I KNOW! It makes me SO mad everytime I look at an infant girl and her ears are pierced! Where was her say so in the matter? Just because mommy and daddy thought it would look cute she had to suffer!

Okay...off topic and off my soap box now!

I'm with you PlatinumYorkie. Humans have been adorning themselves for centuries with tattoos, piercings, and circumcision, for religious and hygene reasons.
If done correctly at the right time tale docking is maybe not entirely painless but safe, and I prefer the look. I don't see where docking has affected the personality of my dogs. My horses are all branded at 6 months too and they seem okay. The PETA people are all about publicity first and I don't bow to that kind of pressure. No thanks.

what's going on in the rest of the world???

The following countries have already banned docking, ear cropping etc. and appropriate countries have signed up to the Council of Europe's Convention for the Welfare of Pet Animals: AUSTRALIA - 2004
AUSTRIA - 2005
BELGIUM -2006
CYPRUS - 1991
DENMARK - 1991 DENMARK - 2005 DENMARK - Docked dogs can no longer be shown
ESTONIA - 2001
FINLAND - 1996 FINLAND has banned all dogs with docked tails or cropped ears from competing in dog shows, as they were concerned that exhibitors may try to bend the rules by exporting their stock to countries where docking is still allowed, and then re-importing them to show. This closes the loophole in a country which has benned docking and cropping.
GERMANY signed 1989 and ratified 1998 Latest from Germany In accordance with the "Tierschutz-Hundeverordnung" (animal protection dog regulations) from 1st May 2002 the following dogs will be banned from participating at dog shows both at home and abroad:
1. Ears cropped after 01.01.1987
2. Tails cropped after 01.06.87 (exception: dogs used for hunting in accordance with German law for the protection of animals)
3. The ban is not enforced in exceptional cases if a medical indication is known, the corresponding certification must be enclosed together with the entry.
ICELAND - 2001
ISRAEL (6/01) Legislation under the "Cruelty to Animals (Animal Protection) Law" has recently amended by the addition of a ban on the performance of surgical procedures in animal tissue "for cosmetic purposes". The ban includes the docking of tails or cutting of ears in dogs. http://www.israelembassy.org.uk/web/pages/newlegis.htm
LUXEMBOURG - 1991
NETHERLANDS - 2000
NORWAY - 1987
SWEDEN 1988 and ratified 1992
SWITZERLAND banned docking in 1997 and currently only docked dogs over 5 months old can be imported into Switzerland.
SOUTH AFRICA - from 2007 Vets will not be permitted to dock
VIRGIN ISLANDS 6/5/2005 - The V.I. Senate overrode the veto of the Senate's version of the legislation yesterday. This means that docking ears and tails is considered first-degree animal abuse. Because this was a veto override, it automatically becomes law.
TURIN & ROME (plus compulsory dog walking)

Ya! Where is PETA when the babies get whacked on, too? :D

So it looks like you are all saying that since people mutilate babies, it is also OK to mutilate dogs. I do not understand that logic.

Well the biggest reason is we do not know at 3 or 4 days if a dog is a pet or not.....they are virtually all the SAME. <G> For those of us who show our animals the "dirty deed" must be done at a very early age...not everyone is breeding just to produce "pets".....some breeders are trying very hard to make a better Yorkie...a breeder needs to put the dog in the show ring in order to have a accessment of the direction of her breeding program. So bottom line is not every dog born is destined to be a pet nor is every dog destined to become a show dog.....but there is no way to tell at such an early age....
d

Chloe came docked and she was sort of a unplanned purchase and i just fell in love with her so I had no say in that tail docking.
I do agree that I also like the "look" but thats because it is what i am used to (and the rest of society).

(please no one judge me)I bred my boxer in 2004 and had the tails docked of the puppies at 2 days of age like you are supposed to. I was also told to do it at this age because they dont feel it. :mad: BULL!!!! :mad: I was down the hall and could hear thier blood curdling screams :( . They definelty felt pain. It was only for a second but still horrible. I felt so bad for them. I havent bred since but if I did I know I would never do that again. Once you hear those screams :( ...

