Strange thought-declaw dogs

[trin7]

From what I have read, declawing is an amputation of the first knuckle. It is extremely painful and many cats never fully recover. People have to decide before they have cats, what is more important to them. I raised Bengal cats, which are an extremely active breed. They destroyed any climbers we built for them, but better that then our furniture. Declawed cats are defenseless if they escape from their inside home - they don't stand a chance if they encounter a viscous dog. Before declawing, please find a new home for your cat or kitten if you can't handle furniture being scratched. I hope I don't offend anyone but I feel very passionate about this subject.

[LoALAnna]

I'm just curious about the "soft claw" nail tips. Does anyone use these on their yorkies? The reason I'm asking is because my Neo is plagued with allergic "itchies" (he is getting imunotherapy shots) and will scratch until he almost bleeds if I don't keep PJs on him. I thought maybe putting the nail tips on his back claws would help.

[Ellie May]

I wouldn't be surprised if a leg jumped because nerves are involved. It sounds like the older way is being used. The pads don't have to be damaged to that extent, nor does the tip of the finger have to be cut off (it's a bone piece that is cut out if done the better way). If an animal can bite during a surgical procedure, then JMHO the anesthetist and/or the person that chose the anesthesia to be used are not doing things correctly. An animal that is "properly" anesthetized with isoflurane and in the correct anesthetic plane isn't going to be able to bite. They shouldn't react or they are probably too light. And if general isn't being used and just sedation or if just injectable general is being used, I'd run from there so fast with my animals. Honestly, I have never seen an animal start to wake up or be able to bite while under iso unless they were light (in the case of a dental or whatever where it doesn't matter so much for the cleaning). Even with orthopedics, I've never heard of that happening.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by LoALAnna

I'm just curious about the "soft claw" nail tips. Does anyone use these on their yorkies? The reason I'm asking is because my Neo is plagued with allergic "itchies" (he is getting imunotherapy shots) and will scratch until he almost bleeds if I don't keep PJs on him. I thought maybe putting the nail tips on his back claws would help.

Sounds like it might work. Could try it and see.

[DJDB]

My opinion on the subject is that a surgery that is to help the animal in some way is fine. I don't believe that mutilating an animal to "save" your furniture is humane or reasonable in any way and is the epitomy of selfishness. Just as parents know they must sacrifice some things because they have children (sleeping in on weekends, barf on the carpet, etc), a pet owner must realize that having a cat or dog or whatever means that maybe you don't have the nice furniture if you're not willing to take the time and effort to train your "friend". In my opinion, I would rather see someone re-home their cat or dog before mutilating it.

Our Ozzy had his tail docked by the breeder, but we would never have done that on our own. To me, anything done to make a dog or cat "standard" is like having cosmetic surgery done on your child because you think it should look more like the other kids. Kind of ridiculous when you give it some thought!!

[beecee]

Originally Posted by DJDB

My opinion on the subject is that a surgery that is to help the animal in some way is fine. I don't believe that mutilating an animal to "save" your furniture is humane or reasonable in any way and is the epitomy of selfishness. Just as parents know they must sacrifice some things because they have children (sleeping in on weekends, barf on the carpet, etc), a pet owner must realize that having a cat or dog or whatever means that maybe you don't have the nice furniture if you're not willing to take the time and effort to train your "friend". In my opinion, I would rather see someone re-home their cat or dog before mutilating it.

Our Ozzy had his tail docked by the breeder, but we would never have done that on our own. To me, anything done to make a dog or cat "standard" is like having cosmetic surgery done on your child because you think it should look more like the other kids. Kind of ridiculous when you give it some thought!!

That's exactly what I meant to say but didn't put it so eloquently.

