Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 3862767)

RE: contracts, I know they are important, I had a great one with the STORE that brokered my puppy from HUNTE CORP (STEVE'S WONDERFUL WORLD OF PETS), when it all came down to it, I had a profoundly sick pup that I had bonded with that they wanted me to hand over to them for a "new and better pup", that was not going to happen, while I did get the cost (AFTER I STOOD IN THE STORE AND CAUSED A SCENE) up to what I paid for the pup, it was a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the surgery she needed on her eyes. I had to pay first then submit receipts and I honestly felt "dirty" after I received the check.

In the end, the contract was useless for me because my only concern was for My Miss Mini and I no longer wanted contact with them because once I realized the "whole picture" of what they stood for, I just couldn't....

My second pup has heart issues (that we are hoping she outgrows) the owner couldn't be more helpful and/saddened. I do not fault the owner, his breeding pair were checked out, well taken care of and had 1 litter with no defects...this litter had 3 with 2 defective pups. The owner has had both of his pups "fixed". He did try to reimburse me but my husband and I said no, we are grateful for the pup and will take care of her. The owner sent me a check anyway. Soooo...

Like people, there are no guarantees that any pup will be 100% healthy, but if you do the process of elimination and choose a breeder who is responsible and ethical, your chances of getting a healthy pup are much better, and a good experience with the owners is priceless!

All I know is I could never give my pups back, and their love and loyalty to me is reward enough, that there is nothing I wouldn't do for them.

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC (Post 3862778)

I am not sure anymore haha. I thought Deb Siller's has a wonderful contract. Most breeders guarantee what she guarantees but only for a year (she has it for 5 years) so I really have no idea now. I jumped at the opportunity to have one of her pups but not I am hearing that her contract is ok so I don't know :(

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3862783)

I don't know if you'll ever find the 'Perfect' contract.... you can purchase pet insurance to cover what the contract is lacking...maybe... may help IDK. If you are comfortable with it then I don't see what the problem is...

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC (Post 3862790)

Just trying to be sure I am making the right choice for my new pup I suppose :(

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3862773)

I did not suggest that an air tight contract will give you a 100% healthy puppy. But it does help the buyer when they are standing there broken hearted with a sick dog to get the breeder to stand behind the dog. No breeder should take $2,000 or more for a dog who needs 5 times that in care. A good breeder will turn it back into the dog. A contract helps you achieve that. That's really all.

Originally Posted by carmen in nj (Post 3862820)

As a breeder, a contract is as good as the breeder who signs it, NO bredder can guarantee the health of her puppies 100% I do stress the importance of knowing where your breeding pair comes from, and have them test for EVERY illness known to affect the specific breed. also if the breeder there to support you thru out the life of the pup? can you call for advise if need be? in an emergency will breeder take the dog back? can you ask for references of other puppy owners from this particular breeder?
can you visit with mom and dad and see whow they live? To me as a breeder, Reputable is NOT what I sell my puppies for, but that the people who buy a puppy from me are Happy and the pup is in a happy enviroment, I know my dogs are Healthy but if any sickness due to genetics arrive i am right there to find out why, when, and how this happend and help the family in everything I can. Even if that means take my dog back make him better and then return him to his family.. that to me is a REPUTABLE Responsible breeder..
hugs,

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC (Post 3862880)

I will have to ask her specific questions to figure out what exactly is included in her contract.

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3862896)

The contract as it is written is what is included. When a buyer and a seller sign a contract, they are held to the terms of the contract as written in most cases. Therefore, it's important that you negotiate for the terms you want, so that there is a true meeting of the minds. Only then will you both be truly satisfied should something go wrong, and there won't be a need for battling it out later costing everyone time and money.

Genetic defects like Leggs Perthes, Hip Dysplasia and Patellar Luxations that are high grades IMO should be covered for longer than a year because these conditions might not manifest themselves until a little later as with my dog. If you want, give me your email and I'll show you Teddy's xray of his necrotic hip. My surgeon said that 95% of vets looking at his xray would expect a dog that is limping and lame, yet my Teddy runs around like an agility dog, taking leaps and bounds that would astound! Fact is, that seemingly normal running and playing is temporary, and the day will come, as sure as the sun will rise, when he needs to have surgery to cut off his femoral head.