Whole Dog Journal
 

This is the article from "The Whole Dog Journal" Unfortunetly the pictures did not carry over for some of the examples they give. But please understand this is not just PETA trying to get press. Many people are starting to think about this in the US. Obviously in many parts of the world they have already decided animals should not have these things done unless it is medical.

Part 1
To Crop and Dock? Or Not?
Some canine physical therapists say that dogs suffer from amputations.

By Shannon Wilkinson


Cosmetic surgery for dogs, including docking tails and cropping ears, is increasingly controversial. Even the usually conservative American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) has stated that the procedures are “not medically indicated nor of benefit to the patient. These procedures cause pain and distress, and, as with all surgical procedures, are accompanied by inherent risks of anesthesia, blood loss, and infection.”

Tail docking and other amputations have an undeniable affect on dogs. Notice how the dog at left doesn’t sit in a relaxed fashion, but crouches in such a way as to keep her butt – and the end of her amputated tail – from coming into contact with the ground. Her back and hindquarter muscles are chronically tense. The dog with the full tail is much more relaxed.

It is estimated that more than 130,000 puppies in the United States undergo these procedures each year, procedures that have been illegal in other countries for years. In fact, England has banned ear cropping for more than 100 years. Yet the history of removing parts of tails and ears dates back hundreds of years. The historic reasons for the amputations are often attributed to attempts at preventing injury in fighting or hunting dogs, reducing taxes based on a dog’s tail length, or even preventing rabies.

Despite the arguably ill-founded history of the practices, they have evolved over the years and become part of many breed standards, particularly in the United States. The American Kennel Club supports these practices, stating its position that, “The American Kennel Club recognizes that ear cropping, tail docking, and dewclaw removal, as described in certain breed standards, are acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character and/or enhancing good health. Appropriate veterinary care should be provided.”

Cropping and docking are so prevalent, in fact, that dogs of some breeds are difficult to recognize and identify when they are intact. Imagine a Doberman Pinscher or Boxer with floppy ears and a long tail. Because of aesthetics, these breeds and others routinely lose body parts so that they’ll look like what we expect them to look like.

Most arguments against docking and cropping focus on the pain endured by the puppy during and after the procedure, as well as the simple fact that amputations are cosmetic in nature and therefore unnecessary. However, there are additional issues and potential problems that should be considered before removing dog parts for the sake of looks.

The procedures
About 70 different breeds are subject to tail docking. Puppies usually undergo tail amputation when they are between two and five days of age. The popular belief is that puppies have immature neurological systems and therefore don’t feel the pain at that age. The tails are removed without anesthesia or pain medication by being clamped and then cut off at the prescribed length. Alternatively, a special rubber band may be put around the tail to cut off its blood supply, which eventually kills all of the tissue below the rubber band. The end of the tail will then fall off after several days.

Various breed standards call for tails to be docked at varying lengths. In some breeds, the standard calls for a tail of a specific length; in others, a range is suggested, or the ideal tail is described as being in balance with the dog’s body. In some breeds, an uncropped tail is accepted; in others it is “severely penalized” by judges.

Dewclaw removal is generally done at about the same age as tail docking – again, usually without benefit of anesthesia or pain medication. In some breeds, the standards require that the dewclaws are removed; in other breeds they are tolerated by judges. (Curiously, dogs of at least one breed, the Briard, are disqualified by conformation judges if they do not have the breed’s characteristic double-dewclaws on the rear legs.)

Dewclaws are not just “claws,” but actually a fifth toe. Not all breeds have them, and some breeds have them on just their front paws. On the back paws, dewclaws are vestigial – an evolutionary remnant of ancestors of the dog who had (and used) five toes. These dewclaws have no muscular control; some do not even contain bony tissue or ligaments.

