Tail Docking
 

I might be stirring up a little trouble here, but I am curious about your opinon of tail docking. Edie has her tail docked, like most Yorkies. It used to be the conventional wisdom that puppies only a day or two old did not feel pain as much as older dogs, and that tail docking was not considered cruel. The more I read, the more veterinarians are saying that it DOES hurt them, and it poses unnecessary risks for infection.

Since tail docking is only for cosmetic purposes, I am considering that in the future, I will request that the breeder not dock the tail of a puppy that i purchase.

I have seen Yorkies with undocked tails, and they are very cute.

More and more, this procedure is being banned (in other countries, primarily). Here is one link that has some info
[URL=http://www.helpinganimals.com/h-mut-ear.html]

You may have heard that PETA is suing the Westminster dog show because certain breeds must have docked tails in order to compete. They might be suing AKC also...am not sure.

When you think about it, it is really senseless, isn't it???. What do you think???? :confused: Anyone here with an undocked Yorkie???

Great point. This is a topic that really interests me. I think that they deff. feel pain, and it has to be traumatizing!!(jmo) You are cutting through BONE to dock their tails. Although I think it is painful for the dogs, I do like the look. It would make more sense to give a local anesthetic or something...I would love to hear other people's comments.
Hannah

Here is another link about docking

http://www.angelfire.com/anime/taildocking/

HUmm is it just me...it didn't work...

Ahhh forgive me, I am impatient!

Like with human babies, the bones are very soft. I have a problem with PETA, they only step in when they can get publicity, I didn't notice them stepping in when all of those animals needed help during hurricane Katrina...Also, PETA has one of the largest freezer's in New York City...I have seen report after report about their practices...

Yes, PETA can be extreme, but they aren't always wrong. In fact, I agree with them on their stance about fur (but that is another subject).

After reading this article

http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfiel...e/816/id30.htm

I have pretty much decided to never have a dogs tail docked.

This part really got to me:

Tail docking involves the removal of all or part of the tail using cutting or crushing instruments. Muscles, tendons, 4 to 7 pairs of nerves and sometimes bone or cartilage are severed. The initial pain from the direct injury to the nervous system would be intense and at a level that would not be permitted to be inflicted on humans. The subsequent tissue injury and inflammation, especially if the tail is left to heal as an open would will produce the algogenic substances (Pain killing), the 'sensitising soup' and the 'dorsal horn wind up' required for peripheral and central sensitisation and the development of ongoing pathological pain.


Puppies are usually subjected to this pain and trauma at 2 to 5 days of age when the level of pain would be much greater than an adult would experience because the efferent stimuli reaching the dorsal horn from a greater density of sensitised cutaneous nociceptors will exceed that of the adult and the strength and frequency of painful stimuli reaching the brain will be greater because inhibitory pain pathways will not be developed.


The whimpering and the 'escape response' (continual movements) exhibited by most puppies following tail docking, are evidence that they are feeling substantial pain. Animals tend to be more stoic than humans due to an inherent preservation instinct. Because some puppies do not show signs of intense suffering it does not mean that the pain inflicted on them has not registered in their central nervous system. Cosmetic tail docking is most often performed without any anesthesia or analgesia and only manual restraint is used.

I would kill to get a Yorkie with a tail....I LOVE IT! :D

This does not effect Yorkie's but you would have to include ear docking (I think that is the term), declawing a cat as well. I am not in favor of either of these but I was talking to a friend from the south the other day that said alot of dogs with floppy ears got more ear infections than docked ears because of the hot and humid conditions. I thought that was interesting and food for thought. Another point is dew claws on a dog that easily can be ripped so it does seem kinder to do this when it is still a few days old than surgery down the road.

I will tell you that most of my dogs are probably from backyard breeders and they did a lousy job with their tails or lack of tail would be a better description. I only have one from a show breeder that has a very nice tail the rest are just stubbs. :eek:

It would not be a choice I would make and if I was buying a puppy I would ask to leave it's tails on. But the chance of me buying a puppy are nill.

