I just don't get it??

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

Breeding for Tiny pups is unethical breeding. I see that there is a claim to not breed for tiny pups, yet *you* continue to breed the bitches that produce tiny pups? The fact that you keep the tinies for their safety does not make it ok, because not all the pups come out tiny does not make it ok. Please spay and/or neuter your "parents." Please stop breeding for Tinies and stop justifying it, please. You are not doing the right thing, IMHO.

Any breeder can end up with a runt in a litter. That can not possibly be misconstrued as "deliberately breeding for tinies." When breeders spend close to $5000.00 or more for a breeding female that has a had a wonderful winning career in the show ring, as well as having a pedigree behind her that is outstanding, it would be unrealistic to expect just because a runt is born in a litter she whelps, she "is no good as a breeding female and should be scrapped"!! Likewise, that certainly does not make the breeder unethical or irrresponsible. She is breeding solid, healthy, true to breed standard dogs, and handles the birth of a runt with integrity and compassion. No justification for ethical practices would be warranted.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Actually, all puppies have a "pedigree"...that is it's "family tree"...are you referring to "registered" and "non registered" Yorkies? There are hundreds of people out there that jump at the chance to buy a tiny, tiny dog. Most of the time, they have absaolutely no idea what they are getting into, or they just dont care, or they have enough money to "fix" any "issues" that may arise. To answer the last question about price.....unscrupulous breeders TRY to get the tiny little puppies when they breed, because it is "understood" those tiny babies are "special" and thery bring a bigger price...like a perfect pink diamond will cost more than a perfect white diamond, all things being equal....for them, simply the law of supply and demand. However, when you have a litter of babies, and one is so very tiny and struggling so hard to live, that baby consumes 90% more of the breeders time and energy, just to get that baby to survive. More vet visits, constant care and handling and tube feedings every 2 hours AROUND THE CLOCK, (I actually carry these tiny little babies in my bra, because they need the warmth, they need the touch, they need to hear breath and heartbeat, they need the stimulation) ....this is actually a valid reason why these babies to sell for more than the "normal" ones...the additional burden, (financial, emotional, and labor intensive tasks), this one baby has on a breeder, who can not just cull the baby, or allow it to die just because it is tiny, is what generates the higher price in those babies. We seldom break even on those little darlings....thank God, these runts are few and far between, at least for me.

You obviously have experience with breeding tinies, you have 3, you have sold them and have rarely broke even, you go from stating Tiny babies to selling runts? 1 tiny, 2 tiny, 3 tiny...too many, these are Tinies...you offer reasons which to me amount to excuses, denial? I don't know, all I know is what you post here. I would question myself, if I kept producing 1, 2, atleast 3 tinies.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Any breeder can end up with a runt in a litter. That can not possibly be misconstrued as "deliberately breeding for tinies." When breeders spend close to $5000.00 or more for a breeding female that has a had a wonderful winning career in the show ring, as well as having a pedigree behind her that is outstanding, it would be unrealistic to expect just because a runt is born in a litter she whelps, she "is no good as a breeding female and should be scrapped"!! Likewise, that certainly does not make the breeder unethical or irrresponsible. She is breeding solid, healthy, true to breed standard dogs, and handles the birth of a runt with integrity and compassion. No justification for ethical practices would be warranted.

Exactly right, A runt but if you keep ending up with tinies they are still runts? $5000 or $5,000,000 if I were producing tinies I would cut my losses...but thats just me...I wasn't directing my response directly at you but since you responded directly at me, I will state my opinion, your breeding for tiny and calling them runts, no price tag or blue ribbon is worth it to me...but it is for you? One runt (tiny), two runt (tiny) three runt (tiny)...where does it begin and where does it end.

We clearly don't see eye to eye on this matter, your a breeder and I am not. I am against unethical breeding and that includes breeding for tinies even if you know that "most" of the litter will not be...

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

ALL ABSOLUTELY TRUE!! AGREE 110%...I have 3 tiny girls that I will keep, because I absolutely will NOT sell these babies except to the PERFECT home...no children, no pets, experienced Yorkie owner, etc. And even if I stumbled on the PERFECT home, I too, am so attached to "my girls", I think I would be like Carlton Heston....".......FROM MY COLD, DEAD, HANDS....."!!!!!! Julia, I have a formula that I tube feed all my tiny babies, and I have not lost one to "fading puppy syndrome" since I started using this formula....if you would like it, PM me and I will send it to you.

Originally Posted by lynzy420

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

You obviously have experience with breeding tinies, you have 3, you have sold them and have rarely broke even, you go from stating Tiny babies to selling runts? 1 tiny, 2 tiny, 3 tiny...too many, these are Tinies...you offer reasons which to me amount to excuses, denial? I don't know, all I know is what you post here. I would question myself, if I kept producing 1, 2, atleast 3 tinies.

