the reasons why I had him neutered at 5 months. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Infact go to the breeders threads now...dear lord I can't take another ooops...

[gemy]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Infact go to the breeders threads now...dear lord I can't take another ooops...

I get it, I truly do, but I can not countenance whole sale remarks on how it is better un-equivocally for the health of your pet to de-sex them at an early age. The fact of the matter is, that it is far from certain, and the evidence is building to a pre-ponderance of evidence.

In my mind there needs to be another reason, that can be "sold" to the public on why to de-sex your dog at the appropriate time, along with information on alternatives to full spay or a full neuter; such as tubal ligation and or vascetomies.

So hey what is wrong with saying, spay neuter your dog at an age appropriate time frame for their health, this way you 100% contribute to never bringing un wanted dogs into the population at a minimum to moderate risk to your dogs overall health.

[Lil Sis]

Originally Posted by gemy

I get it, I truly do, but I can not countenance whole sale remarks on how it is better un-equivocally for the health of your pet to de-sex them at an early age. The fact of the matter is, that it is far from certain, and the evidence is building to a pre-ponderance of evidence.

In my mind there needs to be another reason, that can be "sold" to the public on why to de-sex your dog at the appropriate time, along with information on alternatives to full spay or a full neuter; such as tubal ligation and or vascetomies.

So hey what is wrong with saying, spay neuter your dog at an age appropriate time frame for their health, this way you 100% contribute to never bringing un wanted dogs into the population at a minimum to moderate risk to your dogs overall health.

all good points.. it sure has made me think. I may not neuter the dd's dog but do a vascetomie. I will do research..thank you for the info

[gracielove]

I have always seen much better behavior out of dogs that are neutered than those who are not.
My father's 3 un-neutered dogs were always fighting over every little thing and seemed to be high strung. When he finally consented to having them neutered they became much better behaved dogs over time.

It is true that a whole make can smell a female dog in heat for miles away. This may incite the escape artiest in any male dog and you could find you have a guy that tries to slip out the door every time you open it. It can create much more high strung behavior, even neurotic behavior from some.

Marking can be an issue in a whole male. I have honestly never seen so many complaints about male marking as I have here on YT. I personally don't know how I would ever deal with that kind of issue.

When my kids were young we had a male Yellow Lab. My husband did not want to have him neutered. He was a good dog and only marked outside but he was constantly trying to get out the door! With the kids being young he could easily sneak up behind them and push out the door when they were opening the door. He would also try to get out of our fenced yard. The fact that he was so desperate to go roaming made it quite evident he was seeking a girlfriend. We finally got him neutered at age 2. Since the male hormones are already throughout the dog's body by that age it took a few months before he really settled down. He became much more social with the family and stopped the high strung behavior.

It is my personal opinion that a male dog that is not to be used for breeding is a much happier pet if he is neutered.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by KimInMD

I've been spayed. I'm still not content to stay at home, and I gained weight. I don't scent mark anymore though.

I think you're in need of some training.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by gracielove

I have always seen much better behavior out of dogs that are neutered than those who are not.
My father's 3 un-neutered dogs were always fighting over every little thing and seemed to be high strung. When he finally consented to having them neutered they became much better behaved dogs over time.

It is true that a whole make can smell a female dog in heat for miles away. This may incite the escape artiest in any male dog and you could find you have a guy that tries to slip out the door every time you open it. It can create much more high strung behavior, even neurotic behavior from some.

Marking can be an issue in a whole male. I have honestly never seen so many complaints about male marking as I have here on YT. I personally don't know how I would ever deal with that kind of issue.

When my kids were young we had a male Yellow Lab. My husband did not want to have him neutered. He was a good dog and only marked outside but he was constantly trying to get out the door! With the kids being young he could easily sneak up behind them and push out the door when they were opening the door. He would also try to get out of our fenced yard. The fact that he was so desperate to go roaming made it quite evident he was seeking a girlfriend. We finally got him neutered at age 2. Since the male hormones are already throughout the dog's body by that age it took a few months before he really settled down. He became much more social with the family and stopped the high strung behavior.

It is my personal opinion that a male dog that is not to be used for breeding is a much happier pet if he is neutered.

Gracie we all have our individual experiences, that is why research is so great and needed. They the researches amass 100's or 1000's or 10,000's of individual experiences, that can not hope to match in number or variety our individual experiences with dogs.

I will share a true story I have told before. I was at a workshop with Dr Chris Zinc for training for the performance dog. What is unusual here, is that most dogs were intact. Males and Females, we had about 60 dogs and owners in the room. And in case you are wondering, it is no accident that performance dogs (and note I don't say show dogs) are not de-sexed.

Dr Chris Zink as part of a performance lecture, and a germane point to other parts of her lecture;; asked the question to the group. How many of you here with intact dogs have experienced aggression from neutered animals? There was a huge preponderance of hands raised. The research seems to bear this out. That overall aggression to other dogs and or ppl, is not the intact dog, but the neutered or spayed dog.

We all have individual experiences that may fly in the light of this statement. Again I stress that this is where research has much to teach us.

