Puppy Question

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

How would an owner outdoor train a dog if they didn't let them go outside young? Not everybody thinks pottying on pads in the house is acceptable.

IMO sometimes there is too much of a line drawn between large and small breeds. Both get sick, both get parvo and distemper, both can die from it. So if it's not ok for small breeds to go out young, why is it ok for large breeds (assuming they stopped weaning at the same time and have had the same vaccines - even if the number of vaccines is 0)? Very few people would let a large breed dog go on pads while its shots were being given.

Ry came to me with an unknown vaccine history. We were careful, but we weren't going to stop him from going outside either. He was expected to go potty outside, he was allowed around a dog that I knew the vaccine history of, etc.

I have a friend who trained her golden in the same fashion as some potty train their yorkies. Piddle pads first, then outdoors when he had all his shots. Is that not normal?

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

How would an owner outdoor train a dog if they didn't let them go outside young? Not everybody thinks pottying on pads in the house is acceptable.

IMO sometimes there is too much of a line drawn between large and small breeds. Both get sick, both get parvo and distemper, both can die from it. So if it's not ok for small breeds to go out young, why is it ok for large breeds (assuming they stopped weaning at the same time and have had the same vaccines - even if the number of vaccines is 0)? Very few people would let a large breed dog go on pads while its shots were being given.

Ry came to me with an unknown vaccine history. We were careful, but we weren't going to stop him from going outside either. He was expected to go potty outside, he was allowed around a dog that I knew the vaccine history of, etc.

Totally agree.
In fact, I think Rottweilers are more prone to parvo as a breed.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

How would an owner outdoor train a dog if they didn't let them go outside young? Not everybody thinks pottying on pads in the house is acceptable.

IMO sometimes there is too much of a line drawn between large and small breeds. Both get sick, both get parvo and distemper, both can die from it. So if it's not ok for small breeds to go out young, why is it ok for large breeds (assuming they stopped weaning at the same time and have had the same vaccines - even if the number of vaccines is 0)? Very few people would let a large breed dog go on pads while its shots were being given.

Ry came to me with an unknown vaccine history. We were careful, but we weren't going to stop him from going outside either. He was expected to go potty outside, he was allowed around a dog that I knew the vaccine history of, etc.

I am currently doing both not easy but we are getting there.
I want the option of on very cold days to have the pup go on pads or when we are traveling to dog shows through airports or when I sixteen stories off the ground in a hotel to use a pad.
But for most days I rather her go outside and do her buisness and wreak my grass.
Should add that she is 19 weeks old and we are getting there.

JL

[Britster]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I have a friend who trained her golden in the same fashion as some potty train their yorkies. Piddle pads first, then outdoors when he had all his shots. Is that not normal?

I can honestly say I had NEVER heard of it until joining YT.

And as a family, we've had a lot of dogs. A llhaso apso, a lab, rottweiler, two pit bulls, cockapoo, two golden retrievers, husky, german shepherd, ummm... I am sure there's more, but those were my grandma's, my uncles, my aunts, my dads and my moms dogs of the past 15-20 years.

[Ellie May]

Nope. Not at all normal. It's fine if you want to be extra cautious, but they can get confused, develop a liking for peeing on pads only, forget that blankets aren't pads, then they are being told it's ok to go in the house, etc.
So most people aren't going to do it like that.. Training them that it's ok to go in the house and then suddenly it's not ok won't work for a lot of dogs.

BTW, the vets and vet staff I know (even with small breeds) aren't nearly as careful as many people on YT are. Yes, there is risk to an undervaccinated dog going outside, but in most cases the small risk seems to be worth it.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Nope. Not at all normal. It's fine if you want to be extra cautious, but they can get confused, develop a liking for peeing on pads only, forget that blankets aren't pads, then they are being told it's ok to go in the house, etc.
So most people aren't going to do it like that.. Training them that it's ok to go in the house and then suddenly it's not ok won't work for a lot of dogs.

BTW, the vets and vet staff I know (even with small breeds) aren't nearly as careful as many people on YT are. Yes, there is risk to an undervaccinated dog going outside, but in most cases the small risk seems to be worth it.

I tend to agree

JL

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Nope. Not at all normal. It's fine if you want to be extra cautious, but they can get confused, develop a liking for peeing on pads only, forget that blankets aren't pads, then they are being told it's ok to go in the house, etc.
So most people aren't going to do it like that.. Training them that it's ok to go in the house and then suddenly it's not ok won't work for a lot of dogs.

BTW, the vets and vet staff I know (even with small breeds) aren't nearly as careful as many people on YT are. Yes, there is risk to an undervaccinated dog going outside, but in most cases the small risk seems to be worth it.

I haven't seen a confused pup yet. maybe I'm just lucky. I know Kaji prefers to potty outside, but it's just not an option we have available to us at this time. He's completely reliable on the pads and hasn't mistaken any other material as a pad. Again, maybe I've just been lucky.

[MamaZiggy]

i haven't read all the replies, but my experience with Ziggy:

I got him too young (8 weeks) and was super careful with him. Did take him to potty in my walled in yard at around 14 weeks. tBut now he is back with pee pad because summer is here and I haven't put him on flea meds yet..

I think it depends. My friend and I got our puppies two weeks apart from the same breeder. She took him immediatly everywhere with her and nothing happened to him. I didn't take Ziggy out (he was and is little- from growth chart he should be aroun 3.5-4lbs adult weight), but she (my friend) did force visit me when i got Ziggy, he got stressed and sick... 5000bucks worth of vet bills sick..