Interesting topic.

Tail Docking
 

I'm new here and haven't officially introduced my little one but this is one thread I have to reply to. My precious baby was given to me by a coworker that found her lost and sick wondering the streets. She was 4 months old and even though my coworker posted Found signs all over her neighborhood no one ever claimed her. We didn't find this strange considering that she was so unhealthy that she looked like a mutt :) Well she is healthy now but apart from her floppy ears she also has a long tail. My vet warned me that if I was going to Dock it I would have to do it immediatly because she was already 4 months old. My first question to him was "is it cosmetic or for health reasons"? After finding out it was simply cosmetics my husband and I decided that we were not going to do it. Besides would I like it if my parents would have cut some part of me off just because they did not like the way I looked? I understand that there are people that have show dogs and there are others that simply like the tail docked. I respect that, but I don't like the idea. I love the fact that when my little one gets happy its so easy to see that happiness by the movement of her tail. In the mornings when she gets up (she's our alarm clock ;) ) that long tail of hers starts wacking the headboard so loud from her exitement that we just have to get up. She has been known to hit us with hit also. Not on purpose but she gets so exited that her tail just goes crazy. The tail is also great to locate her when she is catching bugs in the garden. Those moments are so special that I'm glad I did not take her little tail off.

That is a great story. I would have done the same thing. Australia is making it illegal to dock tails unless it is for the animal's well being (i.e. the tail is injured) or if it is a working dog where the tail could pose some risk of injury. The UK has a huge anti-docking contingent now. The US has been slower to take up this discussion, but I am sure we will see a lot more undocked tails in the future! I am looking forward to it.

Can, I ask you a personal question...When you were looking for yorkies, did you ask the breeder did she dock the tails? DId you look for yorkies that tails were still attached, or for a breeder who just had her litter so you could have a say in the docking of your yorkies tail. In dog's where the breed standard calls for docked tails, it's not Cosmetic.

PETA isn't a great representer of anything, but fur. Even, that is questionable.

To tell you the truth, tail docking was not on my radar screen at the time I got Edie (5 years ago). I admit that I did not do all the research I should have done before I got Edie---but I did a lot after I got her. Fortunately, we were lucky, she is healthy, and we did a lot of things right without even knowing it. I would have done it differently now. by doing all the research beforehand.

I have to disagree with you...the breed standard is based on cosmetics.... So the tail docking is a breed standard AND it is cosmetic. The Australian Kennel Club is now allowing undocked tails in competitions, and many undocked dogs are WINNING in the UK and AUS.

The British Veterinary Association, the British Small Animal Veterinary Association, the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA) and the RCVS are all opposed to the docking of puppies’ tails. Veterinary bodies and welfare organisations such as Dogs Trust believe that puppies are caused unnecessary pain as a result of docking and are deprived of a vital form of canine expression.

Tail docking began hundreds of years ago when people had a very different attitude to dogs and ’animal welfare’ was unheard of. Docking is thought to have been (mostly mistakenly) used for the following reasons; to increase a dog’s speed, prevention of damage in dog fights, prevention of back injury, rabies prevention and even tax evasion!
These days, the main reasons given for keeping docking are:

To avoid tail damage
Reasons of hygiene
To maintain breed standards

To maintain breed standards? This is docking for cosmetic reasons and that is just not good enough! The Kennel Club (in the UK) changed the breed standards so that previously docked breeds could now be shown with tails, so there’s really no excuse. The pain and disadvantages associated with docking cannot be allowed just so that a dog will look a certain way. Dogs are born with tails for a reason – if they didn’t need them, evolution would have made them smaller or got rid of them altogether by now!

Check this out...
http://www.anti-dockingalliance.co.uk/

I think this is a very cute yorkie--tail and all!

