Buying a Yorkie that is not from a puppy mill
 

There are numerous threads on this website that discuss the importance of not supporting puppy mills. However, it seems all searches for buying Yorkies online end up at popular websites that seem to be filled with dogs sold by Amish people or sellers who have 50+ dogs and/or are selling many breeds.

For a great example, go to google.com and search for yorkies for sale in pa.

While there are a few people selling Yorkies here, there isn't a good selection and most sellers don't live nearby (I'm in Harrisburg, PA). This makes buying a Yorkie from suspected puppy mill websites pretty convenient for me. Or maybe even my only option.

Does anyone know of websites that have a good selection of Yorkies that are being sold by reputable people?

Go to www.ytca.org; breeders referral listing page. These are the breeder members of the National Yorkshire Terrier Club of USA.

With Harrisburgh Pa, you are not too far from New York right? Hamburgh NY is having a dog show 2wks or so from now. Go to the dog show and meet some Yorkie breeders who will be exhibiting there.
Here is the link MB-F Show # 2005 Kennel Club Of Buffalo, Inc. - Friday January 13, 2012 The judging schedule should be up next Wednesday which will give you the ring # and the time the Yorkshire Terriers are scheduled to be shown.

Also Harrisburg has some pretty big shows, you can find out dates and times by going to the above website.

Many dog shows are free to enter for the public. It is a very good way not only to meet the breeders but to actually see some of their dogs.

gemy, thanks for your suggestions.

Hamburg, NY is about 5.5 hours from me. That is too far to travel to only potentially be on my way to finding a nice Yorkie. Further more, I am not looking for a show dog, so going to a dog show seems a little bit over the top.

I am just a regular guy looking for a pet. It doesn't make sense for people to have to go through so much trouble to buy a Yorkie. I suppose this is why people are buying from puppy mills. It's so easy to find and purchase those dogs.

I just wanted to wish you well in your search. I believe there are many good breeders out there, you just need to take your time and find the right one.
Your baby is out there, I am sure :) Good luck!

Breny, thanks for your kind wishes. It's unfortunate that we have to wish people good luck when trying to find a Yorkie from a reputable seller.

It seems like an easy idea for someone to create a website where sellers can be screened and buyers can be sure they are not buying from a puppy mill. YorkieTalk does just that on a very small scale.

There is a website like that! The Yorkshire Terrier Club Breeder referral! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club Seriously, you still have to do your homework, and really really understand what makes a good breeder, and why certain things are so important, but when you buy from a breeder you will be telling them that you approve of their breeding program, please don't give that approval too easily! By the way, good for you for even caring enough to ask these important questions.

I understand the idea of buying from good breeders. However, why is it so hard for people to find these reputable breeders, and most importantly, see the puppies that are available?

You could be the most reputable breeder in the world, but, if I don't like your puppies, I am not going to buy from you. It seems kind of silly to do a bunch of research, travel hours to go to dog shows (which I have no interest in), etc. just to find puppies that are available.

What I would like to see is a website that lists puppies from reputable sellers/breeders, like this site (yes, I've been told not to buy from here):

Yorkshire Terrier Puppies for Sale | Lancaster Puppies

And when I find a puppy I like, I can contact the seller and start my research at that point.

Perhaps I just don't understand how this process works. I'd like to think that people want to be able to easily find pets and breeders want to easily find good homes for those pets.

Lots of good questions, but I think buying anything that's a long term investment is difficult. It use to be you could trust certain manufacturers or just go with certain names, that's not true anymore. Trying to buy a new range now and it’s maddening! :p

