food...

[whitcline08]

I took jasper to my vet today to have him checked out. He gave me a puppy pack that they give to all new puppies and its a box with a small bag of science diet small bites puppy and a book on science diet. What I want to know is if science diet is not that healthy for pups why is it #1 recommened by vets? Isn't vets suppose to give dogs stuff that's good for them and if its not good for them why are they selling it?

[LovinOurYorkies]

I've always wondered that too. DH says it's all about kick-backs ($$$) I'd prefer to think that's not really the case, but why else would they continue to endorse these food

[Harrysmum]

Originally Posted by LovinOurYorkies

I've always wondered that too. DH says it's all about kick-backs ($$$) I'd prefer to think that's not really the case, but why else would they continue to endorse these food

I quite agree with your husband! It's the same 'over here' too.

Plus they plug and push PetPlan insurance - which is actually the most expensive one on the comparison websites. It's very wrong.... Sally + Harry x

[gracielove]

Vets do sign up with different companies to get RX diets for their clients. Of course that gives the company an open door to hand out their samples to the office and that is one way of getting customers. People are starting to become more aware of how far the pet food industry has gotten from a natural diet for pets and some vets are far behind in the nutrition field. Vets are supposed to be keeping up with the medical field and they also have to run a business. They depend on the pet food industry to prepare the foods a pet needs. Unfortunately, in many cases the pet food industry has concentrated on how to prepare food that can sit on a shelf for months at a time rather than a food that is as close as possible to what a dog would eat in nature.

Selling pet food is not going to make a huge amount of money for a vet although you can bet there is a good sized mark up on it. But they do have to have their RX diets for patients so they do hook up with at least one pet food supplier.

[candigirl]

My vet's waiting room is lined with Science Diet i mean kibble,canned,treats you name it...Even in the examination room there is a science diet treat jar. However, and this is what i really love about my vet, she doesn't PUSH Science Diet down my throat. I know many vets do and i've met one. He sent me home with a huge free bag of Science Diet Puppy after i already told him i had food at home they insisted "this is better". My new vet fully supports that i feed RAW, she thinks it's great and was even herself educated in that method of feeding which more vets should be doing-instead of focusing on pushing this "food".

[yorkieusa]

Have those of you on FB seen this?

The SCIENCE DIET SCAM!!! By Sabine Contreas | Facebook

[Britster]

I don't really think vets make all that much profit off selling dog food. Some vets offices may make more than others, but in general, I honestly think it's just a lack of them knowing any better. Honestly, if you ask every vet to explain WHY he's recommending a certain brand of food, and if he can even name the first 5 ingredients in it and what are their benefits, they probably won't be able to tell you. That'd be a good experiment, lol... have people take their dogs to different vets offices and when they recommend a food, ask why, and why are those ingredients important, what will they do for my dog, etc, etc? I truly wonder how many vets would be able to get a good answer. I feel if they are going to sell the food, they should be able to back it up and answer specific detailed questions about it. A while back, I saw a vet site with a page on diet. It said not to feed food that was predominantly corn and then went on to recommend Science Diet, lol. To me, that shows a lot of vets are definitely blindly following what they are being told. Understandable, they are vets, they have a lot of other things to worry about... and I don't think nutrition is one of their main concerns. I don't believe that makes them a bad vet. A vet can be great at diagnosis, treatment, etc and not be very knowledgeable about nutrition - I don't think that makes them a BAD vet. Probably a bad example, but it's what I am coming up with in my head... a teacher can be a GREAT teacher but still be bad at math. Just because one subject may be a little rocky, doesn't mean they aren't a great teacher in all other aspects.

While I think company ethic and practices are probably more important than ingredients, I also think ingredients play some part. And even if a company is trustworthy, I can't get myself to feed my dog soy, sawdust, wheat, corn, un-specified animal sources, etc. I just can't believe that it can be better for my dog, and that's not because I've been brainwashed by online forums or anything of the sort. Anyone I've ever talked to knows that dogs need to eat meat, I always thought it was just a common understanding between people and since a child, it's what I've always thought. It makes sense. For healthy dogs anyways.

