Tail Docking

[alisonJ]

I might be stirring up a little trouble here, but I am curious about your opinon of tail docking. Edie has her tail docked, like most Yorkies. It used to be the conventional wisdom that puppies only a day or two old did not feel pain as much as older dogs, and that tail docking was not considered cruel. The more I read, the more veterinarians are saying that it DOES hurt them, and it poses unnecessary risks for infection.

Since tail docking is only for cosmetic purposes, I am considering that in the future, I will request that the breeder not dock the tail of a puppy that i purchase.

I have seen Yorkies with undocked tails, and they are very cute.

More and more, this procedure is being banned (in other countries, primarily). Here is one link that has some info
[URL=http://www.helpinganimals.com/h-mut-ear.html]

You may have heard that PETA is suing the Westminster dog show because certain breeds must have docked tails in order to compete. They might be suing AKC also...am not sure.

When you think about it, it is really senseless, isn't it???. What do you think???? Anyone here with an undocked Yorkie???

[Thorsmomma]

Great point. This is a topic that really interests me. I think that they deff. feel pain, and it has to be traumatizing!!(jmo) You are cutting through BONE to dock their tails. Although I think it is painful for the dogs, I do like the look. It would make more sense to give a local anesthetic or something...I would love to hear other people's comments.
Hannah

[alisonJ]

Here is another link about docking

http://www.angelfire.com/anime/taildocking/

[Thorsmomma]

HUmm is it just me...it didn't work...

[Thorsmomma]

Ahhh forgive me, I am impatient!

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by alisonJ

I might be stirring up a little trouble here, but I am curious about your opinon of tail docking. Edie has her tail docked, like most Yorkies. It used to be the conventional wisdom that puppies only a day or two old did not feel pain as much as older dogs, and that tail docking was not considered cruel. The more I read, the more veterinarians are saying that it DOES hurt them, and it poses unnecessary risks for infection.

Since tail docking is only for cosmetic purposes, I am considering that in the future, I will request that the breeder not dock the tail of a puppy that i purchase.

I have seen Yorkies with undocked tails, and they are very cute.

More and more, this procedure is being banned (in other countries, primarily). Here is one link that has some info
[URL=http://www.helpinganimals.com/h-mut-ear.html]

You may have heard that PETA is suing the Westminster dog show because certain breeds must have docked tails in order to compete. They might be suing AKC also...am not sure.

When you think about it, it is really senseless, isn't it???. What do you think???? Anyone here with an undocked Yorkie???

Like with human babies, the bones are very soft. I have a problem with PETA, they only step in when they can get publicity, I didn't notice them stepping in when all of those animals needed help during hurricane Katrina...Also, PETA has one of the largest freezer's in New York City...I have seen report after report about their practices...

[alisonJ]

Yes, PETA can be extreme, but they aren't always wrong. In fact, I agree with them on their stance about fur (but that is another subject).

After reading this article

http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfiel...e/816/id30.htm

I have pretty much decided to never have a dogs tail docked.

This part really got to me:

Tail docking involves the removal of all or part of the tail using cutting or crushing instruments. Muscles, tendons, 4 to 7 pairs of nerves and sometimes bone or cartilage are severed. The initial pain from the direct injury to the nervous system would be intense and at a level that would not be permitted to be inflicted on humans. The subsequent tissue injury and inflammation, especially if the tail is left to heal as an open would will produce the algogenic substances (Pain killing), the 'sensitising soup' and the 'dorsal horn wind up' required for peripheral and central sensitisation and the development of ongoing pathological pain.


Puppies are usually subjected to this pain and trauma at 2 to 5 days of age when the level of pain would be much greater than an adult would experience because the efferent stimuli reaching the dorsal horn from a greater density of sensitised cutaneous nociceptors will exceed that of the adult and the strength and frequency of painful stimuli reaching the brain will be greater because inhibitory pain pathways will not be developed.


The whimpering and the 'escape response' (continual movements) exhibited by most puppies following tail docking, are evidence that they are feeling substantial pain. Animals tend to be more stoic than humans due to an inherent preservation instinct. Because some puppies do not show signs of intense suffering it does not mean that the pain inflicted on them has not registered in their central nervous system. Cosmetic tail docking is most often performed without any anesthesia or analgesia and only manual restraint is used.