All breeders, not just good ones are leery of the general public coming into their homes. I suggest that people call a few breeders and let the relationship build. As many have said you are buying the breeder, not the dog. The first person I call when I have a question about Joey is his breeder, I believe she knows as much if not more than the vet about many things, and she will tell me if I need to see the vet. I have very strong feelings about who should be breeding and why they should breed, and that’s to preserve and improve the breed. I want to see lots of healthy Yorkies 100 years from now! I think it's important to support breeders who are following a standard, and if you don't like the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier than I think you should find a dog breed where you like the standard. You feel like it's more about picking the puppy that you like the way it looks, but if you have ever had a dog that died early due to genetic illness, you might feel differently. I wanted a healthy puppy, one who had every chance to go through life without any genetic problems, so finding a breeder who knew her line did health testing, and kept in touch with past clients was important to me. She championed dogs before breeding and so she was breeding to an acceptable standard, and that important to me, because the Humane Society says that dogs who more closely meet standard of any breed are less likely to be put to sleep. By the way, puppies change so much the first few months, and it’s really difficult for the untrained eye to know what a puppy will look like as an adult, but I feel like it’s more important to really support a great breeder than it is to get the cutest dog on the block. So many of the cute dogs have serious health problems, and most really great breeders seem to think it more important to have a dog with great “structure” than it is to have a dog with a cutie pie face, because structure can indicate overall health. Lol, find the right breeder and you can get both!

Just wanted to add one more thing, it's really probably easier to find a great breeder if you choose a breed that not a bit popular. The only breeders you will find are those that truly love the breed and are only breeding for the right reason, and that's never to produce "pets". Until you really understand that concept, you will have a hard time getting the difference between breeders.

I have a lot of comments/questions, so bear with me :)

People in general are leery of the general public coming into their homes. Just as YorkieTalk does in its "for sale" forums, breeders should be doing their homework before they let just anyone come into their homes.

I don't think most people want to buy a breeder. Most people are most interested in finding a healthy "pet" of a specific breed, sex, size, etc. Most people are very busy too. Why not use the power of the Internet to save everyone some time? It's certainly working out extremely well for puppy mills.

Making it impossible to easily get in touch with people who believe in the breed is only helping to promote puppy mills. I don't understand how so many people are against puppy mills, but nobody is interested in working on a reasonable resolution. Telling people to go to dog shows, research breeders, meet breeders, etc. is just not reasonable. Asking people to come to a site like YorkieTalk and offer a "for sale" thread with sellers that can be trusted seems like a much better idea. Unfortunately, that idea does not scale well enough.

Like most other average people, I don't know the standard for Yorkies. I'd like to think that is the breeder's job to understand and sell me on when I choose to buy from them.

That is important to me. I also feel that it's very important to buy a healthy puppy from a reputable breeder/seller.

That happened to me 3 weeks ago. My 3-month-old Yorkie had a liver shunt, went into a coma, and I had to put him to sleep.

I think this is very important to everyone -- even if it's more indirectly for some. The problem is that there isn't a place where you can go and be guaranteed to only find sellers who are doing these things.

I can appreciate that. However, you are not going to buy the ugliest dog on the block just because it came from the best breeder.

And with the power of the Internet, that statement blows my mind. Puppy mills have no trouble helping people find them, so it's not impossible for reputable breeders/sellers to do the same.

I'm not sure what this means. Yorkies are not "pets"? So, do you recommend that I go buy a "pet" from a puppy mill instead?

You make a lot of good points, and all I can say is that I feel very strongly about these things, but it took me a long time to get here. I can't bear the thought of dogs living in puppy mills. Here's a thread and U-tube I wrote about buying from puppy mills. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/mis...g-graphic.html I also have written and posted on many threads that would help educate someone on how to find a good breeder. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/pup...kie-puppy.html and I like to think I helped with this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...e-breeder.html.

The thing of it is, there are no easy answers. I'm sorry you went through such a tragedy, and while this can happen to any breeder because there is no test for a marker for Liver Shunt, it does of course help if she knows the lines. How did your breeder handle this? I believe a great breeder would have given you a full money refund. Regarding buying a dog from a Yorkietalker, anyone can join Yorkietalk, and a good salesman knows how to win friends and influence people, this isn't what I want in a breeder, but there are breeders on YT who I think are really trying to do the best by the breed and do stand behind their dogs.

Also, I think people tell people to go to dog shows, if they are looking for a mentor, or want a breeding dog, not so much if they just want a pet.