I agree with sacrifice part (I have been sacrificing my stuff in my house last couple of weeks with the new puppy but I don't care. I still love him)

[gracielove]

It is an amputation to declaw any animal. It is cruel and senseless. I realize it may be a lot of trauma to trim nails but it can be done. Usually paying $10.00 to a groomer or a vet tech will do the job.
My daughter found an apartment that she really wanted but was told she could only have her cats if they were declawed. I told her not to do it but she took her full grown cat and had it done. The cat's feet are now deformed and painful to walk on. If someone insists on declawing a cat it should be done as a young kitten not an adult. I cannot even imagine the trauma it would be to an adult dog to do such a thing. A vet that would amputate a dogs claws for mere convenience of the owner should lose their license.

Dogs use their claws to help with balance. It would deform the paw to go without the nails. They are there for a reason.

[gracielove]

I have cats and as you can tell by my post above I do not declaw. I do trim my cat's nails. Only the cat that tends to scratch furniture. I started trimming the nails when the cat was a kitten. If someone has difficulty with that they can wrap the cat in a small blanket with only a paw sticking out and then cut the nails. Of course you need someone to help you with the procedure but it is a quick and painless way of trimming the cat's nails. My boy is very good about it but he is used to being handled and trusts me.

All this talk about amputation of animal's body parts makes me wonder if some people should even own an animal.

I don't see a problem with the soft tips being put on an animal's nails but it seems to me if you are going to go through all that trouble you may as well just trim the nails.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by DJDB

My opinion on the subject is that a surgery that is to help the animal in some way is fine. I don't believe that mutilating an animal to "save" your furniture is humane or reasonable in any way and is the epitomy of selfishness. Just as parents know they must sacrifice some things because they have children (sleeping in on weekends, barf on the carpet, etc), a pet owner must realize that having a cat or dog or whatever means that maybe you don't have the nice furniture if you're not willing to take the time and effort to train your "friend". In my opinion, I would rather see someone re-home their cat or dog before mutilating it.
Sad thing is though, many animals are abondoned because of damage they do to property. Those that don't own, and rent a house/apartment are often not at liberty to choose the option of being ok with the property being damaged. Cats are a dime a dozen at our local shelters. They literally have buy one get one free offers all the time in an effort to home them rather than euthanized them.

Our Ozzy had his tail docked by the breeder, but we would never have done that on our own. To me, anything done to make a dog or cat "standard" is like having cosmetic surgery done on your child because you think it should look more like the other kids. Kind of ridiculous when you give it some thought!!

I am so torn on this. I'm currently looking for another puppy. ZoE's tail is docked and I know even as I type it how horrible it sounds, but I'd really like them to match. While I wouldn't choose to dock tails if I bred puppies myself. I know today, I would choose a docked tailed over a full tail if a breeder had both available in a litter (assuming equal health, traits, etc.)

[yorkietalkjilly]

Docking a tail on a Yorkie may be done for cosmetics to some but many breeders do it because they know it is practical. On any Yorkie I have had, they have probably needed it as they are reckless dogs and give no thought as they race under, through and around anything when they are chasing something or playing. Yorkies with tails carry their rather thin tail out and not curled protectively over the back. It is not a substantial tail like a Lab's is to its size - the Yorkie tail is rather frail and carried out back and is subject to catching on things. In the old days when they were under houses and under barn stall sides with rusty nails and splinters, farm equip. etc., they were racing around chasing vermin and would catch their little tails and shred them badly. Now with lawn furniture and equipment and things out back, Yorkies still race under and by things with abandon. You can find things sticking out haphazardly under some antique furniture and I have a few pieces like that - pieces Tibbe can and does get under - sometimes running. I am glad Tibbe doesn't have a tail, dewclaws or long ears to catch on anything and tear. He gives no thought to himself when he starts after a squirrel or a toy or another dog and he will go through, under or around anything to get to it.

[Buster Brown]

I had hammertoes on both my feet which caused me pain and tingling on occasion. On the advice an Orthopedic surgeon I had the surgery to shorten the toes. I now have a toe that completely twists around on itself and more nerve tingling and occasional pain then I ever did before surgery. My surgery was over nine years ago and the area still bothers me. I believe based on my own experience that a declawing surgery performed on an animal would perhaps result in similar issues. I go through life not complaining as well but it still bothers me every day.