On the front paws, in contrast, some dogs have dewclaws that are capable of muscular control. Unlike the loose and floppy rear dewclaws, the forepaw’s first toe contains bones, muscles, and nerves. Removal of these digits requires (sometimes difficult) surgery by a vet.

Ear cropping is done under anesthesia when pups are older, usually between 9 and 14 weeks of age. Often, postsurgical pain medication isn’t used. Depending on the desired appearance of the cropped ear and the shape of the natural ear, as much as half of the floppy part may be surgically removed. Afterward, the ears are splinted and taped into an erect position for weeks to months, so they will eventually stand on their own.

Pain factor
The World Small Animal Veterinary Association cites the possible formation of painful scar tissue, or neuromas, as one reason that tail docking should be made illegal, except for professionally diagnosed therapeutic reasons.

Laurie Edge-Hughes, a physical therapist and instructor in canine rehab-ilitation, feels that cropping and docking is unnecessary and potentially harmful. She has a Bachelor of Science degree in Physical Therapy, is certified in canine rehabilitation therapy, and has certification from the Acupuncture Foundation of Canada Institute. In her practice at The Canine Fitness Centre in Calgary, she regularly works with dogs who suffer from hypersensitivity and other problems potentially related to their amputated tails, and often theorizes that the problems are related to this scar tissue.

“The contraction or shrinking of the scar may effect a pull on the nerves and hence the dura that surrounds the spinal cord and brain,” she says. The dura is a tough membrane, part of the meninges, which encases and protects the brain and spinal cord.

Edge-Hughes once worked with a Rottweiler who routinely chewed at her stump of a tail. The owners were concerned about the cause of the obsessive behavior and worried that she would hurt herself. When Edge-Hughes sees repeated licking or chewing, or a sudden attacking of a body part, she first investigates neurological pain as a potential source of the problem. This pain can be compared to the pins-and-needles feeling when your hand or foot “falls asleep.”

Edge-Hughes taught the Rottweiler’s owners to apply traction to the tail, through gentle pulling, to stretch out the dura. Theoretically, this process could alleviate any compression caused by scar tissue, thereby eliminating the irritation or pain; in actual fact, the traction stopped the dog’s self-destructive behavior.

In addition to the pain related to the actual amputation and resulting scar tissue, there’s a real possibility that dogs experience phantom pain – a phenomenon well-documented with humans who have lost a body part.

Standards for some breeds, such as the Rottweiler, call for extremely close-cropped tails, with just one or two tail (caudal) vertebrae remaining.

“I work with so many dogs that have significant behavioral changes after TTouch on their missing parts,” says Debby Potts, Tellington TTouch Instructor and co-owner of The Integrated Animal, located in Portland, Oregon. “I can only imagine that they’re experiencing some kind of phantom pain or discomfort. And this can cause seemingly unrelated problems, including behavioral issues.”

Animals hold tension like people do, says Potts. “If you have a stiff neck or pain in a part of your body, does it make you cranky?” Animals are no different from us, she says. In her work on thousands of animals over many years, Potts has found that while lots of dogs may have tension patterns, you’re more likely to see them in dogs who have been docked or cropped.

For example, a Giant Schnauzer was brought to Potts because she was constantly and obsessively whining. Her owners, a husband and wife, could neither find the cause of the problem nor stop the whining. It had become so troublesome that the husband insisted that the dog be re-homed. When Potts started to work on the dog, she found a significant amount of tension around the dog’s cropped ears.

After one session, which included a significant amount of physical work on the head and ears, the Schnauzer’s ears actually appeared longer (due to their unusually relaxed state) – so much so that a person very familiar with the dog didn’t recognize her immediately after the session. More importantly, the whining stopped. Potts suspects that the dog was having the equivalent of tension headaches from all of the tightness around her ears. “That day I think I saved a dog and a marriage, too,” laughs Potts.

Whole Dog Journal Part 2
 

Tails improve balance
Walk along a curb or balance beam with your arms crossed in front of you. Now do it with your arms free at your sides and using them for balance. Wasn’t that easier? Dogs use their tails in much the same way, to provide balance and stability when moving over difficult or rough terrain.