[livingdustmops]

I would kill to get a Yorkie with a tail....I LOVE IT!

This does not effect Yorkie's but you would have to include ear docking (I think that is the term), declawing a cat as well. I am not in favor of either of these but I was talking to a friend from the south the other day that said alot of dogs with floppy ears got more ear infections than docked ears because of the hot and humid conditions. I thought that was interesting and food for thought. Another point is dew claws on a dog that easily can be ripped so it does seem kinder to do this when it is still a few days old than surgery down the road.

I will tell you that most of my dogs are probably from backyard breeders and they did a lousy job with their tails or lack of tail would be a better description. I only have one from a show breeder that has a very nice tail the rest are just stubbs.

It would not be a choice I would make and if I was buying a puppy I would ask to leave it's tails on. But the chance of me buying a puppy are nill.

Interesting topic.

[LittleMsScruffy]

I'm new here and haven't officially introduced my little one but this is one thread I have to reply to. My precious baby was given to me by a coworker that found her lost and sick wondering the streets. She was 4 months old and even though my coworker posted Found signs all over her neighborhood no one ever claimed her. We didn't find this strange considering that she was so unhealthy that she looked like a mutt Well she is healthy now but apart from her floppy ears she also has a long tail. My vet warned me that if I was going to Dock it I would have to do it immediatly because she was already 4 months old. My first question to him was "is it cosmetic or for health reasons"? After finding out it was simply cosmetics my husband and I decided that we were not going to do it. Besides would I like it if my parents would have cut some part of me off just because they did not like the way I looked? I understand that there are people that have show dogs and there are others that simply like the tail docked. I respect that, but I don't like the idea. I love the fact that when my little one gets happy its so easy to see that happiness by the movement of her tail. In the mornings when she gets up (she's our alarm clock ) that long tail of hers starts wacking the headboard so loud from her exitement that we just have to get up. She has been known to hit us with hit also. Not on purpose but she gets so exited that her tail just goes crazy. The tail is also great to locate her when she is catching bugs in the garden. Those moments are so special that I'm glad I did not take her little tail off.

[alisonJ]

That is a great story. I would have done the same thing. Australia is making it illegal to dock tails unless it is for the animal's well being (i.e. the tail is injured) or if it is a working dog where the tail could pose some risk of injury. The UK has a huge anti-docking contingent now. The US has been slower to take up this discussion, but I am sure we will see a lot more undocked tails in the future! I am looking forward to it.

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by alisonJ

Yes, PETA can be extreme, but they aren't always wrong. In fact, I agree with them on their stance about fur (but that is another subject).

After reading this article

http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfiel...e/816/id30.htm

I have pretty much decided to never have a dogs tail docked.

This part really got to me:

Tail docking involves the removal of all or part of the tail using cutting or crushing instruments. Muscles, tendons, 4 to 7 pairs of nerves and sometimes bone or cartilage are severed. The initial pain from the direct injury to the nervous system would be intense and at a level that would not be permitted to be inflicted on humans. The subsequent tissue injury and inflammation, especially if the tail is left to heal as an open would will produce the algogenic substances (Pain killing), the 'sensitising soup' and the 'dorsal horn wind up' required for peripheral and central sensitisation and the development of ongoing pathological pain.


Puppies are usually subjected to this pain and trauma at 2 to 5 days of age when the level of pain would be much greater than an adult would experience because the efferent stimuli reaching the dorsal horn from a greater density of sensitised cutaneous nociceptors will exceed that of the adult and the strength and frequency of painful stimuli reaching the brain will be greater because inhibitory pain pathways will not be developed.


The whimpering and the 'escape response' (continual movements) exhibited by most puppies following tail docking, are evidence that they are feeling substantial pain. Animals tend to be more stoic than humans due to an inherent preservation instinct. Because some puppies do not show signs of intense suffering it does not mean that the pain inflicted on them has not registered in their central nervous system. Cosmetic tail docking is most often performed without any anesthesia or analgesia and only manual restraint is used.

