Has to be said.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

I had someone looking for a puppy that flat out told me they didn't see why they had to have the pup fixed if they were buying it. It would be theirs to breed or not. I told them they weren't getting a pup from me and they stated they would just get one from someone else and breed it if they wanted to.

Maybe the person was just young &/or uneducated about why breeders sell on spay/neuter contracts.

I'll admit that years ago, I would have been one that got my feathers ruffled if you tried to tell me what I could or couldn't do with my dog! And even though I've never bred any animal, nor would I ever want to, and personally think a spayed-female is the perfect dog, it would get my back up for someone to tell me what I could or couldn't do with something I'd bought & paid for & was now mine! But that attitude stemmed from not knowing why. Not knowing about genetics, & health tests, and the time & effort that breeders have put into their lines & the name behind that line...and not wanting all they have worked for eradicated by future wreckless breeding by someone that just doesn't know better.

Hopefully this potential pup owner you talked to is just ignorant & becomes better informed before he/she actually gets a puppy.

[gemy]

In many countries in Europe there is no such thing as a breeder being able to sell on a spay neuter contract.

We live in a multi cultural society with many immigrants, who might be used to a different way of doing things. In fact they probably are; and one of those areas might be dog breeding/buying, etc.

Our dogs are property under the law here in USA and Canada. As such many folks say/believe once you sell to me, it is my property to do with as I wish - given I stay with in local governance laws. It is my right to do with my property as I wish - bounded by in force laws.

In one way of looking at it... if you sell your home, you can not stipulate the person can't add onto the home, or change the paint, or knock out walls; etc.

And yes I know to the depths of my soul dogs are not property in the way other things are; but under law they are.

So in one fashion I can get where that potential buyer might be coming from. For me it is simple, I don't mostly get upset anymore, I just say well look these are my pups right now, and I get to determine who they will be placed with! My pups, my Rules.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by R_Z

Hmmm. I try to stay neutral on these rants, because I like to think anyone is welcome to YorkieTalk no matter what the situation. I would want a new member, regardless of the reason, to feel comfortable coming aboard. I do agree that with regards to breeding small dogs, a professional should be considered. There is so much that could go wrong for the mom and the pups and therefore, it is too much of a risk for an inexperienced person.

I totally agree with the statement: What's done is done. Chastising someone who comes here for help regardless of the situation is tantamount to beating your child because they chewed your chair. Who does that benefit? It certainly doesn't repair the chair and your poor Yorkie didn't know better. But proper and positive training can lead to future results.

Normally I just move on to the next thread when members jump a poor unsuspecting soul because they did something they considered wrong. Whether it is wrong or not, we are not judge and jury. Well, I certainly thought I came here to meet other Yorkie owners and offer any help that I could. Am I wrong?

Ok, now I am off my soapbox.

Why does your soapbox look so much like mine?

[navillusc]

This is a really good subject, and lots of good information and opinions. I am not certain there is a way to 'save the world' in any form. Perhaps asking for help perhaps shows they care in some form...even if they realize too late they should have been more prepared first. Perhaps helping them shows we care...for lost of reasons including the huge love for Yorkies that lives in the hearts of the wonderful members.

I am not a breeder and cannot provide assistance that may be needed in such situations. All of my fur babies have have needed a good home because their old one was insufficient for some reason. My purebred Yorkies may not fit the Standard, but they are loved and will not be bred. I do not know their breeders or their heritage. But, if they were helped in any way by YT members, thank you! Thank you, all!

[chestermama]

I agree with this post

[maggiesmom_2007]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Maybe the person was just young &/or uneducated about why breeders sell on spay/neuter contracts.

I'll admit that years ago, I would have been one that got my feathers ruffled if you tried to tell me what I could or couldn't do with my dog! And even though I've never bred any animal, nor would I ever want to, and personally think a spayed-female is the perfect dog, it would get my back up for someone to tell me what I could or couldn't do with something I'd bought & paid for & was now mine! But that attitude stemmed from not knowing why. Not knowing about genetics, & health tests, and the time & effort that breeders have put into their lines & the name behind that line...and not wanting all they have worked for eradicated by future wreckless breeding by someone that just doesn't know better.

Hopefully this potential pup owner you talked to is just ignorant & becomes better informed before he/she actually gets a puppy.