When dogs don’t have tails to provide a counterbalance and rudder for movement, something has to give.

“If you take away the ability to shift weight or compensate for balance displacement by use of the tail mechanism, then the forces that would otherwise be absorbed or counteracted through the tail need to be shifted elsewhere,” says Edge-Hughes. She speculates that the stress or pressure could then fall on the cruciate ligament or patella, hip, or hock joints, or even travel up the chain into the sacroiliac joints or spine, potentially causing or contributing to seemingly unrelated orthopedic injuries.

Cruciate disease and other orthopedic problems can have many contributing factors, and can occur in dogs both with tails and without tails. Yet, for dogs, who evolved to have tails, having them removed may add another cause of injury.

Edge-Hughes is also concerned about docked dogs who are unable to use tail wagging (with a tail of normal length and without scar tissue) to stretch and flex the dura, keeping it pliable. This could be a particular problem when a dog has a slow, progressive disc lesion, such as a bulging disc, which slowly compresses the dura and spinal cord over time. “The dura might become inflamed more easily if it is not as pliable. This may lead to a faster onset of neurological signs and symptoms that accompany disc lesions,” she explains.

Veterinarian Robert Wansborough, in a paper published in 1996 in the Australian Veterinary Journal, describes how the tail is interconnected with the physiological structure of the entire hind end of the dog. He speculates that removing the tail may change the muscle tone and contribute to perineal hernias and incontinence.

Dewclaws may contribute to improved balance, too
Dewclaws are another frequently amputated dog part that are often thought to be useless, but in fact, the front dewclaws do have a purpose says Chris Zink, DVM, PhD. “The function of front dewclaws is to prevent torque on the leg,” she says. “There are five tendons attaching the dewclaw to five muscle bundles, supporting this functionality. When a dog is running, the dewclaw comes into contact with the ground. If the dog needs to turn, the dewclaw digs into the ground to support the lower leg and prevent torque.”

“The rear dewclaws are vestigial in most breeds; that is not true for the front dewclaws, which should be more correctly called digits or thumbs,” says Dr. Zink. She works exclusively with performance dogs and has found that if a dog doesn’t have dewclaws, the leg will twist when turning, which applies significant pressure on the leg, to the toes, carpus, elbow, and shoulders. The repeated twisting and pressure can ultimately cause chronic painful conditions, especially carpal arthritis. “Of the over 30 dogs I have seen with carpal arthritis, only one has had dewclaws. All the others had them removed,” says Dr. Zink.

Out of balance
Beyond the physical balance and movement aids provided by tails and dewclaws, removing these parts, and ears too, may cause a different type of imbalance. The removal of parts as a result of docking and cropping may interfere with well-being and health from a Chinese medicine perspective. Scars or the absence of body parts that are normally part of a meridian or specific acupuncture points may adversely affect the organ systems associated with the meridian or energy channel.

A beautiful sight: an athletic dog with the tail, toes, and ears that he was born with, moving swiftly, comfortably, and in perfect balance.

An acupuncture map of the ear will show points that correspond with the entire body. In fact, there are over 200 acupuncture points on the ear – it is often described as “the meeting place of all the channels of the body.” In addition, the ear is part of the kidney meridian. When a dog’s ear is partially amputated, as with cropping, these points are removed, and scar tissue is created on the new edge of the ear. The removal of dewclaws creates a scar that may affect the Large Intestine meridian, while the Governing Vessel meridian ends on the tail.


Abbreviated communication
Dogs use both their tails and ears extensively for communication, with each other and with humans. Norwegian trainer Turid Rugaas describes many different positions for tails and ears in her work on “calming signals” of the dog, and how dogs use these parts to communicate.


Think for a moment about all of the positions floppy ears can take. The ears can be forward and the base held upright, or they can be soft and low against the head, even pinned back, tight to the head. Each subtly different position communicates something different, from aggression to fear, contentment to appeasement.