Can, I ask you a personal question...When you were looking for yorkies, did you ask the breeder did she dock the tails? DId you look for yorkies that tails were still attached, or for a breeder who just had her litter so you could have a say in the docking of your yorkies tail. In dog's where the breed standard calls for docked tails, it's not Cosmetic.

PETA isn't a great representer of anything, but fur. Even, that is questionable.

[alisonJ]

To tell you the truth, tail docking was not on my radar screen at the time I got Edie (5 years ago). I admit that I did not do all the research I should have done before I got Edie---but I did a lot after I got her. Fortunately, we were lucky, she is healthy, and we did a lot of things right without even knowing it. I would have done it differently now. by doing all the research beforehand.

I have to disagree with you...the breed standard is based on cosmetics.... So the tail docking is a breed standard AND it is cosmetic. The Australian Kennel Club is now allowing undocked tails in competitions, and many undocked dogs are WINNING in the UK and AUS.

The British Veterinary Association, the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA) and the RCVS are all opposed to the docking of puppies’ tails. Veterinary bodies and welfare organisations such as Dogs Trust believe that puppies are caused unnecessary pain as a result of docking and are deprived of a vital form of canine expression.

Tail docking began hundreds of years ago when people had a very different attitude to dogs and ’animal welfare’ was unheard of. Docking is thought to have been (mostly mistakenly) used for the following reasons; to increase a dog’s speed, prevention of damage in dog fights, prevention of back injury, rabies prevention and even tax evasion!
These days, the main reasons given for keeping docking are:

To avoid tail damage
Reasons of hygiene
To maintain breed standards

To maintain breed standards? This is docking for cosmetic reasons and that is just not good enough! The Kennel Club (in the UK) changed the breed standards so that previously docked breeds could now be shown with tails, so there’s really no excuse. The pain and disadvantages associated with docking cannot be allowed just so that a dog will look a certain way. Dogs are born with tails for a reason – if they didn’t need them, evolution would have made them smaller or got rid of them altogether by now!

Check this out...
http://www.anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/

[alisonJ]

I think this is a very cute yorkie--tail and all!

[PlatinumYorkies]

Originally Posted by alisonJ

Tail docking began hundreds of years ago when people had a very different attitude to dogs and ’animal welfare’ was unheard of. Docking is thought to have been (mostly mistakenly) used for the following reasons; to increase a dog’s speed, prevention of damage in dog fights, prevention of back injury, rabies prevention and even tax evasion!
These days, the main reasons given for keeping docking are:

To avoid tail damage
Reasons of hygiene
To maintain breed standards

To maintain breed standards? This is docking for cosmetic reasons and that is just not good enough! The Kennel Club (in the UK) changed the breed standards so that previously docked breeds could now be shown with tails, so there’s really no excuse. The pain and disadvantages associated with docking cannot be allowed just so that a dog will look a certain way. Dogs are born with tails for a reason – if they didn’t need them, evolution would have made them smaller or got rid of them altogether by now!

Actually, you left out the none cosmetic reasons for tail docking , Hygiene, and avoising tail damage.

[alisonJ]

oh--glad you mentioned that....I think most docking is done for cosmetics, but there are 2 other "excuses"...to avoid tail damage and for hygiene reasons....Here are the arguements against those reasons. I didn't write all of this, but it makes sense to me....


Is avoiding tail damage a good reason for docking?? Any dog can damage their tail but not all dogs are docked. Why are some ‘working’ dogs docked and not others? Why aren’t any of the Retrievers or Setters docked? They’ve got waggier tails than most breeds I know. Why not the hounds? They were bred to hunt over all sorts of terrain, and yet they’re allowed to keep their tails. It doesn’t make much sense to me.

The BSAVA states that they do not believe there is any scientific evidence to show that undocked working dogs damage their tails any more than undocked non-working dogs and therefore see no justification for an exemption for working dogs. Surely this says it all?

Are Reasons of hygiene a reason to dock tails? Call me crazy but isn’t it more humane (though less convenient and time consuming obviously!) to wash or clip the hair away from a dog’s bottom than to chop off his tail? If a dog is regularly groomed, healthy and eating good quality food then there shouldn’t be a lot of muck around his bottom anyway.

The RCVS says that faecal soiling is not a disease or injury and so cannot be a justifiable reason for docking a dog. I agree.