Actually, you left out the none cosmetic reasons for tail docking :eek: , Hygiene, and avoising tail damage.

oh--glad you mentioned that....I think most docking is done for cosmetics, but there are 2 other "excuses"...to avoid tail damage and for hygiene reasons....Here are the arguements against those reasons. I didn't write all of this, but it makes sense to me....


Is avoiding tail damage a good reason for docking?? Any dog can damage their tail but not all dogs are docked. Why are some ‘working’ dogs docked and not others? Why aren’t any of the Retrievers or Setters docked? They’ve got waggier tails than most breeds I know. Why not the hounds? They were bred to hunt over all sorts of terrain, and yet they’re allowed to keep their tails. It doesn’t make much sense to me.

The BSAVA states that they do not believe there is any scientific evidence to show that undocked working dogs damage their tails any more than undocked non-working dogs and therefore see no justification for an exemption for working dogs. Surely this says it all?

Are Reasons of hygiene a reason to dock tails? Call me crazy but isn’t it more humane (though less convenient and time consuming obviously!) to wash or clip the hair away from a dog’s bottom than to chop off his tail? If a dog is regularly groomed, healthy and eating good quality food then there shouldn’t be a lot of muck around his bottom anyway.

The RCVS says that faecal soiling is not a disease or injury and so cannot be a justifiable reason for docking a dog. I agree.

So, since you believe it is cosmetic, you will be out there protesting also...I think if you feel strongly about this and have a lot of answers, you should do something about it.

Great discussion!!!! I think if we make the point of docking being cruel, then we also have to throw dew claws and ear cropping in the mix also. I would think ear cropping would be the worst! Glad I didn't need anything chopping or removed when I was born. :eek:
Yorkies used to hunt in places that could be a hazzard to them having a tail. However, I think a long coat would have also been a hinderance. Don't know how they escaped getting short cuts and that being the breed standard. :confused:

tails
 

I think everyone here can agree to disagree. I will continue to dock tails until it is banned.
We circumsize baby boys and pierce baby girls ears..what is the difference?

PETA do more harm to animals then help them..it is a proven fact.

tails
 

You can show a Yorkie with a tail in AKC shows. Itis not forbidden..you won't win, but you won't be thrown out either.

LOL good point if you want to throw good money away why not throw it in showing a dog that will never finish. NOT!

I too agree until they ban docking and change the AKC standard I will continue to dock tails.

I agree. If we have a litter of puppies they will have their tails done. But I do think the longer tails are cute too. and Im glad that they do it at an early age. it would be more painfull when the tail is bigger.We use to breed boxers and we always had their tails docked.

I totally agree with you Pat. I was just trying to make a point that dew claws, ear cropping and anything else that I can't think of should also be considered too. Would those who want docking to be banned also want these things banned? I think that docking would be the least painful.

I have a Yorkie with an undocked tail. When the litter was brought to me to dock she was 2 ounces and I said "take her to the vet and have him do it" He refused for the same reason I did,,too small. I have Biewers imported from Germany who are undocked. Dewclaws are intact-that is not good as they get caught in stuff. I have a standard color Yorkie whose tail was docked so short that when she has a BM the stool hangs in the hair. It is terrible. I have Remi, an AKC parti male-docked short--don't like it! AND I have a wonderful, beautiful litter of what I jokingly call Biewtis (Biewer/parti) whose tails are intact..My little standard color with the tail looks so funny when she is relaxed, the distal 1/3 of her tail hangs down. When she is excited it waves just like the shorter ones do.
If I dock a tail, I like to dock it long-at least try to judge the adult length. Supposedly, ONE of the reasons for docking the tail was to reduce the chance that a varmint might grab it. Also, it needed to be long enough to be
grabbed with the hand and pull out the dog if it got stuck. So,I try to figure how long it might be as an adult and I use the width on my palm as a sort of gauge. Does that make any sense??

