Help with my Yorkie.. I think I have ruined him anti-social (long)

[georgepie]

I don't know.. he seems spiteful.. I was practising him to wait to eat..(first time I ever did that) I was saying no sit and made him wait about 2-3min before going to the bowl he then peed right beside the bowl after.

The bark busters seems to focus on dominance but saying bah and throwing bags of at the dog saying bah seems weird..

[yorkietalkjilly]

Oh my goodness, hon, that is not a good idea to make a dog just starting rehab from the type of behavior you described in your first post to wait 2 long minutes beside his food bowl for the poor thing's meal. Let me take some time to explain - it's long but hopefully will help you see why that wasn't a good idea to do now. During what you did, making him wait that long, his senses had to be flooded with the smell and proximity of his food and he, with very little in the way of impulse control from your original description, was not permitted by his person/leader to eat yet and then for two long minutes' wait! Dogs' senses of smell are highly advanced and to be so near his food, that scent flooding his nostrils, had to be thrilling and so enticing. His eyes, so near, could see his food right there. He's not very well trained, he's impulsive and has had little in the way of boundaries and yet, here he is sitting by his food and smelling and seeing it, all his body flooded with desire for his food and action - and he is prevented from eating for two long minutes! Only dogs in an advanced state of obedience training should be asked to go against their natural desire to feed themselves for that long, and that needs to be worked up to over weeks and weeks of training, once a good basic obedience course has been aced by the dog.

At first, as part of the Nothing In Life Is Free program, a dog is asked to sit or lie down and wait for his food, but he should just be asked to wait seconds, 5 or 10 to start.
But two minutes wait? You don't try this type of thing without getting a dog who realizes that you are not a trustworthy person right now. For a little guy who is still acting out because he hasn't had good leadership and little in the way of consistent or reasonable boundaries, you will need to work way up on the basics before you ask your dog to wait that long just to get his meal. No wonder the little guy is acting up if you are expecting this type of thing from him, to be honest. (Don't feel bad - we've all been there! ) I realize that you are just new at this but things like that can cause a dog to feel extremely frustrated and his nerves were likely frayed to the point of breaking at the end when he finally got to eat. He was probably full of thoughts of confusion as he tried to process what just happened and ate his meal.

No doubt he peed there at the scene out of sheer frustration. Dogs frequently scent-mark out of absolute frustration and tension they just can't control - kind of like when we break into tears or throw something when standing near where something upsetting or extremely unfair happened to us. They can't throw things or cry - they can only pee or bite or do something we don't like. He wasn't being spiteful - he was trying not to break! He needed a release and all he could do was scent-mark the place where he had such a bad time. It was a simple release of nerves - that's all.

Sorry that was long but I want you to try to see it from the dog's point of view. Once you can see things like a dog, you can train one much easier and faster and with loving compassion, keep it rewarding and fun. Dogs will work their little butts off for someone who trains like that and seems to "get" them - really thinks like they do.

I would just start with good, basic obedience and work patiently with your dog to grow as a trusted packleader in his mind, being enthusiastic and rewarding his doing his tricks with praise and treats. Once he is very good at the basics, keep adding things for him to learn to forge a tighter working relationship and bond - forming a team. Intersperse that training with interfering with bad behavior and stopping it in the way I described in an earlier post, by standing up walking over maintaining eye contact, pointing and backing him off the bad behavior and then waiting there until he turns away. You then monitor him with continued and obvious eye contact and a sentient body attitude until he has turned his interest to something else or you have suggested another activity or to to to his bed, etc.

In addition to that basic training with very short but frequent walks using the loose lead method and good play sessions, followed by some time outside to pee/potty.

In time, after a good long while of training and your dog is behaving much better, you can then advance to teaching waiting periods of time to test his ability to control his impulses in down/stays or sit/stays as you walk away from him, leave the room, etc., but to go to quickly from the behavior you described in your first post only days ago, with so little basis in good, positive-reward training and a long period of trust and leadership by you having been long established in his mind, to today, making him wait a long, long time beside his food bowl to eat, is pretty stressful for a dog - any dog, let alone the one you described in that original post.

I would not try that again for quite some time. In the Nothing In Life Is Training method, dogs are required to sit and wait before getting their food but that is something you work up to after a good basis in training has been established and the dog knows he can trust you. Once trust has been long established, a dog will happily wait for things as he knows what you are asking of him, even if it seems hard, is a part of the training he has come to love and, besides that, he's in excellent control of his impulses by then and you have gradually worked up to waiting from mere seconds at first to up to a minute gradually. When a dog trusts you, he knows you will never require too much of him too soon and that the reward for doing what you ask is going to be big - really special. So he will in time even wait up to 2 minutes to get his food without frustration and tension because a longtime basic of training and trust and teamwork has been forged over time. Even then, a two minute wait for a meal seems as if it could be stressful for anything but a very advanced obedience-trained dog and there are much more effective ways to use your time than that kind of thing.

