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02-22-2013, 07:18 PM | #16 | |
and Khloe Mae's too! Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Washington
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02-25-2013, 07:55 AM | #17 |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Reading, PA, USA
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| New study says dogs with docked tails significantly less likely to sustain tail injuries says Veterinary Record Tail Docking - The Case for Tail Docking I think I would much rather put a 3 day old puppy through a few minutes stress than having to deal with an adult dog having an amputation due to tail breakage. Some studies are now finding that certain breeds of dogs in particular, are having larger and larger numbers of adult amputations, which are more traumatic and painful for the dog due to tail breakage, particularly dogs with thin whippy tails. I do look at them with somewhat of a skeptical eye, because I do not know of any that do not have an agenda. And what about dewclaws. Yes, they are there for a reason, but most breeders remove them for a reason as well, and that being to reduce the likelihood of the dews getting ripped off, which I have seen on more than one occasion. What's the difference between getting the dews done and the tail? Not only that, but I resent the anti-docking agenda which is being funded and propagating in large part by the animal rights extremists. It completely boggles my mind that docking a tail at 3 days old equals cruelty in some minds, yet sterilizing an animal is completely acceptable, and even expected, and no one sees how much more damaging THAT is. Is the US behind on some things? Yes, I think it is. I believe that ALL cropped and docks breeds should have the option to show uncropped and undocked. The Beauceron standard, for example, allows for cropped and natural, with definitions for what the natural ear should look like. Beauceron breeds have a CHOICE in what they can do with their dogs, and BOTH ear types are (or should be) judged equally. The same should be done in all breeds for tails and ears. Right now, docked breeds in Europe have tails all over the place. They have high carriage, low carriage, fringe and feathers, thick and otter like and thin and whippy. In yorkies, there are some that have very thin feathering on the tail, making the tail look unappealing, because we have not had anything in the standard that says what the yorkie tail should look like, and the look of the yorkie tail has not been bred into the breed in the ENTIRE HISTORY of the breed. Now we're supposed to know what a yorkie's tail should look like? Have you SEEN what the UK has as an accepted look for the yorkie tail? Have you SEEN what they have now added to the yorkie standard as what the correct and proper yorkie tail, (that no one in the history of the breed has ever seen) should look like? Have a look at their picture. The Kennel Club] And the standard description? Previously customarily docked Docked: Medium length with plenty of hair, darker blue in colour than rest of body, especially at end of tail. Carried a little higher than level of back. Undocked: Plenty of hair, darker blue in colour than rest of body, especially at end of tail. Carried a little higher than level of back. As straight as possible. Length to give a well balanced appearance. Sounds like an Irish setter tail to me. And they look all over the place, as this gallery of winners show.. when you can find a tail, since most of the pics, the handler is clearly hiding the back end for some reason. Limit Show Jan 2013 The nicest tail in my opinion is that of the number 5 dog. But here on this forum, most people seem to have dogs with tails that curl over their backs. You have low swooping tails, you have tails being held high like a field bred setter, you have tails held out, then dropping down... Even on dogs that looked to me to be young dogs, so they should have had their tails, there was a lack of evidence of tails visible. Northern Counties Yorkshire Terrier Club I see two tails. The first picture seems to have a dog with a natural tail, but if you LOOK at the picture, that's not a tail, it's the bottom opening of the handler's blazer. But if you go all the way to the bottom right picture there is a visible tail. Standing straight up like a flag pole. Last of all, in the US there is this VERY important thing to consider. Backyard breeders rarely dock tails. When they do, it's a piss poor job. If you know what a good docked tail is, you can tell by the length of the tail, and the look of the tail, (as in if the tip is bald) if the dog came from someone halfway decent. This is because backyard breeders dock too short, usually, and they often will do something as barbaric as rubber banding the tail, which leaves a bald spot, OR when they DO cut the tail, they usually don't pull the skin back, cut the tail, and then stitch the top skin flap over the bottom, making an aesthetically pleasing dock. Because of that, I'm glad that docking is still required, though as I have said, I would much rather it be a choice that breeders can utilize, and be acceptable in the show ring.
__________________ When there is no ultimate authority, we must gather as much information as possible and decide for ourself what we believe. ~Teresa Ford Last edited by Belle Noir; 02-25-2013 at 07:59 AM. Reason: spelling |
02-25-2013, 08:20 AM | #18 | |
and Khloe Mae's too! Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Washington
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02-25-2013, 08:23 AM | #19 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hope Mills, NC, USA
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| Keep discussion civil please. I docked the tail because I wanted to. Not to avoid injuries, not to be able to show him. Because I wanted to. I like the docked look, he's my dog, I spent my money, and my vet was experienced and comfortable doing it.
