Debarking a dog? - Page 5 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Rescuemomma · 04-19-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

We should take a poll, which breed's dog forum has the rudest posters?

Would love to see that! ROFL. Afghan people can get ugly but generally they're not to bad, Poodle people are just plain funny but generally pretty nice - but wow, watch out for IG people! LMAO

concretegurl · 04-19-2012, 01:15 PM

LoL...I'ma get kicked out the other forums for my comments here...always thought it would be the other way around.

I'm telling you those schnauzer handlers can handle anyone & anything.
I actually believed one lady when she said she'd come through my screen.
ironic to me German schnauzer breeders totally chillaxed!
Chi ppl freak me out no idea where they're coming from.

concretegurl · 04-19-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, it's wonderful that we can debate and actually learn things from each other! Great post and I totally agree with you that some breeds, I think around 5 or 6 are in serious trouble because of the written standard and changing it so frivolously. This is where the YTCA must hold strong, I hope they don't ever over shorten the nose or change in other ways, until we know what type of health impact it will have.

Missed this

gracielove · 04-19-2012, 02:57 PM

I know that there are some show/breeders of Yorkies here on YT but maybe not as many as on some other breed forums. I found over the years that some of the serious breeders that have been in the ring for a long time tend to get very hardened. The dogs are no longer pets but their business and that can result in some decisions being made that are more for the business than for the dog, sadly. The bigger the name and operation the more hardened it gets. It's a business not something done just for the breed and the love of it.

I bred my Himalayans on a small scale and kept only one stud. You have to know the right people in the right place to breed to the stud of someone else. I saw some catteries down in the basement of houses that resembled a dungeon. I couldn't do that to a cat for money or fame. There are things that you have to do to be a successful breeder of cats or dogs and win in the ring that are not easy. it's always the animals that pay the price. I guess that is why some of the successful people are also able to separate the business part of it from just loving the breed.

Obviously, with so many great breeds being run into the ground by the fashionable trends there are many ethical issues that need to be addressed. Since showing dogs can be a very fiercely competitive sport that attracts some very strong willed and competitive people I can't see things changing much in the near future.

Nancy1999 · 04-19-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracielove

I know that there are some show/breeders of Yorkies here on YT but maybe not as many as on some other breed forums. I found over the years that some of the serious breeders that have been in the ring for a long time tend to get very hardened. The dogs are no longer pets but their business and that can result in some decisions being made that are more for the business than for the dog, sadly. The bigger the name and operation the more hardened it gets. It's a business not something done just for the breed and the love of it.

I bred my Himalayans on a small scale and kept only one stud. You have to know the right people in the right place to breed to the stud of someone else. I saw some catteries down in the basement of houses that resembled a dungeon. I couldn't do that to a cat for money or fame. There are things that you have to do to be a successful breeder of cats or dogs and win in the ring that are not easy. it's always the animals that pay the price. I guess that is why some of the successful people are also able to separate the business part of it from just loving the breed.

Obviously, with so many great breeds being run into the ground by the fashionable trends there are many ethical issues that need to be addressed. Since showing dogs can be a very fiercely competitive sport that attracts some very strong willed and competitive people I can't see things changing much in the near future.

Seriously, the breeders I've spoken with feel very strongly about their dogs never being a source of income that they need to rely on. Breeding is a very expensive "hobby" and it should be seen that way, few hobbies allow us to make money off of them, if you’re lucky you might break even. I know that the experienced good breeders are also looking for people to mentor, and they tell me they have to be sure that the person's heart is in the right place, and they are often disappointed for this should never be seen as a money maker. I agree with you that for some it has become a business, but the other good breeders are aware when this happens. They start selling their dogs to anybody and they start studding their dogs to anybody. We have to be careful when we support a breeder that we are really supporting the best breeder we can find.

concretegurl · 04-19-2012, 03:26 PM

I've heard of two reputable AKC show breeders later convicted on felony animal cruelty charges for running pup mills to support their show expenses-there will always a few bad apples in every bunch.

I got one of my dogs from a large kennel that many here would not support because
1) they breed multiple breeds
2) they fly pups out
3) they sell pets to those who will buy them to support their show costs and maintain the expense of retaining many show dogs.
3) they now breed and sell designer dogs due to market demand
4)they will sell on full registrations

Do I agree with how they do every aspect of it absolutely not.
I do understand how their personal need to not be hypocritical and their religion supports their choices in business practices.

Do I put them in the same category as a pup mill no-they are clean, well cared for, fully staffed, and they beleive in health first temperment second and conformity third, for their pet dogs they sell.

Anyways I agree some people do become hardened by the show ring in the aspect their focus becomes betterment of the breed solely and not on the individual dog it's just a different way of thinking that can change some people-it's basic psychology, obviously it by no means affects everyone involved, I'd bite my tongue before i said it affected the majority without some serious first hand research.

gracielove · 04-19-2012, 03:54 PM

Of course none of know all breeders so no one should make sweeping statements about them. There is always good and bad and those in between. I could have continued to do quite well with my cats if I had been willing to breed for the no nose look but I was not willing to do that to my beautiful cats. "No nose" was winning at the time and while the smaller nose I could tolerate "no nose" was over the line for me.

There are just a lot things to consider once you start looking into the show/breeder aspect of things. From what I have seen of those on YT they seem to be very dedicated and loving to their Yorkies. I know there are those who do a good job of breeding but those who do not seem to over shadow the good that is being done sometimes. I guess overall I have to question the judges that allow the extreme look to continue to beat out the more traditional look of certain breeds.

Nancy1999 · 04-19-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gracielove

Of course none of know all breeders so no one should make sweeping statements about them. There is always good and bad and those in between. I could have continued to do quite well with my cats if I had been willing to breed for the no nose look but I was not willing to do that to my beautiful cats. "No nose" was winning at the time and while the smaller nose I could tolerate "no nose" was over the line for me.