She's covering other stuff up to 5 years, so why exclude these things since they are so painful, expensive to treat, and known to be genetic or congenital.

Originally Posted by carmen in nj (Post 3862820)

As a breeder, a contract is as good as the breeder who signs it, NO bredder can guarantee the health of her puppies 100% I do stress the importance of knowing where your breeding pair comes from, and have them test for EVERY illness known to affect the specific breed. also if the breeder there to support you thru out the life of the pup? can you call for advise if need be? in an emergency will breeder take the dog back? can you ask for references of other puppy owners from this particular breeder?
can you visit with mom and dad and see whow they live? To me as a breeder, Reputable is NOT what I sell my puppies for, but that the people who buy a puppy from me are Happy and the pup is in a happy enviroment, I know my dogs are Healthy but if any sickness due to genetics arrive i am right there to find out why, when, and how this happend and help the family in everything I can. Even if that means take my dog back make him better and then return him to his family.. that to me is a REPUTABLE Responsible breeder..
hugs,

Originally Posted by R_Z (Post 3862932)

At the end of the day, you will be doing the research, the personal chat with the breeder, paying the price and raising the dog. It's always wise to do your homework by looking up all the info you can get. When you ask for feedback anywhere, you're going to get all kinds. Some positive and some . . . well not so much. You have to make your own choice regardless of what others say.

I'm sure you will do great and I wish you loads of luck. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC (Post 3862778)

I am not sure anymore haha. I thought Deb Siller's has a wonderful contract. Most breeders guarantee what she guarantees but only for a year (she has it for 5 years) so I really have no idea now. I jumped at the opportunity to have one of her pups but not I am hearing that her contract is ok so I don't know :(

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3863008)

As I said before, a contract of any nature, but particularly for a pup you are going to spend a lifetime with, should be reviewed by your lawyer. Let your lawyer advise you on the particulars.

Having said that the longest guarantee I've seen is 10 yrs from genetic issues. That did include PRA, LP, LS, and CT for example. There are also varying kidney and liver diseases that are thought to be genetic. Now if in legal terms you actually get a five year guarantee across the board; that would be unusual for this breed, and something the lawyer would need to know. Then the lawyer can tell you if that guarantee is worth the paper it is written on.

We are not lawyers here, take that contract to your lawyer for review.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3863205)

Actually that is not true. Someone here IS an attorney. Not that the person is posting to give legal advice...but....just saying.........

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3863226)

Actually we have quite a few professionals on YT...and more than many of us probably know. I am not referring to the imagined ones that post on every online forum. We all have seen them......they can be anything when sitting in front of a computer screen. Look at me, I am a "blah blah blah" ... and never did the work except in their dreams. I guess the lesson to be learned is to always do your own homework. :)

Originally Posted by Baby Teddy (Post 3863006)

Good luck with your puppy search!! How exciting!!

I live in NYC too and I have two little yorkie butts!! Teddy is a year old and Piper is 6 months. In my opinion they are the perfect dogs for the city! Do you have pictures of the little girl you are considering?

Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3863008)

As I said before, a contract of any nature, but particularly for a pup you are going to spend a lifetime with, should be reviewed by your lawyer. Let your lawyer advise you on the particulars.

Having said that the longest guarantee I've seen is 10 yrs from genetic issues. That did include PRA, LP, LS, and CT for example. There are also varying kidney and liver diseases that are thought to be genetic. Now if in legal terms you actually get a five year guarantee across the board; that would be unusual for this breed, and something the lawyer would need to know. Then the lawyer can tell you if that guarantee is worth the paper it is written on.

We are not lawyers here, take that contract to your lawyer for review.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 3863238)

When you are a professional you do not need to boast of the knowledge that you hold. It will be seen clearly from the articulate and well thought out posts that are shared with other members. I hate when I try to read "information" that is filled with jumbled inaccuracies.