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02-25-2013, 08:45 AM | #20 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Reading, PA, USA
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What has changed? We don't see a lot of GSDs and collies needing tail amputations. However, in breeds of dogs with thin whippy tails in breeds that have traditionally been docked, there has been a marked increase of amputations because these dogs are breaking their tails. We're not talking incidental injuries, and because a full amputation is not being done in the first case, a number of these dogs end up having 2-3 amputations to their tail, to get the tail to the point where the dog stops breaking it. Two or three major surgeries, with all the accompanying pain and confusion that comes from an amputation. Ironically enough, that point is just about where the breed was traditionally docked, but I'm sure that was just a coincidence, and has nothing to do with the originators of the breeds and standards knowing what they were talking about and setting that as the point of docking for a reason.
__________________ When there is no ultimate authority, we must gather as much information as possible and decide for ourself what we believe. ~Teresa Ford | |
02-25-2013, 08:47 AM | #21 | |
and Khloe Mae's too! Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Washington
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I don't think you need to moderate this discussion It is plenty civil. People are allowed to express their opinions. This is something I am rather passionate about... I have a dog with a tail and one without. My little girl has a full, beautiful tail and it has never been injured. She also has her dew claws and they have never once caused an issue. I see this as mutilation and while you chose to do it to your dog... It is not something I would choose for mine. I understand that it is the standard, but it is something that should be changed. More civilized countries have done this, and I believe that we should follow suit.
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02-25-2013, 08:54 AM | #22 |
YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Reading, PA, USA
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| I don't feel as though those other countries are more civilized. More.. misguided.. More.. authoritarian, more.. easily swayed by animal rights activists, but not necessarily more civilized. Those anti-docking laws didn't come through because the breeders wanted them. They were forced on the breeders by lawmakers who passed them because of lobbying from ARAs. I really don't care about the "look" of the breed. I care about the choice. I don't understand that you don't get that I'm saying the same thing, but from a different angle, which is why I would LOVE it if breeders had a CHOICE in if their dogs were docked or natural. How nice would it be if yorkies could be shown with a natural tail? But that should be an option, a choice, and neither natural or docked should be penalized in the show ring. Also, as I stated, at this point in time, a docked tail, as HOW it's docked can help determine the provenance of a dog. You can get a good read on if the dog came from a decent breeder or not, since MOST back yard breeders do NOT dock tails. And if they're not going to put the money out for a vet to dock their puppies tails, how much do you think they spent on health checks for their dogs. Just saying.
__________________ When there is no ultimate authority, we must gather as much information as possible and decide for ourself what we believe. ~Teresa Ford |
02-25-2013, 09:06 AM | #23 | |
and Khloe Mae's too! Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Washington
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I respect that you have a different opinion, and appreciate that we are able to discuss this
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02-25-2013, 09:06 AM | #24 | |
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__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals | |
02-25-2013, 09:12 AM | #25 | |
and Khloe Mae's too! Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Washington
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02-25-2013, 09:47 AM | #26 | |
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__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals Last edited by Nancy1999; 02-25-2013 at 09:48 AM. | |
02-25-2013, 09:51 AM | #27 |
Senior Yorkie Talker | Have read all comments I'm from the UK and no we don't dock tails or remove dew claws, I love my babies tails and think seeing a yorkie without a tail looks funny (before any1 jumps) when I was growing up we had 2 yorkies that had tails docked as then it was still allowed again we loved those 2 yorkies without tails, all I would worry about is the fact they could get infected when this is done as very small puppies just having had my first and only litter it was a scary worrying time to start with without an added worry of something I would be doing causing an open wound meaning I had caused the puppy to get sick without question.
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02-25-2013, 10:57 AM | #28 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: uk
Posts: 43
| why would you even think about doing it ? |
02-25-2013, 11:03 AM | #29 |
Senior Yorkie Talker | Not sure if this comment was for me if yes, I wasn't and wouldn't, was only saying that for breeders that do its and extra worry regarding infection
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02-25-2013, 01:12 PM | #30 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: uk
Posts: 43
| no the comment was meant for the original poster ,leahndmp or anyone else who would even think about it .I had Dobies in the past both docked and i have a Jack Russel which has a docked tail thankfully my yorkie has a beatufully long tail . If they were meant to have tails that way they would have been born with them . i just think it is wrong and that just my opinion. |
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