No matter how long I live, and how much I interact with my dogs, and other dogs, in training, in competition, I will never have or be exposed to 10,000 dogs of various breeds in various situations.

[suda]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Intact males can smell a female in heat miles away and they will lose there mind and do things that can really hurt themselves to get to the female in heat. Also with all the thefts of yorkies being intact would make him "worth" more money and he could get sold to a puppy mill. He also could get testicular cancer. Could mark and could have aggression with other males.

My hubby had testicular cancer maybe he should have been fixed too
No really, I would worry too much if my boy was not fixed, I couldn't handle him being aggressive to other dogs or roaming and the marking would certainly annoy me.

[gracielove]

Originally Posted by gemy

Gracie we all have our individual experiences, that is why research is so great and needed. They the researches amass 100's or 1000's or 10,000's of individual experiences, that can not hope to match in number or variety our individual experiences with dogs.

I will share a true story I have told before. I was at a workshop with Dr Chris Zinc for training for the performance dog. What is unusual here, is that most dogs were intact. Males and Females, we had about 60 dogs and owners in the room. And in case you are wondering, it is no accident that performance dogs (and note I don't say show dogs) are not de-sexed.

Dr Chris Zink as part of a performance lecture, and a germane point to other parts of her lecture;; asked the question to the group. How many of you here with intact dogs have experienced aggression from neutered animals? There was a huge preponderance of hands raised. The research seems to bear this out. That overall aggression to other dogs and or ppl, is not the intact dog, but the neutered or spayed dog.

We all have individual experiences that may fly in the light of this statement. Again I stress that this is where research has much to teach us.

No matter how long I live, and how much I interact with my dogs, and other dogs, in training, in competition, I will never have or be exposed to 10,000 dogs of various breeds in various situations.

I'm sure there is always an exception to every rule. With dogs there is such a wide variety of people and the type of lifestyle they and their pets live. Where I live thee is not a great incidence of proper dog training done with most pets. People either train them just enough to be tolerable in the house or don't bother and tie them out back. Sadly, I have observed much the same attitude throughout my travels to various places.

I'm sure performance dogs and other dogs used for competition are much better trained than the average pet. My father later got involved in agility training with dogs and they were about perfect in behavior.

It would seem that normal everyday pets that have little obedience training and are not exercised very much would be the ones to develop personality problems more easily than a well trained dog used for competition.

Dogs just don't react sexually the same as a male human. They are stimulated by scent. It is not a visual thing like with a human male. That is one situation that cannot be controlled for a male dog. They are bothered by the scent of a female in heat and there is no way to prevent that. You may be able to control the behavior but you cannot change the amount of frustration it causes the male. That is my main issue with a non neutered male.

[pstinard]

Well, I did a Google Scholar search for recent articles about the advantages and disadvantages of spaying and neutering dogs. There are two major lines of thought--the American veterinary viewpoint, which is that all dogs not used for breeding purposes should be spayed and neutered, and the European veterinary viewpoint, which is that each animal should be considered on an individual basis. The American viewpoint takes into consideration the population, behavioral, and health aspects. The European viewpoint considers these same aspects, plus some philosophical aspects. Also, the European viewpoint downplays the population aspects since strays and unwanted dogs are less common there than in the US. Here are links to two of the articles, but some of you may not be able to view them if you are not logged in from a university computer that has an on-line subscription:

(1) Effects of Surgical Sterilization on Canine and Feline Health and on Society, by MV Root Kustritz.
Reprod Dom Anim 47 (Suppl. 4), 214–222 (2012); doi: 10.1111/j.1439-0531.2012.02078.x

Effects of Surgical Sterilization on Canine and Feline Health and on Society - Root Kustritz - 2012 - Reproduction in Domestic Animals - Wiley Online Library

(2) Inconvenient Desires: Should We Routinely Neuter Companion Animals? by Clare Palmer, Sandra Corr, and Peter Sandøe. ANTHROZOÖS VOLUME 25, SUPPLEMENT PP. S153–S172. 2012

http://ilurbana.library.ingentaconne...103s1/art00010

Article #1 is written from the American viewpoint, and gives a dispassionate list of the pros and cons of neutering and spaying. Article #2 is written from the European viewpoint. If you cannot view article #2, I can fairly summarize it by saying that there are good reasons for spaying a female dog not used for breeding purposes, but that there are good ethical reasons for not neutering male dogs. For purposes of fair comment, I'll copy some of the material from the second article below:

