Very alarmed

[Foster Mom]

Pixie has lost a drastic amount of weight in the past month or so, she is down to just under 7 pounds and she used to be 10 1/2 pounds. We have run every test known to man to the tune of 4500.00 and can find nothing at all medically wrong with her. She refuses to eat dog food so I cook for them, and they get supplements and vitamins so I know she is nutritionally balanced a the recipes I use along with the vitamins and supplements are all approved by her doctor. She stopped eating dog food on a regular basis quite some time ago, and since Nya got here and she refuses to eat dog food too, I just decided cooking for them is easier than stressing or worrying about them. Plus it probably tastes better. Pixies appetite most of the time is good, I just do not understand why she has lost over 3 1/2 pounds in the past 4-6 weeks. To me this is to drastic of a loss to be normal, but as I said we have run every test the vet can think of and he has consulted others to make certain we have not missed anything. She seems alert and as active as she usually is, which is really not very active.

Anyone have any ideas?

[107barney]

Home cooked food is both an art and a science. I would need to know more about how your are supplementing the food but my guess is that it is not balanced. Most home cookers who do it from books or general internet resources or even holistic vets do not balance the diet properly. If the diet has not been designed specifically for your dog, weighing each ingredient and proper supplementation, then yeah, your dog is going to lose weight. This is a dramatic decrease in weight in a short time (30% of body weight) and you should either do a consult with a board certified vet nutritionist for help on the home cooking or put them back on dog food. How many calories are you feeding, what are you feeding, what supplements are you using??

[DvlshAngel985]

That is a lot of weight for such a small body. I hope others have suggestions on what it might be. I hope pixie is ok.

[Foster Mom]

This is the recipe I am using right now, it came highly recommended. I made a smaller batch than called for here because I prefer not to freeze it and I make up a bath every weekend.
8 CUPS MINUTE RICE (1BOX TO 10 CUPS WATER)

(If using regular or brown, uncooked rice, use 4 ½ cups. I cook the rice and meat together, with the meat cut small to fine.{I have small dogs.})

1 1/4 POUND OF WHITEFISH (Cod, Haddock, Orange Roughy,) OR CHICKEN

(I use venison, turkey, pork, or other lean meat, and start with a couple quarts of chicken or turkey broth Ground beef, turkey, or chicken works very well.) Don’t use bouillon cubes or canned broth as they are VERY high in sodium.

6 CARROTS, DICED

4 STALKS CELERY, DICED

I MEDIUM ZUCCHINI, DICED

1 ½ POUNDS GREEN BEANS (½ of 3 pound bag frozen)

1 ½ POUNDS OF MIXED VEGETABLES

(I sometimes add a few tomatoes, peeled, or some tomato sauce, or even a few apples right at the end, just to vary the flavor a bit.)

(You may use more carrots, celery, zucchini, plus sweet potatoes, yellow squash or whatever vegetables you want instead of the frozen mixed vegetables. I try to avoid cauliflower, cabbage, broccoli, corn, and peas, and dried beans.) I use a food processor to shop the veggies, so it takes only minutes.

1/3 CUP OLIVE OIL

½ BOX BARLEY (1 CUP) or 1CUP OLD FASHIONED OATMEAL

2 TABLESPOONS GARLIC (This will be very strong, so I use about 1/2 Tablespoon.)

BASIL, ITALIAN SEASONING, OR POULTRY SEASONING (for flavor)

I USE A SOUP POT TO COOK THE MEAT AND RICE. START WITH ABOUT 10 CUPS IF YOU ARE USING MINUTE RICE OR REGULAR. BRING TO A BOIL AND ADD THE RICE. MEAT, ADD SEASONINGS AND OLIVE OIL. WHEN IT COMES TO A BOIL, COOK 10 MINUTES AND ADD BARLEY, COOK FOR 10 MORE MINUTES. The time may be longer if using brown rice). MINUTE RICE SHOULD BE ADDED NEAR THE END, SINCE IT COOKS QUICKLY.

IN A SEPARATE POT I BRING THE VEGETABLES TO A BOIL IN JUST ENOUGH WATER TO COVER THEM, THEN ADD THEM TO THE RICE POT. I ALSO ADD THE WATER THE VEGETABLES WERE COOKED IN.