Have you ever heard of the term patron of the arts? It's where someone supports an artist's work, they may not think each individual work is brilliant, but they believe in the artist overall and what they are trying to acomplish. That's the way I wish people felt about their breeders. After all, the best of the best dogs, should become breeding dogs, not pets, so I'm willing to have an imperfect dog as my pet, but if you go to a really good breeder that imperfect dog will still be a beautiful example of the breed.

I kind of feel like you are trying to make excuses for puppy mills and there is no excuse for puppy mills. There are so many health issues and problems you can avoid by getting a puppy from a good breeder also when you buy from a puppy mill you then become part of the reason that the mother dog is suffering. Spending the extra time to find a good breeder will prove to be worth it when you have a happy healthy little puppy that you will have for hopefully many many years. When buying a puppy mill puppy you are signing up to spend lots and lots of money at the vet for the dogs whole life.

That's what I want to help fix. I want to make it easier for the average person to get in touch with reputable breeders/sellers. And I guess I should have mentioned this from the start, but I am referring to people who are looking for pets. If someone is looking for a breeding dog, then it probably does make sense to do a lot of research, go out and meet many breeders, go to shows, etc.

I did not buy from a breeder. I did some research on the Internet and thought I was buying from a good person. Perhaps he was a good person. He did refund my money. And as you can probably guess, it's not the money I really cared about. I can go out and make more money, but I will never have my friend back.

Agreed. Unfortunately, there are not enough of these great people here to meet the demand.

Agreed. And the imperfect puppies that you speak of probably look very cute to the untrained eye of the average person. The same untrained eye cannot tell a sick dog from a healthy dog, nor can they often differentiate between a puppy mill that came from a puppy mill and a puppy raised in a good home by a reputable breeder.

I am so sorry to hear of the loss of you Yorkie. It seems Yorkies are everywhere these days, but not always available through reportable breeders who care about providing healthy well adjusted and socialized dogs/pets to families.

As for your search for a reportable breeder and not a PM this is what I found on the AKC website.:

Yorkshire Terrier Puppies for Sale - AKC Breeders - Puppy Tips

I hope this helps you in your search for the perfect addition to your family!

And I kind of feel like you've read nothing above.

I am only trying to tell you that people buy from puppy mills because they don't know they are buying from puppy mills. They have no other reasonable options. They do research on the Internet, find puppies for sale online, and think they are doing the right thing.

Go ahead and experiment yourself. Search for that phrase at google.com from my first post above and see what you find in the top results. I'm sure you won't find any puppies being sold by people you believe to be reputable breeders/sellers.

This is the goal of any pet owner. Nobody in their right mind is looking for a puppy that has health issues.

And when you do nothing to help promote dogs that don't come from puppy mills, you are also becoming part of the reason that dogs are suffering. Unfortunately, posting about puppy mills here is not going to fix the problem.

Agreed. So, why is it so hard to do this? Do you really believe that if nothing is done to make this process eaiser that puppy mills are ever going to go away?

Again, nobody wants this. Also, I would find it hard to believe that you could find even one person who would be happy to buy from a puppy mill. But, many people do it. That just tells us that people are not informed.

You would be surprised how many people come on here knowing they should not buy a puppy from a pet store but do anyway to "rescue" it or from a person in a parking lot selling puppies. You may think I am just sitting here doing nothing about puppy mills but that is your opinion because you have no idea what I do and don't. But if people did do there research they would be able to tell who's a good breeder and whose not. Like do they let there puppies go before 12 weeks, do they use words such as teacup, apple head, baby doll face, do they health test, can you see the parent and where the puppies grow up, are the akc registered, and some I have probably forgotten. There are many red flags a person should look for and if they do good research you should be able to pick out the bad ones and good ones. I try to educate about puppy mills every chance I get and I do not support them.

The average person does not know to do these things. If only the minority is doing the proper research, then you're only solving the problem for the minority. Puppy mills exist for a reason. And I don't think that reason is because people like to "rescue" dogs...

You mentioned the very reason WHY I'm on YT everyday. I learned about the YTCA through Yorkietalk, although I had to read a blank load of threads to get that information. I'm here because I want to make it easier for other to find a good breeder. I understand that not everyone will have the time to do what I did, so I think I've made it a little easier for them.