Truth is: Hills and Purina DO dominate the vet market... it's all about marketing. All the seminars these vets attend are paid and sponsored by them. Whether or not that is the reason they recommend and sell the foods, is up to you to decide.

With that said, certain foods will look great on paper, but I'd never choose to feed them due to quality control issues and recalls, etc. So in those cases, ingredients don't matter to me, because I wouldn't trust the company enough to even feed their food. Check out Merrick for example. Or Google Nutro Consumer Affairs. Heck, google Science Diet Consumer Affairs. Also, check out the FDA website.

Science Diet was also a part of the huge recall in 2007 with their cat food, not dog. But they are not exempt, which I think some think they are. List of recalls for Pet Food Products from SCIENCE DIET I don't really entirely trust ANY Diamond food after the big recall of 2007 either (so that includes TOTW, 4health, Diamond Naturals, etc).

I guess with this loonnggg post I am trying to say that unless we are there, in the factory, watching where this food is being made and where it's coming from, we're never going to officially know. And that's with ANY food. We are putting trust in some of these companies, which can be pretty scary, but we do this every day with our own food as well. Ya know, we could get all crazy, and demand to know where the cows came from, or what the cows were eating, or what kind WATER were they drinking? But, well... that would be crazy and who wants to live like that? So, I think it's just a matter of finding what you BELIEVE is right for your dog, what he/she does best on, which company you choose to support, etc, etc.

I prefer smaller companies with great customer service, who reply to my e-mails and questions, who offer to show their entire factory where food is made (view the video here: http://www.championpetfoods.com/) , ingredients that I agree with, not outsourcing or using another manufacturer to make their products (i.e. has their own factory).

FWIW, every time I've emailed Champion or Fromm, I get very detailed answers back to my questions. And Fromm is fantastic when dealing with customers on Facebook, coupons, etc, etc. I've e-mailed Science Diet three times in the past year, very nicely, respectively written, asking about a certain ingredient and where it came from and why it's used and NEVER gotten a reply.

[Harrysmum]

I completely agree with every word you've written Brit - an excellent post.

And that is also why I home-cook for Harry. I know where the beef/chicken etc has come from (locally sourced, home-reared, organic)....I know exactly what's going into his little (ish! ) dependant, scrummy, healthy body.

Sally + Harry x

[gracielove]

I think most of us know that fresh food is better than something that comes out of a box. People say they feed their dogs commercial dog foods and they do fine on them. Well, you can eat fast food and convenience foods and live a long time but eventually the stress and lack of nutrition you are giving to your body is going to show up in various harmful forms.

At one time I purchased Science Diet for my dog because I read "science" and "diet" and it was more expensive and I put those things together and figured I was doing good by my dog. I thought it was a leading company and it tested it's foods on dogs! After my little guy passed on and I was starting to research pet foods for my Gracie I read the Science Diet Mature ingredient label and got weak in the knees! I felt horrible for feeding that to my little guy for so long!

You cannot mess with mother nature and come out with the same nutrients and enzymes that you started with. Humans cannot duplicate what is produced in nature.

Because our country has turned to a mass production style of producing food we no long have as much access to natural products in human food or pet food. Even our fruits and vegetables are genetically engineered to be one small size that will fit in a plastic bag or shrink wrap plus the are grown to be resistant to bugs. The soil is stripped of it's natural nutrients. I won't even start on how our domestic meats are produced.

Our pets teeth don't have to need to be cleaned every year. They don't have to become obese and diabetic as they get older and neither do we. Many of our pets are getting the same diseases as humans do as they age AND they are diet induced diseases.

I hope that more vets will become interested in pet nutrition. I know they are already busy with other things but it is a vital need for our pets health.

