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Old 12-17-2012, 01:57 PM   #1
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Default Helping a friend buy a Havanese pup/dog

What an exciting time this is. About six weeks ago my friend who knows I breed, asked me to help her find a good reputable Havanese breeder.

She was open to rescues, and filled in the form, but there is no Havanese to be had in a rescue here.

So I really do feel for first time buyers, trying to negotiate the mires of finding a good breeder.

The first step I did, was to go to the National Havenese dog clubs in both Canada and USA. I must say I was very impressed with ALL the health testing that they recommend be done for their breed.

I reviewed the standard and at the next dog show, went in search of some breeders and some referrals to good Canadian breeders.

I also contacted a breeder friend of mine in the States who breds Hav's and BRT's I asked him for a referral to a Cdn breeder, along the way in our emails he mentioned that he had a Hav female they held back for show, but they just determined they won't go ahead with her in the show ring - she grew a little too large at 12-13 lbs.

Well we visited a good Cdn breeder a couple of wkends ago; and she had two puppies in the Xpen. I could see Betty's eyes light up, and I knew we were in trouble if either one of those pups were available. I thought to myself oh no.... We will never get through the interview. The breeders husband showed us in, and chatted for a bit while his wife finished up the phone call.

Want to guess the first question out of Betty's mouth???? LOL LOL right are either of these two pups available. Sadly for Betty they weren't....

So I was glad that we could get into the actual interview. The woman was very lovely, answered all our questions, BUT, she would not be having another litter until late summer or early fall. They were on their way to Fla with their dogs for the winter!

Back to searching again..... And Betty is getting tired of going through the websites I've flagged as good. She says well Gail - your USA friend has Caroline - remember her? Is he a good breeder? Gosh - well I said let me look at what he does in terms of health for the Havanese.

So now we are at the Contract for Sale part. I finally get to "see" Caroline's parents - good news both sides CHIC'd - great results from both vertical and Horizontal pedigree! Very good news.

For me in that contract there are a couple of sore points. I explain how I feel clearly to Betty - and she wants to go ahead. I say look, there is no harm in asking for this paragraph to be modified. See what he says.

Betty tells me that her vet told her contracts are all well and good, but truly the health of a dog doesn't become clear until way later on in their life. Huh? Hip and elbow dysplasia evidence early, as does LP and Liver Shunt(usually).

So I said to Betty - with all due respect to your vet - the above are clear fairly early on in a dogs life. PRA can show up after 5yrs old - and David clearly tests at 5+yrs old and earlier for this condition. Cancer can happen at any age.

Betty will "do as I ask" - although she told me left to her own devices she would just sign the contract based on what her vet said.......

I said Betty - my role here is not to tell you what to do, but to help you go into this purchase with your "eyes wide open".

The clause of most concern to me was the one that said if the dog suffered from any of the following genetic conditions, it could be returned to them, and another companion dog offered as a replacement. They also delineated the severity of certain conditions - which I felt were too much biased to the seller and not the purchaser.

This is the clause that is up " I hope for change".

Betty has told me, that despite what "I told her" that I do, and many other breeders do, that she would never give up her dog for any medical condition - so the clause doesn't concern her.

And btw, I will be the one picking up the dog at the Chicago show in Feb. She will be flying home with me.

I have told Betty that before I leave with the dog, she will be gone over by several experts. There is an opportunity if she so wishes to have the dog examined by a vet at the show. This would be prior to my leaving the States. She is mulling over that one now

So it has been a bit of a rollercoaster for me and more so for Betty. Betty has already bonded with this young lass through all the pics and videos of her.

Oh yes another hurdle overcome; I told Betty that she should ask the breeder to spay the female prior to her coming home. This means the breeder takes the surgical risk in hand. I also said to confirm with the breeder that a full pre op blood screen should be done.

So what is the moral of this story? LOL I'm not too sure. It is a very exciting time for sure for all.

I just hope little Caroline passes all her screening tests - I don't want to navigate through that minefield if she doesn't! We are having testing done for heart, patella, hearing, eyes. To come will be HD and ED.

