Debarking a dog?

[concretegurl]

I'd rather see dogs debarked than taken from owners &/or PTS.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Deadbug

I just rescued one named Daisy a week and a half ago. She's my psycho dog!

I didn't tell the whole story behind her (I'm usually going in 5 directions and didn't have time to sit down at the computer).

Daisy will be 3 in October and is 3.5 - 4 lbs. She was scheduled for euthanasia because she's psychotic and aggressive and that alone puts her on the "not adoptable" list. She was beaten and beaten severely. Her aggressive issues stem from fear, nothing else. So I took her in, dealt with my husband's death stare regarding my decision (I didn't ask - I just did it), and here we are. So I think for the time being, I'm going to have to abstain from another rescue while I get her through her issues. I, personally, think she can be fixed.

We started with getting through the food aggression. She liked to guard her bowl and would literally attack anyone who walked by her while she was eating. So, I put 10 of them down all through the kitchen and told her to guard them all. She ran herself out of energy running from one side of the room to the other trying to guard all of them. It took 3 days before she gave up and realized it's not going to work. At that point I started hand feeding her and making her be nice to get kibble. When she misbehaved, I'd pretend that I ate it instead. It took her an hour to eat her breakfast. Now, I can pet her while she's eating. She's still eating with her food bowl on my lap, but she's not snapping and growling anymore.

There's quite a bit of other stuff to work through. I'm trying to build her confidence. She gets lots of time outs but we've made great progress. I only got bit once in the past 3 days. Every time she bites me, I laugh at her and put her in the ex pen.

I worked as the southern regional director for westie rescue for 5 years and worked closely with some very good dog trainers, so I have experience with this. It's too soon to tell how things will turn out but I refuse to let her be put down because of something some human did to her. She's not a bad dog. She's just misunderstood and needed someone who speaks dog.

GOD BLESS YOU!!!! I love the idea of all the bowls all over the kitchen and her trying to guard every one of them....BRILLIANT!!!!! Good luck with this casuality of some idiot human......I think there is a special place in Heaven for people that take abused, misunderstood animals, and gently, patiently works through their issues....like all those "vicious, killer fighting" pit bulls from M.Vicks dog fighting kennel, and they were rehabilitated and saved from being euthanized....

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I'd rather see dogs debarked than taken from owners &/or PTS.

Yeah, I agree, sometimes it's the best choice, but I hope every training method is tried first.

[lillymae]

With a debark surgery the procedure is to make a very small incision just a slit not a hole in the vocal cord & depending on how far up or down the cord the incision is made will determine the sound, how high or low the voice will be or if it will sound hoarse or not, this is not a guarantee but he was very good at a debark. I have seen 150 lb American Bulldog come out sounding just like a yorkie and as loud as a yorkie, this would be considered a failed surgery. The vet I worked for did the debark surgery often for a particular breeder in our area who bred & showed Shelties. The breeder said that her show dogs HAD to be debarked or they would not be allowed in the building. I know that Shelties have a very loud bark & can only imagine how loud a room with many Shelties could be, but would be deafening for sure. The vet I worked for always had the owner bring the dog back after 2 days for a recheck & he Always would give the dog a treat to see how it was eating & they Always gobbled the treat rite up. He said that if the dog was in pain after 2 days then he had not done his job rite & he also gave a small amt of water as soon as the dog opened their eyes after the debark surgery & after about 2 hrs he gave them some canned food & they always gobbled it up like they had never had surgery.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yeah, I agree, sometimes it's the best choice, but I hope every training method is tried first.

[Rescuemomma]

I agree TRAINING is the answer, and this is coming from someone that grew up with Collies and Shelties - Sadly, 2 of the most common breeds to be debarked I've known many debarked dogs - Alot make a gasping noise. Sadly, my Benjamin has been debarked. Didn't realize it until this morning, I heard what I thought was him coughing until I realized he was trying to bark at the cat teasing him, made me cry to hear that horrible noise - I'd rather deal with the barking!

[Rescuemomma]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I'd rather see dogs debarked than taken from owners &/or PTS.

True, but if owners would take the time to properly train their dog, or make other arrangements such as daycare if they have bad separation anxiety while they work through it, they'd be no reason to. In many other countries it's illegal. US is far behind other countries in their anti-cruelty laws!