[pinkpatty]

Diamond makes blue buffalo, or that is what I have been told, by my vet in Florida.

[Britster]

Originally Posted by pinkpatty

Diamond makes blue buffalo, or that is what I have been told, by my vet in Florida.

Diamond does not make Blue Buffalo. I think BB is manufactured by American Nutrition or something like that.

The following foods are actual Diamond Brand Foods:
Taste of the Wild
Diamond Naturals
4health
etc.

The following use a Diamond facility to manufacture their food:
Natural Balance
Solid Gold
Timberwolf
Canidae
Chicken Soup for Pet Lovers Soul
etc.

In other words, the chicken going into Natural Balance isn't the same chicken going into Diamond Naturals. But, still worrisome to me.

[navillusc]

I always 'follow the money' as 'they' say to see 'why' things may be being done the way they are being done. When there is profit to be gained with no short term or immediately provable negatives, I tend to question the motives and the 'facts' presented.

A couple years ago when my vet was treating one of my male cats for a urinary blockage, which apparently has a published common cause, he assumed the food the cat was eating was high in a particular ingredient, etc. found in common retail pet food but after seeing what we fed the cat, believed the food was not the cause of the blockage and recommended we not change the food because the ingredients were so clean.

I have never had a cat or dog who would eat Science Diet...not exactly sure why, but after the first several doing that, I just never bought it any more even to see if they would. I read labels, look up, and go by, ingredients...not brand or commercials or vet recommendations...but that's just neurotic me!

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by gracielove

I think most of us know that fresh food is better than something that comes out of a box. People say they feed their dogs commercial dog foods and they do fine on them. Well, you can eat fast food and convenience foods and live a long time but eventually the stress and lack of nutrition you are giving to your body is going to show up in various harmful forms.

At one time I purchased Science Diet for my dog because I read "science" and "diet" and it was more expensive and I put those things together and figured I was doing good by my dog. I thought it was a leading company and it tested it's foods on dogs! After my little guy passed on and I was starting to research pet foods for my Gracie I read the Science Diet Mature ingredient label and got weak in the knees! I felt horrible for feeding that to my little guy for so long!

You cannot mess with mother nature and come out with the same nutrients and enzymes that you started with. Humans cannot duplicate what is produced in nature.

Because our country has turned to a mass production style of producing food we no long have as much access to natural products in human food or pet food. Even our fruits and vegetables are genetically engineered to be one small size that will fit in a plastic bag or shrink wrap plus the are grown to be resistant to bugs. The soil is stripped of it's natural nutrients. I won't even start on how our domestic meats are produced.

Our pets teeth don't have to need to be cleaned every year. They don't have to become obese and diabetic as they get older and neither do we. Many of our pets are getting the same diseases as humans do as they age AND they are diet induced diseases.

I hope that more vets will become interested in pet nutrition. I know they are already busy with other things but it is a vital need for our pets health.

:thum bup: Yep...you're singing my song!!!

[pinkpatty]

Guess my vet is wrong...

[Ellie May]

We just had this discussion recently (somewhere around here).

I'll just say this. There are two sides to every story. Some people believe SD is not healthy and others don't agree. To each their own. If one doesn't like it, one absolutely shouldn't feed it unless they have to. ...because in the end, if something goes wrong with the food you choose (here I'm talking about a serious medical issue because of the ingredients, lack of QC, etc.), that lands on you. If you do what you think is best, then if something were to go wrong you would have less regret.

To decide what food is best for your pup, I would not recommend listening to internet nutritionists or people on forums. Find somebody that is qualified (whatever that looks like for you) in nutrition.

Whether or not they get "kickbacks", don't know any better, etc., I guess that's something for each owner to decide (after looking at both sides). The vets I take my dogs to care more about them than money. They also refer out instead of being totally random with their product selections. That is the standard of care I expect for my pets.