[concretegurl]

Here's a few of my thoughts here.

I really appreciate how honest people are being here. It really wasn't about weather you are pro declawing a cat or not.

I hope there wasn't a comment about just have a groomer or vet do it meant for me like I don't take my dog to the groomer or the vet to do it already and it cost $35 actually.

Like debarking it's not mainstream and it's being done.

Dew claws, tails ears should only be done when medically necessary but a vet, with a local in the least; not a breeder with a pair of scissors IMHO.

I prefer docked tails to prevent tail injury. I've seen too many tail injuries so I see the reasoning & beleive in it. But I do like the Biewer fluffy tail and how it looks-yes I feel torn on it personally.

My mini schnauzer has fully hair coated ear canals, I asked her breeder not to crop ears I had no interest in showing her, and at the time only thought it was some inhuman procedure and associated it with dog fighting.

Of course I pluck hers, she has never had an ear infection. My vet has considered we still are giving Scoobers a later ear cropping he get 3-7 infections a year even with minimal hair and a rigorous routine in hygeine, treatments. I'm very torn on it and my vet says it a last resort because she'd never consider it normally but Scoobers ears really are problematic and a rare case. I LOVE how funky floppy his ears are but if it's needed I'll have it done. So far we are dealing with the issue.

So I see where ear cropping is medically necessary at times. I despise the look of cropped ears but am for it now after understanding why.

Scoobers had an emergency dew claw removal. It was by far the most disgusting thing ever I'm blood phobic too (Hemophobia). I grew back hasn't been done since I'm not up for changing bandages again.


Cat declawing:
I'm confused about this whole amputation thing!
I read about it last night (I just had no real understanding or information on it thus no opinion). I have seen them in rescue being listed as indoor only because of it. Actually I have known someone who had it done to their cat and their cat had the back claws which I remember thinking was kind of strange but worked out last night obviously they need their back claws to itch themselves right?

It says it's like removing a fingernail in people but you clip it directly at the bone and sever a ligation. I had no idea about actually removing part if the end of the bone which is the older produre Ellie May is explaining.

I'm still running this all through my own head trying to process how I feel about it.

[concretegurl]

Here's a few of my thoughts here.

I really appreciate how honest people are being here. It really wasn't about weather you are pro declawing a cat or not.

I hope there wasn't a comment about just have a groomer or vet do it meant for me like I don't take my dog to the groomer or the vet to do it already and it cost $35 actually.

Like debarking it's not mainstream and it's being done.

Dew claws, tails ears should only be done when medically necessary but a vet, with a local in the least; not a breeder with a pair of scissors IMHO.

I prefer docked tails to prevent tail injury. I've seen too many tail injuries so I see the reasoning & beleive in it. But I do like the Biewer fluffy tail and how it looks-yes I feel torn on it personally.

My mini schnauzer has fully hair coated ear canals, I asked her breeder not to crop ears I had no interest in showing her, and at the time only thought it was some inhuman procedure and associated it with dog fighting.

Of course I pluck hers, she has never had an ear infection. My vet has considered we still are giving Scoobers a later ear cropping he get 3-7 infections a year even with minimal hair and a rigorous routine in hygeine, treatments. I'm very torn on it and my vet says it a last resort because she'd never consider it normally but Scoobers ears really are problematic and a rare case. I LOVE how funky floppy his ears are but if it's needed I'll have it done. So far we are dealing with the issue.

So I see where ear cropping is medically necessary at times. I despise the look of cropped ears but am for it now after understanding why.

Scoobers had an emergency dew claw removal. It was by far the most disgusting thing ever I'm blood phobic too (Hemophobia). I grew back hasn't been done since I'm not up for changing bandages again.