ABSTRACT
Influential parts of the veterinary profession, and notably the American Veterinary Medicine Association, are promoting the routine neutering of cats and dogs that will not be used for breeding purposes. However, this view is not universally held, even among representatives of the veterinary profession. In particular, some veterinary associations in Europe defend the view that when reproduction is not an issue, then neutering, particularly of dogs, should be decided on a case-by-case basis. However, even in Europe the American view is gaining ground. In light of this situation, this paper considers whether or not routine neutering of cats and dogs, in cases where uncontrolled reproduction is not an issue, can be ethically defended. The starting point of this consideration is a review of the veterinary literature on the effects of neutering on companion animals. The focus is both on the welfare of neutered animals themselves, and on behavioral and other effects that may not directly affect the animals’ welfare, but that may be motivating factors for owners to neuter their companion animals. Here it becomes clear that justification for routine neutering, particularly of confined male dogs, does not follow from claims about the dogs’ own welfare. The costs of neutering male dogs, in terms of the increased risk of very serious diseases, may well outweigh the benefits. Then, building on this veterinary material, but including some other, additional considerations, the paper goes through some possible ethical approaches to routine animal neutering. These ethical approaches offer different degrees of concern about, or opposition to, routine neutering. Finally, based on this ethical exploration, it is argued that routine neutering, at least in the case of non-free-ranging companion animals, raises significant ethical questions, and from some ethical perspectives, looks highly problematic.

Conclusion
The starting point for the discussion in this paper was the observation that influential parts of the veterinary profession, and notably the American Veterinary Medicine Association, are promoting routine neutering of cats and dogs that will not be used for breeding purposes. This view is not universally held, even among representatives of the veterinary profession. In particular, some veterinary associations in Europe defend the view that when reproduction is not an issue, then neutering, particularly of dogs, should be decided on a case-by-case basis. However, the American view seems to be gaining ground in Europe, and it is worth noting that the veterinary profession has obvious commercial interests at stake in the practice of routine neutering. In light of this situation, the present paper considers whether or not routine neutering of cats and dogs, in cases where companions are anyway prevented from producing, can be ethically defended. Our overall conclusion is that routine neutering of companion animals, and notably male dogs, is not morally justified. This conclusion is based on the following two arguments:

Firstly, the view of the American Veterinary Medicine Association does not seem to be justified even if one only looks at the kind of evidence-based veterinary arguments that this organization seems to take as the main basis of its policy recommendations. Rather it should, in the case of companions where uncontrolled reproduction is not an issue, recommend that decisions on neutering should be taken on an individual and case-by-case basis. Particularly in the case of male dogs, given the long-term health risks involved, specific reasons are required to recommend castration.

However, the veterinary literature takes a rather narrow view, both concerning which concerns are relevant when deciding whether or not to neuter a companion animal, and how to weigh these concerns. Therefore, there’s a need to bring in a wider set of ethical considerations, as we have tried to do here. There is no unanimously agreed ethical framework that can serve as the basis for such an analysis. So to give a fair account of the matter, in which the authors don’t impose a specific moral view on the readers, three approaches that cover much of the relevant ethical spectrum (however, excluding purely anthropocentric approaches) are presented and applied to the issue of routine neutering. This leads on to the second argument, which is that even though the three ethical approaches differ regarding many specific issues, they do seem largely to converge on the view that routine neutering of companions where reproduction is otherwise under control is not justified.

Thus, there are good reasons both from a narrow point of view considering only veterinary evidence, and from wider ethical reflection, to be skeptical of the idea of routine neutering of companions. This of course does not mean that no-one can rationally claim that routine neutering of companions is morally acceptable. However, for someone to claim this, they must argue either that there are relevant considerations of animal welfare that have been overlooked in our review, or they must endorse an ethical approach (possibly a combination of consequentialism and a definition of welfare in terms of preference satisfaction) that will permit, or even prescribe, routine neutering.

[pstinard]

AAHA Canine Life Stage Guidelines. By Joe Bartges, PhD, DVM, DACVIM, DACVN, Beth Boynton, DVM, Amy Hoyumpa Vogt, DVM, DABVP (Canine and Feline), Eliza Krauter, CVT, Ken Lambrecht, DVM, Ron Svec, DVM, Steve Thompson, DVM, DABVP (Canine and Feline). J Am Anim Hosp Assoc 2012; 48:1–11. DOI 10.5326/JAAHA-MS-4009)

It's a fabulous, fabulous article that describes all of the health care concerns that should be routinely addressed by vets at all stages of a dog's life. It's written in layman's terms (by and large) and I highly recommend that everyone read it, if they have on-line access.

The link to the on-line article (which probably won't work for most people ) is below:

Sign In

Abstract: Guidelines are offered to guide the veterinary practitioner in designing a comprehensive, individualized wellness plan for each stage of a dog’s life. Life stages are defined by both age and breed characteristics for practical purposes. Each patient visit should use an individualized approach to patient handling, preventive care, and early disease detection. Environment, behavior, nutrition, parasite control, vaccinations, dental care, zoonotic disease control, safety, and reproductive health should be addressed.

[The 4 M]

wow brings a whole new meaning to "No Ball play" lol. have never heard of a park banning dogs that way.
My baby boys have all bits included lol. I feel the same in the way of been scared by the operation, also my mams yorkie Benji was done for medical reasons and he has changed, not for the better either, he used to be a lovely friendly dog now he is really grumpy, isolates himself, gained weight even tho he doesnt eat more than before, and something that I hear a lot but the other way on he never used to mark indoors now he does, all my boys don't mark in the house and never have, this is just my experience.

[gemy]

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...n-if-ever.html