Originally Posted by carmen in nj (Post 3862820)

As a breeder, a contract is as good as the breeder who signs it, NO bredder can guarantee the health of her puppies 100% I do stress the importance of knowing where your breeding pair comes from, and have them test for EVERY illness known to affect the specific breed. also if the breeder there to support you thru out the life of the pup? can you call for advise if need be? in an emergency will breeder take the dog back? can you ask for references of other puppy owners from this particular breeder?
can you visit with mom and dad and see whow they live? To me as a breeder, Reputable is NOT what I sell my puppies for, but that the people who buy a puppy from me are Happy and the pup is in a happy enviroment, I know my dogs are Healthy but if any sickness due to genetics arrive i am right there to find out why, when, and how this happend and help the family in everything I can. Even if that means take my dog back make him better and then return him to his family.. that to me is a REPUTABLE Responsible breeder..
hugs,

Originally Posted by KazzyK810 (Post 3863309)

While a well written contract that protects both parties interest is a substantial part of the process of obtaining a puppy, the reality is the cost of representation to enforce that contract can cost you as much as if not more that you would ever recoup under the contract. That's why seeing the pups and actually meeting and conversing with the breeder in person, and getting owner & vet references, is so important.

But this does make me wonder...
Can you imagine a couple adopting a child and then years later when the child develops medical problems, trying to sue the biological parents for possibly inherited defects? Everyone (I'm assuming...) hopes to adopt a healthy baby (fur or skin), but the reality is, you never know what diseases/afflictions may arise in the future in any offspring, whether yours or adopted. We have such incredibly high expectations of breeders to consistently produce only healthy babies...sometimes I wonder if it is reasonable.

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC (Post 3863312)

I actually take some advice less seriously when it is grammatically incorrect and not well-thought out :D Probably not the best thing to do haha.

Originally Posted by KazzyK810 (Post 3863309)

While a well written contract that protects both parties interest is a substantial part of the process of obtaining a puppy, the reality is the cost of representation to enforce that contract can cost you as much as if not more that you would ever recoup under the contract. That's why seeing the pups and actually meeting and conversing with the breeder in person, and getting owner & vet references, is so important.

But this does make me wonder...
Can you imagine a couple adopting a child and then years later when the child develops medical problems, trying to sue the biological parents for possibly inherited defects? Everyone (I'm assuming...) hopes to adopt a healthy baby (fur or skin), but the reality is, you never know what diseases/afflictions may arise in the future in any offspring, whether yours or adopted. We have such incredibly high expectations of breeders to consistently produce only healthy babies...sometimes I wonder if it is reasonable.

Originally Posted by NicoleNYC (Post 3864148)

You know, that is a perfect metaphor if you ask me. I think it is a little ridiculous that everyone wants a perfect contract or a perfect Yorkie, but it's just like human genetics. I have studied genetics for a very long time and if there's on thing they tell you, recessive genes can pop up at any time in the pedigree and unless you do an extensive background check, there is no way to prevent these diseases. And even if you found out that your child had the disease, would you decide not to keep it? It's still your child. I don't want to get into a completely different conversation, haha, but a lot of people on this forum treat their Yorkie's as if they were their children, trying to give them the best care they can provide etc. So I am simply trying to get the best for my puppy from the beginning. It's not that I am looking for her to definitely be healthy, but just for her to have a good background as in a good set of parents/grandparent without any genetic defects. I want the puppy to be well brought up just like if someone adopted a child they would hope the same, but at the same time, if something went wrong, I don't think it would be as easy as the contract makes it seem to simply return the baby back to the breeder.

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3864207)

I'd never give my dog back to a breeder. But some people would, and that is why breeders include that offer. There are many people who simply can't or won't invest tens of thousands of dollars into their sick dog. Take a look at sick and injured forum where at least every day or so we have someone complaining that they can't afford a basic vet visit so you just know they can't take care of a dog with multiple genetic issues requiring long term treatment and management. Some people DO NOT think of the dog's best interest, and edit the facts to suit their reality meanwhile the dog sits by and suffers. Some even have the audacity to sit and pontificate to others about what should be done for their dogs, but yet don't live by their own rules! They really just talk in platitudes (:::YAWN:::). With a sick dog, there are also the long term emotional issues - ask any of us with older dogs that have been sick their whole lives and we can tell you that you DO and WILL suffer some level of burn out with a sick dog. I'd do almost anything for my dogs, but I'd be an out and out liar if I said it was easy or pleasant at times. It is very stressful and very expensive and very hard. That's why good breeders are so selective, and don't ship their dogs off to any old person who wants one, because they too want to know that their buyers are committed to the dog for the long term. I even had one breeder who asked me if I owned my home before she'd tell me about her dogs.