Wish us luck - well wish Betty good luck!
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:32 PM   #2
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What a great friend you are! Good luck, Betty And, good luck little Caroline..hope you pass your tests
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #3
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Awww...how nice of you. I've never acquired a pet from a breeder...don't know if I could make it through the process myself. lol

The Havanese are sure cute...great breed choice for Florida. I think they are a breed I'd consider, especially if I wasn't so in love with Yorkies. lol I only know of one breeder here for reasons unrelated to the breed, but sure enjoyed looking at photos of the dogs.

How wonderful a friend you are! I hope Betty finds her dream dog!
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:03 PM   #4
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you are a great friend for going to in depth with helping her. i am sure she will find a great pup thanks to you.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:11 PM   #5
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The Havanese are a wonderful breed that I have recommended time and again to friends. The breed club is doing extensive health testing, and they are such happy little dogs with such great temperaments.

I'm sure your friend Betty, even though she is a client of yours, has discovered what a truly amazing friend you are. I learned that, too, long ago the lengths that you will go to help your friends. I love you so dearly, and I feel so blessed to call you my dear and close friend. ShE picked a most precious gem to go along witH her, a very powerful resource with vast knowledge and a most ethical person who sets high standards for herself and demands the same for the breeders she chooses to work with. Because of you and Jackie, we have our special little Katie, and I know in my heart that she is such a treasure--a rare and perfect find. I'm so glad that you'll have the joy of transporting Betty's puppy for her. You change so many lives due to your huge, loving heart.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:26 PM   #6
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You are truly a wonderful friend. That is a lot of research. I hope she takes your advice. I hope everything works out for her. I wish I had a friend that would have helped me in my search for a Biewer.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #7
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Default Update - Not so good news

This am just got forwarded an email from Betty, which we discussed later on this am.

The substance of the email, is that the lil Hav she has fallen in love with has "cherry eye". In one eye.

The problem is that this condition was not just "discovered" over the past few days, but is a repeat of what happened several months ago.

My friend feels (and I concur) why was this only disclosed at the 11th hour?

How could the breeder have thought that this condition "albeit" seemed to have resolved itself was not something to mention prior to even getting to the contract point? There was a reason given by the breeder. When they noticed the condition a couple of days ago, they pulled her health records and realized this was the second occurence. They have already taken her to the vet, and will have surgery done - they did elaborate succinctly yet clearly in their email about the options and why they have chosen surgery.


Betty is so very upset, as am I! My dear friend wanted to "pay me" for my fare to Chicago as she felt as if I was going for her. I said no way. It was my choice to go see the show. And I am still going. I need to review some of the upcoming BRT's - And I will be speaking in person to that Hav breeder! I have saved all the emails sent with their original time stamps.

Also Betty was un-successful in getting the clause I talked about earlier changed. At that point in time, it didn't deter her.

Betty at this time has indicated she now does not want to deal with this breeder and will decline signing the contract and her interest in this dog. And I am grateful she did not go ahead and sign the contract as she was going to do on Monday this week!!

At issue for me is "when" that disclosure should have taken place. Specifically the previous cherry eye that was manually manipulated back into place a couple of months ago? The breeders explanation is that they had "forgotten about the first instance" and it was only when the cherry returned a couple of days ago, and they pulled her health records that they noted the previous instance.
Now maybe technically they have fully disclosed prior "contract signature" but they have left a bad taste in Betty's mouth as well as mine.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy View Post
When they noticed the condition a couple of days ago, they pulled her health records and realized this was the second occurence. They have already taken her to the vet, and will have surgery done - they did elaborate succinctly yet clearly in their email about the options and why they have chosen surgery.
I'm so sorry this whole situation took a nose-dive. How stressful for you & Betty both.

What you wrote concerns me & immediately has me thinking, how could this happen? How many dogs would a breeder have to have in her care, that she doesn't know the prior medical problems of each. Am I wrong in assuming it would have to be a very high number?
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:55 AM   #9
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Default A fair question

To the best of my knowledge this breeder only breeds two breeds.

I being, somewhat anal and also older, keep very detailed records, and would never think to get to the serious point of offering for sale a dog I was not up to the minute on in terms of their health.

Now this is an older dog ~1+ yrs old, supposedly held back for show, but "grew" a bit to0 big and so they were looking to place her in a home.

The point is not how many dogs they have (well at least for me) but why were they so un-professional in not reviewing the records a whole lot earlier when offering up this dog for placement?

So an educated and professional sort could show an in depth knowledge of each litter but have only one litter a year or 20 litters a year.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:30 PM   #10
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