There was a website run by an individual who recommended Yorkie breeders. He listed both YTCA members and nonmembers. This was a difficult task, but he personally knew everyone he recommended and had visited their kennels. He had an impeccable reputation, but this was a difficult job to keep current. Breeders can change, and even those who start with the right reasons, can end up taking shortcuts, so it's really up to the individual to learn what you want in a breeder and then find someone who can deliver those qualities to you.

I want to take that to the next level. I also want people to easily find the puppies that are available. I like what YorkieTalk does here in their "for sale" forums, but I think it should be done on a large scale so the average person is well-aware of how to find a good puppy. There must be many, many more good people like the ones that post their puppies here.

And this is perhaps why nobody has taken on this idea on a grand scale yet.

Puppy mills are getting shut down weekly so we are making a defferance. I think it wouldo be awesome if we could get a protest and draw more attention puppy mills being bad a getting on the news to let more people know but I am limited to what I can do because of my own illnesses but I try. Why don't you create something then for people who want to get a puppy from good breeders?

And this is a good thing. I think there are many people selling puppies (in PA anyhow) that don't have the best intentions. PA inspects kennels, but a good inspection doesn't mean they are breeding healthy dogs.

Yes. I think this solves a different problem though. I am not concerned about shutting down puppy mills. If the good breeders/sellers are easier to find, then puppy mills will start to go away on their own.

I'd like to do this. I don't know if people are interested in it... more so the breeders. Perhaps breeders aren't interested in posting their puppies online. If there are any breeders reading this thread, it would be great to hear your input.

First of all the only reason this worked at all is because the man had an impeccable reputation in the dog world, and he knew about breeders frontwards and backwards. How would you go about knowing all these breeders, you can't do it online, you have to do it personally and this takes years of experience. You find it difficult to find one decent breeder, but yet you imagine a way you could endorse hundreds of breeders? My thoughts say that this isn't really realistic.

If you are looking for a pet and not a show dog, there are formidable rescue places everywhere. Doesn't have to be a Yorkie rescue. It can be a small dog rescue. If you ask around local shelters they may be able to pass along your info. There are people, believe it or not, who buy these animals, think they are Paris Hilton, and then find out they don't take care of themselves. The either sell them, or take them to a pound. If you are not in a hurry you might find one. Another way is Craigslist. I found Bailey that way. He's been incredibly awesome.

Good luck.

I do not think it is feasable for one person to do it. But I wonder if there could be a site that gives feedback on breeders. Kind of like ebay has user feedback, it could be breeder feedback. The problem is it would take a long time for there to be enough data to get an accurate overview of the breeders.

Actually we have a great breeder review forum here, and it's really good because you get input from lots of people that you've known over time, so you know a little about what they are about. Regular places that review breeders are usually the breeder’s friends and relatives saying what a great breeder they are. If that happens here, we know it.

Pets a Much Maligned Term Such Low Expectations
 

It seems to me the general public has very low expectations when buying a pure bred dog for a life long companion. A purebreed dog should meet the standard in almost all the ways. That means PETS if bred properly should look like a Yorkie, talk like a Yorkie, walk like a Yorkie,etc. There should only be one to three small things, and maybe one major fault that has kept them out of the ring!.

Purebred show breeders (another term that seems to be maligned here), breed to improve the breed. They have spent many years studying the breed, being mentored, showing, researching pedigrees, and finally selecting the right pairing to mate. They have spent countless hours and many dollars and double that in love to bring a new litter into the world. They have done all the health checks have CHIC'd their dogs and then some, done all the pre breeding tests, and gnawed their nails raw, until a safe delivery. Each pup is lovingly welcomed into the world at the breeder's knees/hands. Then they are monitored 24/7 for the first few weeks of life. Their nails are still raw as the first few weeks of life are a delicate time, for both their beloved bitch and all of the pups. Those pups are the breeders whole world, and sometime about wk 4 or wk 5, they will proudly introduce these pups to a few well respected breeders/fanciers of the breed. They are socialized in a stepped process, and finally the litter "evaluator", someone like me who is a stranger to the litter, gets to evaluate their litter at eight wks. This is a structured evaluation and done individually on each pup. It will include structure/physique, temperament, coat/color. A measured assessment is done a guesstimate on how well this pup will meet the breed standard. I will likely not be the only evaluator either. Each dog is then returned to Mom or play crate, and an individual discussion takes place with the breeder as we go over each evaluation, in detail. This is a process that can take all day.

