Vets, Puppy Mills and Pet Stores

[Lovetodream88]

I can't speak for all vets but mine very much knows about the terrible things of puppy mills and the massive health problems of puppy mill dogs. I remember when I found out about Callie being from a puppy mill and told her about it she said well her health isn't to bad compared to some puppy mill dogs and she said how terrible they where. Now we don't have petstores around my area that sell pups so that one thing in our area we don't have to worry about but we do have the Amish that go to the farmers market and sell there sickly pups and they have been known to lie on puppy vaccine papers and there was a massive parvo outbreak!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by lovespandp

It all ties in together doesn't it? For someone like yourself, I would think you would be against someone breeding mixed dogs.. and of course buying one- I'm going to assume you paid decent money for her... when we have so many dogs in the shelter to adpot- it just really doesn't make sense to me- I'm trying to understand it, that's all.

I think puppy mills and breeders who breed mixes are a lot different. I think its wrong to breed mixes but there are really good people who do everything thing else like a reputable breeder except breeding mixes and that sets them very far apart from puppy mills who don't care anything about there dogs.

[gemy]

The vet I would want to deal with and to continue to deal with, should keep themselves aware of ALL current issues with dogs and their welfare. And off the bat, give the huge and continuing press over the years,puppy mills and pet stores, and the link between them as a very minimum.

Unless you purchase a dog from a show breeder as a show dog, and have a breeding contract, no dogs should be bred out of pet stores or puppy mills.

It would be elucidating to know overall in North America, "why" ppl surrender dogs to the shelters.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by gemy

The vet I would want to deal with and to continue to deal with, should keep themselves aware of ALL current issues with dogs and their welfare. And off the bat, give the huge and continuing press over the years,puppy mills and pet stores, and the link between them as a very minimum.

Unless you purchase a dog from a show breeder as a show dog, and have a breeding contract, no dogs should be bred out of pet stores or puppy mills.

It would be elucidating to know overall in North America, "why" ppl surrender dogs to the shelters.

My Tink was surrendered twice. She had to have her anal glands expressed twice a week, also they would just start dripping intermittantly.
She also had high liver enzymes on her last bloodwork with the previous owner. The only reason I know is because we used the same vet and they recognized her when I took her in to be checked. Tink also came with some serious behavior problems, one of which was biting. She had been inappropriately placed in a household with 6 children, all under the age of 12 years old.

Peek A Boo was a runaway, inappropriate urinator, and had two bouts of HGE and a bout of pancreatitis with his previous owner. I was able to decipher the previous owner's phone number off the paperwork and I called her. She said they could not afford to spend any more money on his medical needs.

I spoke with a local rescue here and she said urinating in the house was the #1 reason, not being able to afford medical care was #2. I would imagine behavior problems being high up on that list too.

[MikaTallulah]

Originally Posted by DBlain

Just curious do you think a good vet or a reputable vet knows about the connection of pet stores with puppy mills. Do you think they know about the horrors of puppy mills. In your opinion would a good vet would encourage the breeding of a yorkie pair bought at a pet store?

NO a good vet would not encourage the breeding of puppy store pups. They should educate their clients on how pet store puppy = Puppy mill. As well as spaying and neutering these pups to prevent the continuation. BYB of pet stores pups is in no way an acceptable practice.

[Rescuemomma]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think puppy mills and breeders who breed mixes are a lot different. I think its wrong to breed mixes but there are really good people who do everything thing else like a reputable breeder except breeding mixes and that sets them very far apart from puppy mills who don't care anything about there dogs.

Really? I have yet to meet ONE person who breeds mixes that does ANY health or genetic screening on the parents prior to breeding, let alone researching health problems in the pedigrees or anything else. Maybe some them do, I don't know, but why spend all that money on a MUTT when so many are dying in shelters? They may home raise their puppies, but from what I've seen of people breeding mix breed puppies, that and maybe breeding less frequently is ALL that sets them apart from mills. I'm sorry, but unless you're breeding with a purpose in mind (and no, I don't think making money is a suitable purpose!), with careful health and genetic testing of the parents, and research on the pedigrees, etc you can be compaired to a responsible breeder in any way, shape, or form!

[Rescuemomma]

Originally Posted by kjc

My Tink was surrendered twice. She had to have her anal glands expressed twice a week, also they would just start dripping intermittantly.
She also had high liver enzymes on her last bloodwork with the previous owner. The only reason I know is because we used the same vet and they recognized her when I took her in to be checked. Tink also came with some serious behavior problems, one of which was biting. She had been inappropriately placed in a household with 6 children, all under the age of 12 years old.

Peek A Boo was a runaway, inappropriate urinator, and had two bouts of HGE and a bout of pancreatitis with his previous owner. I was able to decipher the previous owner's phone number off the paperwork and I called her. She said they could not afford to spend any more money on his medical needs.

I spoke with a local rescue here and she said urinating in the house was the #1 reason, not being able to afford medical care was #2. I would imagine behavior problems being high up on that list too.