I would urge you to keep looking strenuously for a good trainer to come out and work with you and teaching you how to understand your dog and train him humanely, making it fun and interesting for him. It sounds as if your expectations are unrealistic and tells me you are not very dog savvy but in time, with enough study and a good trainer to work with you, you will get there. You will! We all make mistakes with our dogs and the thing to do is let those times be a spur to start to buy or check-out dog-training and dog-psychology books from the library and read, read, read - studying all that you can about how dogs think, learn and process things that happen in their lives. It is far wiser to spend the next weeks studying about dogs and finding a good trainer to teach/mentor you through basic obedience training and loose leash walking than anything else, even if your dog keeps acting up in the process. Because that way, you won't be harming your dog's trust in you or stressing him unnecessarily by unreasonable things and will be filling your brain with knowledge about dogs. In time, you will begin to understand the how and why of them and what works for them best and what doesn't and when you do train him, it will be productive. Every day read and study and keep doing just plain old basic obedience with lots of praise and rewards using some treats that motivate the dog until you can find yourself some help. In a year's time, you can be a very knowledgeable person with fine dog skills if you will spend time learning how before you try. Don't stress over this, realize everyone makes mistakes - learn from it and go forward from this point. In a year, you won't know your dog, he will be so well-behaved!

[georgepie]

So I researched Bark Busters for hours last night.. terrifying. The scare tactics are terrible... I cancelled it. George and I are set up to start basic obedience training for an hour once a week after this Saturday when we meet the trainer here.. she teaches with positive reinforcement.

He sits a lot the past few days.. he is sitting right now.. I didn't know you don't do that with the food. I just thought I would see if he would listen..oopps. I got a book Unleashed on sale and will look for more suggestions from this site.

I guess with this little guy I won't be able to ever put him on my furniture, lap, or bed????? The trainer also said I would have to get a crate during the 8 week training process for potty and what not.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Don't worry about it - you didn't know not to stress him like that right now. Once he's into training and you two have a working team together, you can have him wait/stay in place and things like that to increase the amount of time he's able to stay in place on command, starting with a short time and working up. And yes, once you learn some dog handling skills and how to assume authority, gain respect in your dog's eyes, in time you can allow him to do anything since he will be well-behaved and even doing those things he will know that sleeping with you, lap time and things like that are not an invitation to run the pack - just merely something he's allowed to do. It's just for now while he's in training and rehab from a life of much misbehavior that you aren't allowing these things. Once he's totally under your control and happy to do what you say, he can be allowed to do anything you like. Your trainer and your study will show you the signs to watch out for that might indicate he could be slipping into dominance or aggressive misbehavior again. If you make mistakes along the way, you can correct those with many good times and trusting situations to come. He'll forgive and move on. Dogs live for today and don't hold grudges but you can lose their trust so go by the instructions for how to train in basic obedience and how long to do it and don't exceed any of those things right now. I so hope that your trainer works out and is a good one - will teach you what you need to know about how to train your dog without water bombs, squirting him or dumping water on him, throwing chains or shaking cans, buying special collars for correction and growling at him and things. Those things can work for some dogs and some dogs they frighten and intimidate so basically I don't care for them since there are other ways using body attitude, your hands, eyes, tone of voice, etc. You just basically need your two hands, a harness and a short leash and you and your dog. Be sure to make training fun for your dog and keep your tone matter-of-fact and stay unemotional when he misses it or forgets, messes up and he will - that is part of training! He'll learn in time. Good luck and keep us updated.

[Melina Bea]

I don't have a Yorkie yet, or any advice for the OP, I just wanted to say that Jeanie's posts are amazing. They're really helping me understand things for future reference!

OP, kudos on trying to sort things out now, it must be so overwhelming, but the fact you're here and trying is impressive.

[gemy]

Jeanie I have to say, you take such great care and do such a fine job of explaining things to beginners.

To the OP if you need me to continue to explore Ottawa trainers let me know.

And Jeannie is so very right - 2minutes is way too long in the beginning to allow a baby dog in terms of obedience to wait for dinner! With my older dogs - Only every once in a while do I make them wait for 2minutes. This is usually as I am building up to another competition. I do not use removing their dinner or breakfast as a "punishment" for misbehaviour. Some trainers will - and I am not saying it is wrong per say. It is just a bedrock of belief in my make - up. I will never starve my dogs - even if for only a day to get them to behave.

I do other behaviour modification techniques. And yes I do use removal from my presence as one of the ultimate punishments! It works very very well. But that is because we have years of history, with working together, with training together; we truly are each other best friends. They know when they dont get to go into the backyard with me - when I discipline them with my voice and walk out the door without them - they have mis-behaved.