It will still take more time before I'm ready to release any of my beloved litter for sale. These will be for loving companions and some will be placed (if I'm lucky enough) into performance homes. These are folks who want to work with their dogs-some sort of sport activity or obedience or rally work. But each and every one of the pups will LOOK like a YORKIE, will be of sound health, will have an excellent temperament, and be well socialized with basic obedience skills prior to going to their for-ever home.

A PET is never a second rate dog from a show breeder!. Why would you not expect a very good representation of the breed? Why would you not invest the time and energy needed to find this?

You don't go to shows to find a "show" dog, you go to shows to learn what is a good representation of the breed. To meet some of the breeders. And to see some of their dogs.

As I mentioned before Harrisburg has a big show coming up early in the New Year. Philadelphia Kennel Club I believe, one of the largest indoor benched shows of the year.

Nancy is correct what you are purchasing is not so much a dog, but a relationship with the breeder, that will last the life of your dog,and perhaps your life too.

Now I can't see how an internet forum will be able to insure all breeder members are following these standards.

To breed to a Standard is not a meaningless concept. It is of dire importance to this breed, and to any breed. It is what will keep the YT the beautiful, feisty, athletic terrier it is, hopefully in perpetuity. The YT will not survive as a breed, unless there are those dedicated breeders who continue to strive to produce the best quality pups they can, through every means at their disposal.

Great post Gail!

I know what you are going through trying to find a reputable breeder that you can trust. It took me quite a while to find a good breeder that I trusted...I called and sent e-mails to SEVERAL breeders...We live in Mass and were willing to travel...yes even to PA where my husband is from...I really wanted to buy local...some of the "breeders" I spoke with had WAY to many red flags for me and their prices were insane...they also pointed out to me that these were "tinies" or show quality...this was NOT what I was looking for. I wanted a pet...I ended up buying from a featured breeder here on YT...I LOVE HER!! We spoke a couple of times and I KNEW she was the one I wanted to buy from..She does show and has champion yorkies...Breeders that breed for show don't always get show quality...I also went on AKC.org...breeders have to pay to be here...doesn't mean they are all "good" breeders...I found that out! If you go to a breeders site and you get pop ups (this happened to me) ...*delete*!...most likely a mill, or broker... (MO)...I wish you luck...I am VERY happy with our new little guy, Bentley, and would buy from this breeder again in a heartbeat!...just keep calling and asking questions...if a flag comes up...walk away...not very easy when they send pictures of them though!

If some people don't research before acquiring a yorkie, which can be an approx. 15 year commitment, what makes you think they'd bother to take the time to use a service that evaluates breeders?

Consumer reports (and others) rate products...yet many people buy on the spur of the moment and then wonder why their new purchase has issues.

While you may get a few more ...I think the majority of the people that do their research before any purchase, are the same people that would utilize a rating/screening system of breeders.

I see things like this referenced alot here on YT and ....I don't know how else to say this....but...it always rubs me the wrong way :eek:. I don't want a "relationship" with a breeder....I just want a healthy dog of my own.

I look at getting a puppy much like adopting a new member to my family. And for any adoptive member of my family I'd want a closed-adoption, not an open-adoption. I want my pup to be mine...not feel like I'm raising someone else's pup...if that makes sense.

Anyone else feel this way....or is it just the only-child in me screaming, "mine, mine, mine!" :D

I could see how that would. But I know what I mean is that you will get support from the breeder if you have questions, be that training, grooming, etc. Also a good breeder will want to know how the health of their dog is over the course of their life. It is very important information for the breeder.