Cat declawing:
I'm confused about this whole amputation thing!
I read about it last night (I just had no real understanding or information on it thus no opinion). I have seen them in rescue being listed as indoor only because of it. Actually I have known someone who had it done to their cat and their cat had the back claws which I remember thinking was kind of strange but worked out last night obviously they need their back claws to itch themselves right?

It says it's like removing a fingernail in people but you clip it directly at the bone and sever a ligation. I had no idea about actually removing part if the end of the bone which is the older produce Ellie May is explaining.

I'm still running this all through my own head trying to process how I feel about it.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by TeddyGrahams

From an RVT standpoint,
de-clawing is a very bloody surgery and no, cats don't generally handle it very well. What owners don't see is how their legs jump each time their fingers are snapped off, what owners don't see is that even while they are under they wince in pain some even bite. It's reflex, they are heavily sedated however their nerves still detect whats going on. When the cats wake up the majority of the time the glue that holds their pads closed usually comes out and they bleed all over the cages or they bite at their stitches. Generally we have to put the glue back in and it's very painful for them as their paws are really sore. The cats are so confused, yes they have pain medication but that look in their eyes is awful. What did they do to deserve that?

dear god, where do you work????? I would be very against declawing if i worked at your hospital.

I too am a vet tech and have helped with hundreds of declaws. 1) the surgery is not bloody at all if done properly. A tourniquet should be used at the elbow to hold off the vein to prevent the bleeding and slowly let up when the glue has been applied. 2) the legs shouldn't "jump" either if a nerve block is used (and it should be). 3) The cat shouldn't "wince" in pain, bite, or move a muscle during the procedure if the cat is properly anesthetized. They should be under general anesthesia and have pain meds plus a nerve blocker. 4) fingers are not snapped off, nothing should be snapped or clipped off. a surgical blade should be used to remove the nail. 5) Glue is applied to each incision to close the hole. Pads are NOT cut, in fact no part of the skin is removed. When finished, the paw should appear normal as if the nails are still there. Once the glue has dried the paws should be wrapped up to the elbow (and hock/stifle if backs are done). I used to wrap them the same way I would wrap a splint, with 3 different layer and lots of padding on the toes. 6) Yes some cats do wake up and flip out. They can do that with any procedure, some just don't agree with anesthesia or the pain meds used. The right pain med needs to be figured out and the patient should be made comfortable. IV pain meds and a fentanyl patch are best and should be used for at least 2 days after surgery (meaning the cat needs to stay in hosp for a few days). Before the cat goes home, the bandages are removed. If cat freaks out with licking the paws they get a party hat (e-collar) and thin bandages to just act as a preventative.

[Teresa Ford]

Dogs, dew claws, tails and ears, IMO, I hate doing things to animals that are purely for cosmetics, or human convince.
I work actively to get the AKC and Breed Clubs to revise their standards concerning docked ears and tails. I think it is wrong that a full tailed Yorkie can not be shown.
(Yes, if I were breeding Yorkies, I would dock tails. Good breeders want to have dogs as close to standard as possible.) BUT I would encourage pet only owners, to let their Yorkie keep a natural tail. Dew claw removal is for medical reasons, like having baby teeth removed. Gracie has dew claws and has sagged them twice. What a bloody mess, and God love her, the torn dew claw was painful and stayed sore for about 2 weeks.
I am pro spay and neuter too. Some of my friends are on the fence about it because of new research. I may be wrong about it but, still belive the benefits out weigh hormone benefits.
Cats ? IMO Train them and let them keep their claws. It is natural, and I think like their whiskers, they need claws.
PEOPLE alter their bodies too ! So much is cultural, we pierce girl babies ears and routinely circumcise boy babies. People (not are all are teenagers) pierce their body and get tatoos of things they may later regret. We glue on fake nails, color our hair, have breast implants, tummy tucks and wear false eyelashes, change our teeth and and have hair implanted or removed. So it makes perfect sense that some of us want our dogs to look the way we think they should look. Even if it means cutting off their tails and part of their ears. I feel bad about some of our values, so superficial.... and perhaps compleatly selfish too.