I am very over protective, haven't even walked him outside my yard yet and he's 19weeks old, BUT i think each person should follow their instincts with their baby and see if they're big and strong enoung to handle different situations

[southernbelle04]

Thank you all for your input! I am learning so much!

[Ellie May]

ETA: Ellie is allowed to go on pads sometimes when I'm gone and Ry will be allowed to also. I was hoping he'd have a bladder of steel and be able to hold it, but he has urinary issues. However, when possible, I prefer my pups be outside trained and I'm not sure it's great if they think they can go inside. Ellie was crated with newspaper under her with her siblings. Came right home to me and went right to the papers. Didn't take to outside (100%) ao easily and still hasn't. While I know it's impossible to get very young pups to go outside everytime, I do think her being able to go in her crate on papers hasn't helped us any now.

And the only reason I'm going to let Ry use pads (possibly) now is that with his current issues, I can't expect him to hold it. I'm gone for very long periods.

If possible, I like to keep things simple to learn.

Now taking a dog that isn't fully vaccinated to the dog park, or letting them walk around the petstore, or not picking them up in the vet office if they are small is just..asking for trouble. But they can only be protected so much if an owner does want to outdoor train. I guess it is what it is and each person has to decide how much risk they want to take. I'd rather risk parvo and distemper and potty train how I want to (knowing that I don't see a bunch of sick looking dogs around here and I doubt there is anything risky outside my door).

Ry was at two rescues not yet fully vaccinated - around tons of other stray or rehome dogs. Unavoidable and he did fine. In fact, he was going in his crate. They were taking him out to pee. So even vet offices (his rescue is a vet hospital) take pups outside... E has a low-ish distemper titer and she is at a vet's office with me all the time. Never a problem. I think as long as caution is used, that's all we can do. ..because you can carry these diseases in on shoes and such anyway. I don't see owners taking off their shoes, changing, showering, etc. before handling their pup.. Not sure there is a huge difference between that and just letting them go out in the yard.

[Ellie May]

Also ETA: I had a very, um, ridiculous vet tell me to be very careful about who came around E as a puppy and maybe for life because "Yorkies get stressed easily - and they know Yorkies bc they have them". So she was not properly socialized and we were careful about not stressing her. Bad idea. Never again would I listen to such a thing. Now I have an undersocialed, grumpy dog that has fear issues bc she wasn't exposed to enough at a young age. I would have gladly taken the risk of her getting parvo/distemper or geting sick from being "stressed" rather than dealing with the consequences as she got older.

[southernbelle04]

Thanks!!!

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Also ETA: I had a very, um, ridiculous vet tell me to be very careful about who came around E as a puppy and maybe for life because "Yorkies get stressed easily - and they know Yorkies bc they have them". So she was not properly socialized and we were careful about not stressing her. Bad idea. Never again would I listen to such a thing. Now I have an undersocialed, grumpy dog that has fear issues bc she wasn't exposed to enough at a young age. I would have gladly taken the risk of her getting parvo/distemper or geting sick from being "stressed" rather than dealing with the consequences as she got older.

Well looks like your course of life is pretty darn close to mine when it comes to having a first born with issues.

Mine came home to me at 9 months old her first home could not handle her. She was listed for sale in the paper as big and good with kids and not fixed.

I know of two BYBS looking to breed her. I had no clue about her breeder I just know she was in for a boat load of hurt if someone I know got to her first. So home she came.
She big she is anything but good with kids and she well she wore a muzzle for a reason for a while.

Wee girl peed pooed throw up and tried to bite me the first day home and man if I know then what I know now 8 years later and she 9 years old and been on prozac from 7 years of age I have done a lot differnt.
I went out and I learned and learned and applied it to a lot of dogs.

I just finally have a new baby in my house a 19 week olds silkie terrier and man she the best. I got her home a 13 weeks cause I could not get down any sooner to get her. I am blessed my breeder had her butt covered for soical skils. I walked her into puppy class that the trainer took one look at her and told me she was undersoicalized.... the roof stayed on the building but her boss did get it a gentle blast and she did apologize. Next class when we went she was the one playing with the rottie puppy and going catch me if you can when all the others pups stood their looking at the poor rottie with its ears taped down as a starnger... I got my I am sorry.

The owner of the training center was seen me work with a dog she would not come near and another that was worried and turned around and non where mine and in my home just dogs I work with so she knows under soicalized is not my thing.

JL

[AbbyMax]

I have let mine outside in the yard in the past and had puppy play dates with dogs who I know are up to date on their shots. Course, while they are in the yard I watch them non-stop. They are little goats and will eat anything from rabbit poop to rocks. Because mine are so small and I have seen owls and other critters in the area, I have a xpen outside to limit the area I have to chase them in case I see something.

I have had a couple of puppy play dates at my house and yard with friends bringing their pups over. They are a little skiddish for the first five minutes or so and then they are chasing each other all over the place.

I would not take my dog to Petsmart or the doggie park until they had all of their puppy shots to included their rabies vaccination. This is two fold for me - first and foremost to protect my puppy and second to respect other dog owners. I have found a lot of dog owners are more comfortable when they have had their puppy vaccinations and their rabies shots (yes, I have been asked this question when I approached the doggie park before). The vet told me it was okay to take them pretty much anywhere after they had their third shot.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I haven't seen a confused pup yet. maybe I'm just lucky. I know Kaji prefers to potty outside, but it's just not an option we have available to us at this time. He's completely reliable on the pads and hasn't mistaken any other material as a pad. Again, maybe I've just been lucky.

actually very normal for a pup that is trained on a pad if a pad is not handy to find a towel or a area rug to go on.. does not mean they are not house btrained just a wee little confused as to what the actually thing they are to pee on is. So yes you are lucky enjoy.

JL