The tail, too, acts as a key communication device for dogs. Different types of tail wagging and carriage may indicate happiness, stress, anxiety, fear, or other emotions. Dogs without tails are limited in this type of communication, and have to rely on other signals, which may be more difficult for humans and other dogs to interpret.


With all of the probable and possible problems associated with cropping and docking, how important is it to keep certain breeds of dogs looking a particular way?

Germany? You've got to be kidding. I don't buy it. That is where Dobs and Rots originated...find some breeders there...who have probably been breeding longer than any of us...and show me ONE that doesn't dock those tails! :rolleyes:

Or crop their ears?

Thanks, Shanatink, for that frank answer. Hey, look, my Yorkie has a docked tail, but knowing what I know NOW, I cannot advocate it, and I would do everything possible to get an undocked Yorkie in order to NOT support this procedure.

The world changes. There were a lot of things that were accepted and done for centuries before people gained and awareness and changed things for the better. Think about a world in which our thinking did not shift as our knowlege grew: women could not vote and blacks would still be slaves, and lobotomies would continue to be the "cure" for mental illness. Think about it.

First off, I don't recall ever saying that I think either one is OK. Further more, if you want to get technical, what makes it right to whack their little guys to get them neutered but not a tail? Is it the difference in body part or is it because it's what someone views as humane?

I can guarantee you that those puppies feel pain. My stepdad's dog had a litter of puppies. He went to get their tails docked because the vet said that the puppies couldn't feel it. Well, as he sat in the waiting room, he heard the most horrendous screams coming from those poor, day old puppies.

My opinion on the situation is that it doesn't need to be done. I guess that if you want to show your dog, then you should probably do it, but otherwise, I don't see the point. My Yorkies came with tails docked, but if it was my choice, they would have long, beautiful, wagging tails. I do have to admit that their little stubs are kind of cute, but I wish that they didn't have to go through that horrible pain!

BAMA FAN---oh---there is a big difference between spay/neuter and tail docking. I'll let you discuss that with your vet if you wish. Too long to go into here. ;)

more cute photos---don't you think?

Oh im sure they do feel it. I have been with many puppies at the vets and you can hear them scream out.

Now, if their tails curled up and layed across their backs like a maltese's does, then I'd love to have long tails but they just look like regular tails to me.

First off, cute pics, adorable pooch.
Secondly, I don't really care to get into the difference between the two either, not because it's too long, but because it's a moral debate nobody wants to be involved in. A body part is a body part, no matter how you look at it, it's getting whacked. The only difference is what's being accomplished by the whacking and the manner in which it is done. And yeah, we are talking about dogs verses humans, what's acceptable for one is not always acceptable for the other.

A person that is born blind or deaf...and have never had the gift of sight or sound doesn't miss it. They grow up learning to adjust to their surroundings...same as a dog. You dock their tails they don't miss them nor are they clumsy without them.

No the difference is this country is putting down 4 - 10 MILLION ANIMALS A YEAR DUE TO PET OVER POPULATION! :mad: Many of these animals are not being put down humanely either! It is a dirty secret in this country and I think there is a big difference in docing a dogs tail and neutering. This issue is not just about Yorkie's but our companion animals.

OK, so then the issue is not the pain the dogs go through, but what is achieved by putting them through that pain? So if their was a valid reason, rather than for looks, to have tails docked, it would be OK, even if it hurts them. Just want to make it clear... :confused:

I just wanted to share what The Whole Dog Journal had to say. Each person will have to make up their own minds.

P.S. I would have to disagree on a human being born deaf. My grandmother and grandfather were born deaf. They made a good life for themselves but it was very difficult for then. But that is another story.

BamaFan,
of course the goal of the procedure must be taken into account. What we are saying is, it is senseless to go through the pain of docking because of an cosmetic ideal. It is worth going through a surgical spay/neuter in order to extend life, give better quality of life, and prevent unwanted puppies that would contribute to dog overpopulation.

