Buying a Yorkie that is not from a puppy mill

[YorkieMan10]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

But if people did do there research they would be able to tell who's a good breeder and whose not. Like do they let there puppies go before 12 weeks, do they use words such as teacup, apple head, baby doll face, do they health test, can you see the parent and where the puppies grow up, are the akc registered, and some I have probably forgotten. There are many red flags a person should look for and if they do good research you should be able to pick out the bad ones and good ones.

The average person does not know to do these things. If only the minority is doing the proper research, then you're only solving the problem for the minority. Puppy mills exist for a reason. And I don't think that reason is because people like to "rescue" dogs...

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by YorkieMan10

That's what I want to help fix. I want to make it easier for the average person to get in touch with reputable breeders/sellers. And I guess I should have mentioned this from the start, but I am referring to people who are looking for pets. If someone is looking for a breeding dog, then it probably does make sense to do a lot of research, go out and meet many breeders, go to shows, etc.


I did not buy from a breeder. I did some research on the Internet and thought I was buying from a good person. Perhaps he was a good person. He did refund my money. And as you can probably guess, it's not the money I really cared about. I can go out and make more money, but I will never have my friend back.


Agreed. Unfortunately, there are not enough of these great people here to meet the demand.


Agreed. And the imperfect puppies that you speak of probably look very cute to the untrained eye of the average person. The same untrained eye cannot tell a sick dog from a healthy dog, nor can they often differentiate between a puppy mill that came from a puppy mill and a puppy raised in a good home by a reputable breeder.

You mentioned the very reason WHY I'm on YT everyday. I learned about the YTCA through Yorkietalk, although I had to read a blank load of threads to get that information. I'm here because I want to make it easier for other to find a good breeder. I understand that not everyone will have the time to do what I did, so I think I've made it a little easier for them.

There was a website run by an individual who recommended Yorkie breeders. He listed both YTCA members and nonmembers. This was a difficult task, but he personally knew everyone he recommended and had visited their kennels. He had an impeccable reputation, but this was a difficult job to keep current. Breeders can change, and even those who start with the right reasons, can end up taking shortcuts, so it's really up to the individual to learn what you want in a breeder and then find someone who can deliver those qualities to you.

[YorkieMan10]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

There was a website run by an individual who recommended Yorkie breeders.

I want to take that to the next level. I also want people to easily find the puppies that are available. I like what YorkieTalk does here in their "for sale" forums, but I think it should be done on a large scale so the average person is well-aware of how to find a good puppy. There must be many, many more good people like the ones that post their puppies here.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

This was a difficult task, but he personally knew everyone he recommended and had visited their kennels.

And this is perhaps why nobody has taken on this idea on a grand scale yet.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by YorkieMan10

The average person does not know to do these things. If only the minority is doing the proper research, then you're only solving the problem for the minority. Puppy mills exist for a reason. And I don't think that reason is because people like to "rescue" dogs...

Puppy mills are getting shut down weekly so we are making a defferance. I think it wouldo be awesome if we could get a protest and draw more attention puppy mills being bad a getting on the news to let more people know but I am limited to what I can do because of my own illnesses but I try. Why don't you create something then for people who want to get a puppy from good breeders?

[YorkieMan10]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Puppy mills are getting shut down weekly so we are making a defferance.

And this is a good thing. I think there are many people selling puppies (in PA anyhow) that don't have the best intentions. PA inspects kennels, but a good inspection doesn't mean they are breeding healthy dogs.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think it wouldo be awesome if we could get a protest and draw more attention puppy mills being bad a getting on the news

Yes. I think this solves a different problem though. I am not concerned about shutting down puppy mills. If the good breeders/sellers are easier to find, then puppy mills will start to go away on their own.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Why don't you create something then for people who want to get a puppy from good breeders?

I'd like to do this. I don't know if people are interested in it... more so the breeders. Perhaps breeders aren't interested in posting their puppies online. If there are any breeders reading this thread, it would be great to hear your input.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by YorkieMan10

I want to take that to the next level. I also want people to easily find the puppies that are available. I like what YorkieTalk does here in their "for sale" forums, but I think it should be done on a large scale so the average person is well-aware of how to find a good puppy. There must be many, many more good people like the ones that post their puppies here.


And this is perhaps why nobody has taken on this idea on a grand scale yet.

First of all the only reason this worked at all is because the man had an impeccable reputation in the dog world, and he knew about breeders frontwards and backwards. How would you go about knowing all these breeders, you can't do it online, you have to do it personally and this takes years of experience. You find it difficult to find one decent breeder, but yet you imagine a way you could endorse hundreds of breeders? My thoughts say that this isn't really realistic.

[R_Z]

If you are looking for a pet and not a show dog, there are formidable rescue places everywhere. Doesn't have to be a Yorkie rescue. It can be a small dog rescue. If you ask around local shelters they may be able to pass along your info. There are people, believe it or not, who buy these animals, think they are Paris Hilton, and then find out they don't take care of themselves. The either sell them, or take them to a pound. If you are not in a hurry you might find one. Another way is Craigslist. I found Bailey that way. He's been incredibly awesome.