[Rescuemomma]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

GOD BLESS YOU!!!! I love the idea of all the bowls all over the kitchen and her trying to guard every one of them....BRILLIANT!!!!! Good luck with this casuality of some idiot human......I think there is a special place in Heaven for people that take abused, misunderstood animals, and gently, patiently works through their issues....like all those "vicious, killer fighting" pit bulls from M.Vicks dog fighting kennel, and they were rehabilitated and saved from being euthanized....

What a wonderful thing for you to do - My Benji was also a death row dog, but because he had no teeth - So sad! Thankfully unlike most of my shelter dogs, I've had zero behavioral problems with him! Ok, I guess he does mark occasionally - But that's just a matter of teaching him where I want him to potty! It's so sad how many Yorkies and other breeds end up in the shelters because the owners won't spend the time to properly train and socialize them!

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Rescuemomma

True, but if owners would take the time to properly train their dog, or make other arrangements such as daycare if they have bad separation anxiety while they work through it, they'd be no reason to. In many other countries it's illegal. US is far behind other countries in their anti-cruelty laws!

My rescue is a screamer.

My neighbor asked if I'd consider debarking.

I medicate him for his separation anxiety have worked with several trainer and behaviorist.

Some dog will be barkers.

Derik's ex-wife's dog came to me a trained alerter she would spin and bark incessantly, on top of that she was poorly trained other than to alert & wouldn't listen to me.

I won't lie, I considered debarking her after the first trainer refused to work with her.

I persevered though, she left me finally house broken, much better behaved and stopping barking on command- after a year: however even in her new home (I only took her in on a temporary foster basis) she is still an alerter-her new home wanted her and her altering ability.

[bondai]

I don't care for the debarking idea, I think it's cruel. Any dag can be trained not to bark if only the owner is willing to take the time to do it, certainly easier on the dog than having a steel rod shoved down his throat.

Milo is still very young but has discovered his barker. Sometimes he uses it when it's inappropriate but he is learning and together we will work it out. Personally I want him to be able to bark, he is a dog after all and his bark is music to my ears.

[Rescuemomma]

Originally Posted by bondai

I don't care for the debarking idea, I think it's cruel. Any dag can be trained not to bark if only the owner is willing to take the time to do it, certainly easier on the dog than having a steel rod shoved down his throat.

Milo is still very young but has discovered his barker. Sometimes he uses it when it's inappropriate but he is learning and together we will work it out. Personally I want him to be able to bark, he is a dog after all and his bark is music to my ears.

Exactly my attitude! Trust me - after almost 2 decades of being owned by Collies and Shelties - I know very well that some dogs just like to bark and vocalize alot! Just like some people never know when to shut their mouth - but do we cut their vocal cords? Sometimes it takes a long time, especially with adult dogs that may have been abused. Citronella collars can often help in the training process. But I have yet to meet a dog that can't be taught if proper methods are used and the dog is getting the exercise and enrichment it needs!

[concretegurl]

Citronella collars are very dangerous-they burn eyes, & nose, they can cause nasal & eye infections.

Vibration collars work well too safe, and effective.

I've found the beep function on them only make barkers go off more.

When I say vibrate I literally mean vibration not static or shock or any 'corrective stimulation' it just vibrates.

[Christinee]

How sad!!

[Rescuemomma]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Citronella collars are very dangerous-they burn eyes, & nose, they can cause nasal & eye infections.

Vibration collars work well too safe, and effective.

I've found the beep function on them only make barkers go off more.

When I say vibrate I literally mean vibration not static or shock or any 'corrective stimulation' it just vibrates.

Never heard that or seen any problems in 10 years as a vet tech caused by proper use of citronella collars. That said I can easily see how some dogs could be sensitive to it! Vibration collars are a better solution if your dog responds well - I like the remote vibration collars, gives you control, and a way to quickly interupt the behavior so you can focus them on something that can be rewarded!

[Ringo1]

I will admit that I did use a Citronella collar on my Westie - I think it was much preferable to debarking.

It didn't take but about one time for him to figure the entire thing out. Now, we just put it on him in the early, early morning or late at night. The collar ran out of citronella about a year ago - but, again, he's no dummy.