IDK, I'm not making much sense of your post, maybe you're not reading the entire thread and jumping to conclusions. But that is just my opinion.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by beachdog

Paris was "supposed" to be a 7 lb Yorkie but he was nearly 13 lbs of Love!!

who says 13 is unlucky?!! Just more to love!

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by kjc

IDK, I'm not making much sense of your post, maybe you're not reading the entire thread and jumping to conclusions. But that is just my opinion.

I took my rose colored glasses off long ago..
I read it carefully.. I concluded she has tinies that she bred...calls Runts... I advocate against this type of breeding...thanks for ur opinion though...

[Wylie's Mom]

I've always held the opinion that good breeders should charge a bit more for the tinies, not bc they might be in demand; but because true tinies/runts require SO much extra TLC from the breeder...and I'm happy to pay a little extra for all the care they've given these little ones. That's not to say I support a breeder who says "Have tinies, teacups! $5000!" -- totally different situation.

I got Marcel from a show breeder, and he was the runt of his litter - he was very small, and I'm sure incredibly vulnerable. My breeder kept him until he was 4mths old, bc that's the earliest she'd allow it...and I really respect this. Marcel is an absolute doll, both in looks and personality .

[chachi]

The problem isnt producing a runt that ends up being a tiny in a litter. That can happen to any breeder. I dont see anything wrong with charging a little more for them either since they do require more care and also more care is needed in selecting an appropriate home. The problem is these breeders breeding a tiny yorkie and producing tiny yorkies that they advertise as teacups and sell for 5 to 10k

[Yorkiemom1]

Out of 10+ years of breeding, I have been fortunate to only have 3 "tiny" girls, weighing between 1-2 oz at birth. They are all from different litters, different parents. They are all over 2 years old, and I will just keep them with me, as I am too attached now. Of course, they are not used as "breeding stock"! I am very happy with the quality of my babies and have absolutely no intent of changing my program, just because I end up with a runt every couple of years, especially when some of these babies that may start off smaller than every one else in the litter, do catch up and mature to breed standard weights. That is what we strive for, the breed standard, even if we have to carry them around in our bras for awhile!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by chachi

The problem isnt producing a runt that ends up being a tiny in a litter. That can happen to any breeder. I dont see anything wrong with charging a little more for them either since they do require more care and also more care is needed in selecting an appropriate home. The problem is these breeders breeding a tiny yorkie and producing tiny yorkies that they advertise as teacups and sell for 5 to 10k

I agree......THAT is what I call deliberately breeding for "tinies", "teacups", even "micro-mini-teacups"!!!! especially when they start peddeling them for absolutely outrageous prices! Those are not breeders that have ended up with a runt in a litter...and as far as I am concerned, all these "tinies" etc, are RUNTS! You really get into ethical issues when you go from selling a runt of the litter, for a little more because of the work and time invested, to selling runts called "Teacups" or "micro-Teacups" for outrageous prices, just because you know someone out there will pay that!

[gemy]

I have to say I agree with Yorkie Mom. All breeders will get some smaller some larger dogs in any litter. That is not reason in my books to never breed that breeding pair again.

There are much more pertinent reasons to not repeat a breeding; like first and foremost health problems, and temperament problems.

If the tinies you do have are never bred, are responsibly placed the breeder has done the right and ethical thing by their tiny.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by chachi

The problem isnt producing a runt that ends up being a tiny in a litter. That can happen to any breeder. I dont see anything wrong with charging a little more for them either since they do require more care and also more care is needed in selecting an appropriate home. The problem is these breeders breeding a tiny yorkie and producing tiny yorkies that they advertise as teacups and sell for 5 to 10k

Exactly !

[AMD]

A pedigree is simply a record of a pup's family history- father, mother, grandfather, grandmother etc.. It cracks me up when people talk about a "pedigreed dog" - you can't have a dog without a pedigree, even if you don't know what the pedigree is. LOL

As far as tinies...
Every breeder will come up with big ones and small ones. It happens.
But there's a big difference from the breeders who are proud of their "accomplishments" of producing tinies. You see it all the time... "Charting only 2-3 lbs at xxx age" "$2000, $5000, etc"... Some even know better than to say "teacup" or "tiny" LOL

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by AMD

A pedigree is simply a record of a pup's family history- father, mother, grandfather, grandmother etc.. It cracks me up when people talk about a "pedigreed dog" - you can't have a dog without a pedigree, even if you don't know what the pedigree is. LOL

As far as tinies...
Every breeder will come up with big ones and small ones. It happens.
But there's a big difference from the breeders who are proud of their "accomplishments" of producing tinies. You see it all the time... "Charting only 2-3 lbs at xxx age" "$2000, $5000, etc"... Some even know better than to say "teacup" or "tiny" LOL

reminds me of,
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck...

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

reminds me of,
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck...

Amen!! God just grant me the wisdom to know the difference between a duck and a goose!