Good luck.

[slthoeny]

I do not think it is feasable for one person to do it. But I wonder if there could be a site that gives feedback on breeders. Kind of like ebay has user feedback, it could be breeder feedback. The problem is it would take a long time for there to be enough data to get an accurate overview of the breeders.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by slthoeny

I do not think it is feasable for one person to do it. But I wonder if there could be a site that gives feedback on breeders. Kind of like ebay has user feedback, it could be breeder feedback. The problem is it would take a long time for there to be enough data to get an accurate overview of the breeders.

Actually we have a great breeder review forum here, and it's really good because you get input from lots of people that you've known over time, so you know a little about what they are about. Regular places that review breeders are usually the breeder’s friends and relatives saying what a great breeder they are. If that happens here, we know it.

[gemy]

It seems to me the general public has very low expectations when buying a pure bred dog for a life long companion. A purebreed dog should meet the standard in almost all the ways. That means PETS if bred properly should look like a Yorkie, talk like a Yorkie, walk like a Yorkie,etc. There should only be one to three small things, and maybe one major fault that has kept them out of the ring!.

Purebred show breeders (another term that seems to be maligned here), breed to improve the breed. They have spent many years studying the breed, being mentored, showing, researching pedigrees, and finally selecting the right pairing to mate. They have spent countless hours and many dollars and double that in love to bring a new litter into the world. They have done all the health checks have CHIC'd their dogs and then some, done all the pre breeding tests, and gnawed their nails raw, until a safe delivery. Each pup is lovingly welcomed into the world at the breeder's knees/hands. Then they are monitored 24/7 for the first few weeks of life. Their nails are still raw as the first few weeks of life are a delicate time, for both their beloved bitch and all of the pups. Those pups are the breeders whole world, and sometime about wk 4 or wk 5, they will proudly introduce these pups to a few well respected breeders/fanciers of the breed. They are socialized in a stepped process, and finally the litter "evaluator", someone like me who is a stranger to the litter, gets to evaluate their litter at eight wks. This is a structured evaluation and done individually on each pup. It will include structure/physique, temperament, coat/color. A measured assessment is done a guesstimate on how well this pup will meet the breed standard. I will likely not be the only evaluator either. Each dog is then returned to Mom or play crate, and an individual discussion takes place with the breeder as we go over each evaluation, in detail. This is a process that can take all day.

It will still take more time before I'm ready to release any of my beloved litter for sale. These will be for loving companions and some will be placed (if I'm lucky enough) into performance homes. These are folks who want to work with their dogs-some sort of sport activity or obedience or rally work. But each and every one of the pups will LOOK like a YORKIE, will be of sound health, will have an excellent temperament, and be well socialized with basic obedience skills prior to going to their for-ever home.

A PET is never a second rate dog from a show breeder!. Why would you not expect a very good representation of the breed? Why would you not invest the time and energy needed to find this?

You don't go to shows to find a "show" dog, you go to shows to learn what is a good representation of the breed. To meet some of the breeders. And to see some of their dogs.

As I mentioned before Harrisburg has a big show coming up early in the New Year. Philadelphia Kennel Club I believe, one of the largest indoor benched shows of the year.

Nancy is correct what you are purchasing is not so much a dog, but a relationship with the breeder, that will last the life of your dog,and perhaps your life too.

Now I can't see how an internet forum will be able to insure all breeder members are following these standards.

To breed to a Standard is not a meaningless concept. It is of dire importance to this breed, and to any breed. It is what will keep the YT the beautiful, feisty, athletic terrier it is, hopefully in perpetuity. The YT will not survive as a breed, unless there are those dedicated breeders who continue to strive to produce the best quality pups they can, through every means at their disposal.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by gemy

It seems to me the general public has very low expectations when buying a pure bred dog for a life long companion. A purebreed dog should meet the standard in almost all the ways. That means PETS if bred properly should look like a Yorkie, talk like a Yorkie, walk like a Yorkie,etc. There should only be one to three small things, and maybe one major fault that has kept them out of the ring!.

Purebred show breeders (another term that seems to be maligned here), breed to improve the breed. They have spent many years studying the breed, being mentored, showing, researching pedigrees, and finally selecting the right pairing to mate. They have spent countless hours and many dollars and double that in love to bring a new litter into the world. They have done all the health checks have CHIC'd their dogs and then some, done all the pre breeding tests, and gnawed their nails raw, until a safe delivery. Each pup is lovingly welcomed into the world at the breeder's knees/hands. Then they are monitored 24/7 for the first few weeks of life. Their nails are still raw as the first few weeks of life are a delicate time, for both their beloved bitch and all of the pups. Those pups are the breeders whole world, and sometime about wk 4 or wk 5, they will proudly introduce these pups to a few well respected breeders/fanciers of the breed. They are socialized in a stepped process, and finally the litter "evaluator", someone like me who is a stranger to the litter, gets to evaluate their litter at eight wks. This is a structured evaluation and done individually on each pup. It will include structure/physique, temperament, coat/color. A measured assessment is done a guesstimate on how well this pup will meet the breed standard. I will likely not be the only evaluator either. Each dog is then returned to Mom or play crate, and an individual discussion takes place with the breeder as we go over each evaluation, in detail. This is a process that can take all day.