Unfortunately this was not a younger person. It has come up in conversations with people I have talked to in random situations. To some people that is the mindset they have. When they purchase something it is theirs to do with as they wish and the seller cannot tell them what to do. I simply do not sell to people with that mindset.

[ItsComplicated]

I wish that only responsible breeders could breed, I saw an add in craigslist tonight for a 14oz puppy only 8 weeks old ready to go for xmas, both parents 3lbs. I want to scream. These aren't 80lb labs for crying out loud they are tiny dogs with feelings you can't just knock them up for a few bucks. I hate it I can't stand it.

[Verbena]

Originally Posted by ItsComplicated

I wish that only responsible breeders could breed, I saw an add in craigslist tonight for a 14oz puppy only 8 weeks old ready to go for xmas, both parents 3lbs. I want to scream. These aren't 80lb labs for crying out loud they are tiny dogs with feelings you can't just knock them up for a few bucks. I hate it I can't stand it.

Wow . . . . I just can not find the words to say how disappointed and mad and there is so many feelings. . . . I got it. . . . It makes me sick!!

[gontygirl]

Originally Posted by gemy

In many countries in Europe there is no such thing as a breeder being able to sell on a spay neuter contract.

We live in a multi cultural society with many immigrants, who might be used to a different way of doing things. In fact they probably are; and one of those areas might be dog breeding/buying, etc.

Our dogs are property under the law here in USA and Canada. As such many folks say/believe once you sell to me, it is my property to do with as I wish - given I stay with in local governance laws. It is my right to do with my property as I wish - bounded by in force laws.

In one way of looking at it... if you sell your home, you can not stipulate the person can't add onto the home, or change the paint, or knock out walls; etc.

And yes I know to the depths of my soul dogs are not property in the way other things are; but under law they are.

So in one fashion I can get where that potential buyer might be coming from. For me it is simple, I don't mostly get upset anymore, I just say well look these are my pups right now, and I get to determine who they will be placed with! My pups, my Rules.

True, true and TRUE...

[gontygirl]

Venting is healthy... You have my vote on your opinion, for sure!

[idreamofyorkies]

Great post, and lots of great opinions and info! I am always full of questions. Here is one.. "accidental breedings" is this real? I have witnessed many breedings and all the ones I witnessed there was help with the dogs skin mom there. I am not saying it doesn't happen, I guess I am just curious how easy is it for something like this to happen?

[idreamofyorkies]

Originally Posted by Verbena

Wow . . . . I just can not find the words to say how disappointed and mad and there is so many feelings. . . . I got it. . . . It makes me sick!!

Agree that is absolutely horrific. Can something not be done about people who are doing this?

[carmen in nj]

yes, accidental breedings happens, it happen to ME, last year my Chanel was in heat, i had schedule a very diserve vacation to Hawaii with my dear husband, well my girl was in what I thought was over her season so as is my ritual of doing things i gave her a good bath and let her out with the rest of the pack, while I was giving another dog a bath I heard a rumble in the hallway and when I came out Harry boy and Chanel were in a tie, now counting that in the years I bred this two, Harry boy always needed a cushion and mommy to get to tie with the girls, he is a bit smaller and shorter than the girls, so there out the door went my plans, my vacation and nothing to do but wait and see and as luck had it , she had 6 beautiful babies her largest litter to date, so accidents do happen , now having an intact couple is calling for an accident, I am a breeder so I know I have this possibilities right on my head, if you are not an experience breeder is BEST to get your babies spay and neutered early.. that is the only way to prevent an accident..
hugs,

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by idreamofyorkies

I am always full of questions. Here is one.. "accidental breedings" is this real?

Only if you don't spay/neuter your pet! And not doing so doesn't seem like an accident to me, but rather a deliberate choice.

I do understand there are unforseen things that may happen in someone's life during the time period for fixing a dog...serious health problem with self or immediate family member, or death of a family member. But barring something as severe as an incident(s) such as those, I just don't see how people can justify not fixing their animals & wrecklessly bringing more animals into the world.

[maggiesmom_2007]

Karan is right, If your not a breeder that is breeding for the betterment of the breed then it is your responsibility to make sure your dogs are spayed or neutered.