The benefits of spay/neuter are HUGE. I have found no evidence of benefits for tail docking.

This is apples and oranges all over the place......

Oh---Living dust mops---I PMd you.

I am not trying to argue with you when it comes to the overpopulation problem or the fact that spay/neuter is the way to control it, I totally agree, don't get me wrong. I personally think Yorkies are gorgeous with or without the tails...who could argue with that. However, if you are trying to prevent "unwanted" dogs, and a docked tail is still standard...right or wrong as it may be...and people want a dog that meets standards...would leaving the tail therefor make the puppy less desireable? (By many, not all...not condoning or condeming, just creating a theory...)
Anyway...this is getting old...I don't disagree with the fact that it hurts for no reason. I was actually going to pay the extra to have our pups' tails numbed, but I did not end up making the trip with them...that was my co-breeder/father :(

Well, I'm still going to have my pups tails docked when they are born. Have a good evening!

TXshopper...same here, both accounts...good night to all. ;)

When I had my pups tails docked....they screamed.....I'm really serious.....they screamed and cried ALL night long and into the next day....I had to bring them to the vet the next day for some meds stuff on their tails and my vet said that it is not uncommon for a reaction like that and they are thinking about not doing the tail docking anymore. The techs and the vets all agreed that it is a really painful thing to go through to accomplish just a look....I definitely won't do it again...(JMO)

A correct tailset would have a full tail hang over the back NOT CURL like a Maltese or Shih Tzu. All 6 of my Biewers have full tails that gracefully hang over the back. I tried to attached a few pics but they were too large. This one worked. This is my Haromny at 12 wks. You can see how her tail hangs over her back. She was playing and swishing it when I took the picture but you get the idea.

I agree that Yorkies look better with tails docked. But then I've seen them docked too short which does not look nice. I prefer a longer docked tail on my Yorkies.

So, is the point of this thread is to make people aware. Try to make people not dock tails, or change people minds. If this thread was to gather opinions about docking, and share your...then point taken.

This is obviously a very tough and touchy subject and with all rights to be. The docking of any dogs tail/ears etc all have their 'historical' reasoning. Meaning, although most of the dogs who undergo these procedures don't typically do the tasks which they were originally bred to do in the past and therefore physically don't need the surgery but since the 'standard' does call for such physical alterations many/most breeders/owners have the docking done. The decision to dock ones pups tail can fall under several reasonings. One of which is that IMO the majority of buyers who are looking for yorkie pups/adults will be looking for the standard and will probably be 'turned off' by the natural tail, simply bc they know nothing more than the picturesque photos of what the breed is proclaimed as 'standard'. IMO those breeders who dock their pups tails for this reason, are not wrong, inhumane or cruel. Another reasoning is bc some breeders show their dogs and breed soley with the intent of selling show worthy animals and know that in order to be successful and even to compete, their dogs must reach the standard. (even though the standards are being changed elsewhere the standard here in the us is still currently the same.. please correct me if I am wrong.. I'm not here to start any fights or point fingers :)) As far as whether or not the pups feel pain when the docking takes place.. the answer is made clear when their tails are snipped and when their dew claws are wrenched out. Defying the fact that they feel pain is sheer insanity. If the dog were not in pain it would not writhe, scream and struggle against the aching. The example was made about an infants ears being pierced, of course it hurts them and often times I feel confused when I see a young infant with holes in her ears bc the risks of infections in such a young and helpless child with such low imunities doesn't seem to be worth their ear rings attractive appearance. But just like the young child with the pierced ears the pups don't appear remember this occurance later in life. If there has been a study done to prove otherwise, such as a life long monitering of the behavioral and emotional differences between a pup with a docked tail and another with tail still remaining, then I'm sure everyone on YT would be very interested in seeing it. I myself don't know whether (if I am lucky enough to one day breed) I will dock my pups tails or not. In conclusion, I truly believe that that decision will be left up to each breeder no matter what their reasoning is until the AKC decides to change the standard and make docking illegal.