I have one with an undocked tail. Hygiene is no more of a problem than one with a docked tail...they lift the tail out of the way. It is more important to keep the hair trimmed around the rectum. That is were the poo gets stuck.
I don't see why people question this about yorkies. When it comes to hygiene, why would it be any different for yorkies than any other breed? My sister has a Golden Retriever with a long, full tail. No problem with hygiene there either.

I disagree. The "breed standard" for the yorkshire terrier is almost entirely "cosmetic". There is no functional reason to dock a tail. It is purely for outward appearance and aesthetics at this point. The entire standard speaks almost exclusively about outward appearance and conformation. There is nothing more cosmetic than that in my opinion.

Our countyr needs to catch up and ban this barbaric and cruel practice. Talk about breeding tiny females being cruel....it is so much more cruel in my opinion to dock a 3 day out infant's tail.

Talk about trauma. I wonder how many babies have died as a result of this? Whispersmom told the story of the vet who refused to do it to a tiny baby. We just had two little ones on here die after docking tails and it may not have been what caused them to perish, but we don't know for sure.

I think all breeders need to think long and hard about this practice especially if they are only producing pets and not show dogs.

If anyone does not like the Yorkshire Terrier as it is currently bred according to the breed standard.....then why not purchase another breed. NO ONE is forcing anyone to accept tail docking. Doesn't matter if it's cosmetic or not.....it is the standard as written today. History tells us the tail was important to the Yorkshire Terrier.....they were bred to "go to ground" grabbing a tail to withdraw the dog from the hole/tunnel was the only way to retrieve them.....so the tail was docked in order to not damage a long tail by pulling......it may sound cruel.....but that's the way it is. The Yorkie still today maintains those qualities of going to ground....they are still very much varmiant killers....they still have an independent nature. These are the qualities which endear them to us.....this also includes a docked tail. If one doesn't like that.....GET ANOTHER BREED.....no one is forcing anyone to own a docked Yorkie. JMHO

I will always dock tails....as long as the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America maintains the docking requirement in the standard. And anyone calling me to demand or even to ask for an undocked Yorkie will not get one of my dogs....period. Docking a tail is just that.....docking.....the tail at 3 or 4 days is cartiledge not bone. I've never seen any bad effects from the proper docking of a puppy tail. All of my pups just go back to nursing mamma with no ill affects. Now I do have a Yorkie with an undocked tail....she was way too tiny at even a week old to dock....so we just left it.....yes she is cute.
d

been on here reading all this and saying nothing, but now im going to, everyone must know that the yorkshire terrier comes from the uk were tail docking is now forbidden and rightly so, yes the reason they docked yorkie tails was because they were pulled from holes by there tails when they were working dogs, but as they arnt anymore there is no reason to dock the tail is there? yes my rosie digs holes but i wouldnt pull her by here tail and if i saw anyone doing it to a dog id have plenty to say.
i agree ear docking (i never new happened) and dew clawing should also be banned, id be most pissed if someone did it to me.
heres a pic of my rosie with her tail on show.


http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/6...500x3759eb.jpg

Funny...I was just thinking the same thing!! And if anyone has ever had a full grown dog get their dew-claws caught in something, and ripped off their legs, they'd understand why it is important to remove them!! Ear cropping is a no-no (JMO). I will continue to crop their tails until someone convinces me that it is harmful to them.

I do have a male thats tail is so sort, you don't even think he has a tail. My fault tho. I didn't tell the vet how long I wanted it cut. He does get some days of "The Poopy-Butt Syndrome", but a little soap and water does the trick. And when he wags his tail, it looks like he's wagging his little tush!!

Suz

Here are some random pics of my girls, here in Holland they have made it illegal to dock tails in 2000 - in Belgium the same law will go in 1st Jan. 2006

Platinum Yorkies--Your tone is very confrontational, sarcastic, and somewhat mean. :( I am bringing up a valid point, and from what I have found, most veterniarians agree with me. I am more apt to agree with vets than breeders. I will continue to bring up these issues and provide information as I find it. If you are offended by this, at least please keep your comments constructive.