It will still take more time before I'm ready to release any of my beloved litter for sale. These will be for loving companions and some will be placed (if I'm lucky enough) into performance homes. These are folks who want to work with their dogs-some sort of sport activity or obedience or rally work. But each and every one of the pups will LOOK like a YORKIE, will be of sound health, will have an excellent temperament, and be well socialized with basic obedience skills prior to going to their for-ever home.

A PET is never a second rate dog from a show breeder!. Why would you not expect a very good representation of the breed? Why would you not invest the time and energy needed to find this?

You don't go to shows to find a "show" dog, you go to shows to learn what is a good representation of the breed. To meet some of the breeders. And to see some of their dogs.

As I mentioned before Harrisburg has a big show coming up early in the New Year. Philadelphia Kennel Club I believe, one of the largest indoor benched shows of the year.

Nancy is correct what you are purchasing is not so much a dog, but a relationship with the breeder, that will last the life of your dog,and perhaps your life too.

Now I can't see how an internet forum will be able to insure all breeder members are following these standards.

To breed to a Standard is not a meaningless concept. It is of dire importance to this breed, and to any breed. It is what will keep the YT the beautiful, feisty, athletic terrier it is, hopefully in perpetuity. The YT will not survive as a breed, unless there are those dedicated breeders who continue to strive to produce the best quality pups they can, through every means at their disposal.

Great post Gail!

[BLowry]

I know what you are going through trying to find a reputable breeder that you can trust. It took me quite a while to find a good breeder that I trusted...I called and sent e-mails to SEVERAL breeders...We live in Mass and were willing to travel...yes even to PA where my husband is from...I really wanted to buy local...some of the "breeders" I spoke with had WAY to many red flags for me and their prices were insane...they also pointed out to me that these were "tinies" or show quality...this was NOT what I was looking for. I wanted a pet...I ended up buying from a featured breeder here on YT...I LOVE HER!! We spoke a couple of times and I KNEW she was the one I wanted to buy from..She does show and has champion yorkies...Breeders that breed for show don't always get show quality...I also went on AKC.org...breeders have to pay to be here...doesn't mean they are all "good" breeders...I found that out! If you go to a breeders site and you get pop ups (this happened to me) ...*delete*!...most likely a mill, or broker... (MO)...I wish you luck...I am VERY happy with our new little guy, Bentley, and would buy from this breeder again in a heartbeat!...just keep calling and asking questions...if a flag comes up...walk away...not very easy when they send pictures of them though!

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by YorkieMan10

The average person does not know to do these things. If only the minority is doing the proper research, then you're only solving the problem for the minority. Puppy mills exist for a reason. And I don't think that reason is because people like to "rescue" dogs...

If some people don't research before acquiring a yorkie, which can be an approx. 15 year commitment, what makes you think they'd bother to take the time to use a service that evaluates breeders?

Consumer reports (and others) rate products...yet many people buy on the spur of the moment and then wonder why their new purchase has issues.

While you may get a few more ...I think the majority of the people that do their research before any purchase, are the same people that would utilize a rating/screening system of breeders.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by gemy

Nancy is correct what you are purchasing is not so much a dog, but a relationship with the breeder, that will last the life of your dog,and perhaps your life too.

I see things like this referenced alot here on YT and ....I don't know how else to say this....but...it always rubs me the wrong way . I don't want a "relationship" with a breeder....I just want a healthy dog of my own.

I look at getting a puppy much like adopting a new member to my family. And for any adoptive member of my family I'd want a closed-adoption, not an open-adoption. I want my pup to be mine...not feel like I'm raising someone else's pup...if that makes sense.

Anyone else feel this way....or is it just the only-child in me screaming, "mine, mine, mine!"

[gemy]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

I see things like this referenced alot here on YT and ....I don't know how else to say this....but...it always rubs me the wrong way . I don't want a "relationship" with a breeder....I just want a healthy dog of my own.

I look at getting a puppy much like adopting a new member to my family. And for any adoptive member of my family I'd want a closed-adoption, not an open-adoption. I want my pup to be mine...not feel like I'm raising someone else's pup...if that makes sense.

Anyone else feel this way....or is it just the only-child in me screaming, "mine, mine, mine!"

I could see how that would. But I know what I mean is that you will get support from the breeder if you have questions, be that training, grooming, etc. Also a good breeder will want to know how the health of their dog is over the course of their life. It is very important information for the breeder.