There are just a lot things to consider once you start looking into the show/breeder aspect of things. From what I have seen of those on YT they seem to be very dedicated and loving to their Yorkies. I know there are those who do a good job of breeding but those who do not seem to over shadow the good that is being done sometimes. I guess overall I have to question the judges that allow the extreme look to continue to beat out the more traditional look of certain breeds.

Yes, a breed club should make it clear to the judge what are the features of standard. A judge can’t pick and choose what he thinks is best. I know many breeders will boycott judges who are ignoring standard. They also should be prepared to stand up to the buying public who go more for "trends" without knowing the health impact. Humans tend to like the way human babies look, and this is not always a healthy look for our animals. We also like tininess or the opposite extreme largeness, and we love variation, having something "different" than other people. All these things are very bad for a breed. I know people here hate the YTCA because they won't include their favorite trends, and I'm thankful the YTCA hasn't bowed to pressure to change the standard. I totally agree with you that the number of bad breeders far exceeds the number of good breeders. I'm sorry you had to quit breeding, but good for you for taking a stand on something you knew was unhealthy. I hope the breed club listens to breeders like you.

gracielove · 04-19-2012, 04:55 PM

You know how political showing can become. There are those who more or less control which way certain breeds are going to go. The CFA has made a hideous mess of several breeds to date. Some people are just sold on always changing things as you said. Getting the extreme look of a Persian or Siamese requires close line breeding and that usually spells disaster for the breed because most people are not skilled at that type of breeding but all want to copy cat the look. What a mess.

I'm glad that the Yorkie is staying with it's traditional standard and hope that it stays that way.

04-19-2012, 01:15 PM	#62
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	LoL...I'ma get kicked out the other forums for my comments here...always thought it would be the other way around. I'm telling you those schnauzer handlers can handle anyone & anything. I actually believed one lady when she said she'd come through my screen. ironic to me German schnauzer breeders totally chillaxed! Chi ppl freak me out no idea where they're coming from. __________________ Shan & 8 kids now! Last edited by concretegurl; 04-19-2012 at 01:19 PM.

04-19-2012, 03:26 PM	#66
concretegurl Between♥Suspensions Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Vaissades Posts: 7,979	I've heard of two reputable AKC show breeders later convicted on felony animal cruelty charges for running pup mills to support their show expenses-there will always a few bad apples in every bunch. I got one of my dogs from a large kennel that many here would not support because 1) they breed multiple breeds 2) they fly pups out 3) they sell pets to those who will buy them to support their show costs and maintain the expense of retaining many show dogs. 3) they now breed and sell designer dogs due to market demand 4)they will sell on full registrations Do I agree with how they do every aspect of it absolutely not. I do understand how their personal need to not be hypocritical and their religion supports their choices in business practices. Do I put them in the same category as a pup mill no-they are clean, well cared for, fully staffed, and they beleive in health first temperment second and conformity third, for their pet dogs they sell. Anyways I agree some people do become hardened by the show ring in the aspect their focus becomes betterment of the breed solely and not on the individual dog it's just a different way of thinking that can change some people-it's basic psychology, obviously it by no means affects everyone involved, I'd bite my tongue before i said it affected the majority without some serious first hand research. __________________ Shan & 8 kids now!

04-19-2012, 02:57 PM	#64
gracielove YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY Posts: 6,582	I know that there are some show/breeders of Yorkies here on YT but maybe not as many as on some other breed forums. I found over the years that some of the serious breeders that have been in the ring for a long time tend to get very hardened. The dogs are no longer pets but their business and that can result in some decisions being made that are more for the business than for the dog, sadly. The bigger the name and operation the more hardened it gets. It's a business not something done just for the breed and the love of it. I bred my Himalayans on a small scale and kept only one stud. You have to know the right people in the right place to breed to the stud of someone else. I saw some catteries down in the basement of houses that resembled a dungeon. I couldn't do that to a cat for money or fame. There are things that you have to do to be a successful breeder of cats or dogs and win in the ring that are not easy. it's always the animals that pay the price. I guess that is why some of the successful people are also able to separate the business part of it from just loving the breed. Obviously, with so many great breeds being run into the ground by the fashionable trends there are many ethical issues that need to be addressed. Since showing dogs can be a very fiercely competitive sport that attracts some very strong willed and competitive people I can't see things changing much in the near future.

04-19-2012, 03:54 PM	#67
gracielove YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY Posts: 6,582	Of course none of know all breeders so no one should make sweeping statements about them. There is always good and bad and those in between. I could have continued to do quite well with my cats if I had been willing to breed for the no nose look but I was not willing to do that to my beautiful cats. "No nose" was winning at the time and while the smaller nose I could tolerate "no nose" was over the line for me. There are just a lot things to consider once you start looking into the show/breeder aspect of things. From what I have seen of those on YT they seem to be very dedicated and loving to their Yorkies. I know there are those who do a good job of breeding but those who do not seem to over shadow the good that is being done sometimes. I guess overall I have to question the judges that allow the extreme look to continue to beat out the more traditional look of certain breeds.

04-19-2012, 04:55 PM	#69
gracielove YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NY Posts: 6,582	You know how political showing can become. There are those who more or less control which way certain breeds are going to go. The CFA has made a hideous mess of several breeds to date. Some people are just sold on always changing things as you said. Getting the extreme look of a Persian or Siamese requires close line breeding and that usually spells disaster for the breed because most people are not skilled at that type of breeding but all want to copy cat the look. What a mess. I'm glad that the Yorkie is staying with it's traditional standard and hope that it stays that way.