I see these reasons alot. I'd say in all my years of rescue, #1 reason I see dogs surrendered is house soiling (and almost without exception, I've been able to quickly train these dogs with just a little consistency and positive reinfocement!), #2 would be other behavioral problems they couldn't or wouldn't spend the time/money to resolve, and #3 would be the inability to afford proper medical care - And even though that's not as common as the other to as to why they're surrendered, most of them over 4-5 years old do have medical problems, especially infections of the mouth, that have to be addressed before I can adopt them back out to someone.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Rescuemomma

Really? I have yet to meet ONE person who breeds mixes that does ANY health or genetic screening on the parents prior to breeding, let alone researching health problems in the pedigrees or anything else. Maybe some them do, I don't know, but why spend all that money on a MUTT when so many are dying in shelters? They may home raise their puppies, but from what I've seen of people breeding mix breed puppies, that and maybe breeding less frequently is ALL that sets them apart from mills. I'm sorry, but unless you're breeding with a purpose in mind (and no, I don't think making money is a suitable purpose!), with careful health and genetic testing of the parents, and research on the pedigrees, etc you can be compaired to a responsible breeder in any way, shape, or form!

I understand where you are coming from but I was trying to make a member I felt was attacked feel better. Also remember just because you haven't meet one doesn't mean they aren't out there. I am not a fan of breeding mixes either.

[chachi]

I bought my two from a byb. I think no matter what your buying experience is in the past you can learn from it and become an advocate for better breeding practices and against puppymills. I believe any good vet should know about puppymills and advice people not to buy from them

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by Rescuemomma

Really? I have yet to meet ONE person who breeds mixes that does ANY health or genetic screening on the parents prior to breeding, let alone researching health problems in the pedigrees or anything else. Maybe some them do, I don't know, but why spend all that money on a MUTT when so many are dying in shelters? They may home raise their puppies, but from what I've seen of people breeding mix breed puppies, that and maybe breeding less frequently is ALL that sets them apart from mills. I'm sorry, but unless you're breeding with a purpose in mind (and no, I don't think making money is a suitable purpose!), with careful health and genetic testing of the parents, and research on the pedigrees, etc you can be compaired to a responsible breeder in any way, shape, or form!

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think puppy mills and breeders who breed mixes are a lot different. I think its wrong to breed mixes but there are really good people who do everything thing else like a reputable breeder except breeding mixes and that sets them very far apart from puppy mills who don't care anything about there dogs.

You think so huh, Granted puppy mills are far worse than someone breeding a yorkie and pom, but let’s think how full our shelters are for a minute… Pretty full… Yes? I don’t know about your shelters, but mine are not full of pure breeds.. They are full of mixes.. So if all those people that “wanted” to breed two different breeds together- if they just stopped and thought about it for a second and made an apt to get those pets spayed and neutered- Maybe we wouldn’t have so many unwanted dogs in the shelters. Buying mixed breeds is just filling up those shelters, just like supporting Pet stores is supporting Puppy mills…. Puppy Mills are horrible, but I think if you are against Puppy Mills you should be against people breeding two different breeds and selling them for a profit.. In reality there are soooo many un wanted “mixed” dogs getting put to sleep because of it. In my mind those two go hand and hand.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by lovespandp

You think so huh, Granted puppy mills are far worse than someone breeding a yorkie and pom, but let’s think how full our shelters are for a minute… Pretty full… Yes? I don’t know about your shelters, but mine are not full of pure breeds.. They are full of mixes.. So if all those people that “wanted” to breed two different breeds together- if they just stopped and thought about it for a second and made an apt to get those pets spayed and neutered- Maybe we wouldn’t have so many unwanted dogs in the shelters. Buying mixed breeds is just filling up those shelters, just like supporting Pet stores is supporting Puppy mills…. Puppy Mills are horrible, but I think if you are against Puppy Mills you should be against people breeding two different breeds and selling them for a profit.. In reality there are soooo many un wanted “mixed” dogs getting put to sleep because of it. In my mind those two go hand and hand.

I get your point and your right but I dont think someone who buys a mix should hang there head because of it. They should learn from it and they should care that there are mixes in shelters being euthanizes but I dont think just because they bought from a mixed breeder, a teacup breeder or a puppymill, or byb that person cant go on and learn from it and be an advocate of better breeding or not buying from puppymills. The real problem is the bad breeders and puppymills that are in operation pumping out dogs

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think puppy mills and breeders who breed mixes are a lot different. I think its wrong to breed mixes but there are really good people who do everything thing else like a reputable breeder except breeding mixes and that sets them very far apart from puppy mills who don't care anything about there dogs.

Oh and I wouldn't call those people "breeders" .

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by chachi

I get your point and your right but I dont think someone who buys a mix should hang there head because of it. They should learn from it and they should care that there are mixes in shelters being euthanizes but I dont think just because they bought from a mixed breeder, a teacup breeder or a puppymill, or byb that person cant go on and learn from it and be an advocate of better breeding or not buying from puppymills. The real problem is the bad breeders and puppymills that are in operation pumping out dogs

Absolutely. All doggies and owners are welcome here. No one here, ever, should be put down for their dog - no matter where it came from or what it is. That's not to say people aren't free to educate about matters arising from pet stores, mixed breeds and whatnot - but not via pinpointing any certain member or their dog bc that's plain hurtful.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by lovespandp

Oh and I wouldn't call those people "breeders" .

Imo, any person who breeds two dogs is, by definition, a breeder and need to take responsibility for being one, whether they like the label or not. Whether or not they're ethical, byb, miller or whatever...well, that's a whole other set of definitions.