I COOK THE VEGETABLES DONE IF THE DOG HAS BAD TEETH OR TROUBLE IN DIGESTION. IF NOT, THEN I BRING THE VEGETABLES TO FULL BOIL AND ADD THEM IMMEDIATELY TO THE RICE AND MEAT, INCLUDING LIQUID. LET THE POT SIT UNTIL ALL THE LIQUID IS ABSORBED, AND MIX WELL TOGETHER. LET IT COOL ENOUGH TO PUT INTO FREEZER BAGS OR DISHES.

YOU CAN FREEZE THIS IN FREEZER BAGS OR PLASTIC FREEZER DISHES.

Use the same amount of food as your dog is currently eating, then adjust as needed to control weight.

If you use turkey, increase the olive oil a bit, since turkey tends to be dry.

If your dog has allergies, don’t use beef; it is highly allergenic.

If stools are loose, decrease the liquid a bit.

If the dog is gaining weight, decrease the olive oil first, then the rice.

To decrease calories, I increased the meat and vegetables and decreased the rice to 3 cups.

I also have begun using brown rice instead of the white.

I checked with Dr Mary Kirk about the garlic (Some sites list it as being toxic) and she said, yes, use it. It will help repel fleas and won’t hurt the dog.

You’ll need to use some chews to keep your dogs’ teeth clean, since this is all soft.

My Yorkies (10 1/2#) get 1/3 TO 1/2 cup night and morning. If you want, you can use a good quality dry food for about half the amount. Good foods should include no sugar or corn syrup or solids and grain should not be listed first. No meat by products as these are innards. You should recognize every item listed and it must be food item. If you don’t know what it is, don’t feed it.

Makes about 2 - 3 gallons depending upon how many vegetables you add. If you add more vegetables, the dog can eat a bit more without getting more calories. I try to give them enough so they aren’t hungry, but have had good luck controlling weight with this method.

The girls also get a multi vitamin every day, Cosequin as they are older and showing signs of arthrisits, I give them cottage cheese and yogurt (not together) as a snack in the afternoons, and they get a suppliment called K-9 extras. They also get Fortiflora if they seem to be having tummy issues (constipation or runny poops) it is a probiotic.

I realize no diet is perfect, but I try to make sure they get everything they need. Their vet helped design this diet along with a nutritionist.

If you can think of anything I am missing or anything that might help, Please by all means let me know. Sometimes it is best to have more than one opinion, so I am all ears...Thanks again in advance

[Foster Mom]

Wee=ll I should say I have had good luck cntrling the weight with this method until recently with Pixies weight loss

[107barney]

All I have to say is that this diet would not be fed in my house for a variety of reasons. Garlic being #1. Olive Oil being #2. Whitefish being #3. White Rice being #4. Supplementation being #5.

I could go on and on and on. This diet is not made FOR THE INDIVIDUAL DOG.

How much is this dog eating of this diet?

[Foster Mom]

As I said in my post I changed from the white rice to brown rice. What is wrong with the fish? (I thought fish was good for them). The garlic I know is not good in large amounts, but I was told in small amounts it would not hurt them at all. Is there a different, better suppliment that one should use?

She eats about 1/3 of a cup twice a day.

You seem to be knowledgeable on this, what would you suggest. As I sad she REFUSES to eat dog food. No ands ifs or buts. I have tried putting it down for 20 minutes then picking it up till next meal, I have not fed her anything inbetween, I have done everything I have ever seen on getting a fussy dog to eat dog food, all to no avail. I tired raw, I have tried the dehydrated type food, I have tried the food rolls by natural balance, I have tried canned food, dry food, all kinds of food available and she just will NOT eat it. I have tried to be more stubborn than her and not give in, but I swear to God I think she would starve herself before she would eat dog food. I have not ever let hr go more than 3 days without eating though, to me that is too long. Or is it?

Now I am very confused. I try to do what is best for them, and give them everything they need. Apparently from your post I am not doing a very good job of it.

Back to the drawing board I guess

[DvlshAngel985]

Wouldn't it be better to consult and expert like Barney suggested? I understand what she means by individualizing meals to the dog. I have limited knowledge in human nutrition, so this makes sense to me. If I were you, I wouldn't go it alone and try foods without knowing what I'm doing right or wrong. Regular vets are awesome, but like human doctors, they are general practitioners. Consult someone who specializes in canine nutrition for the best results. I wish you luck!

[Foster Mom]

Angel, I did consult a nutritionist as I said in my first post. Not a board certified one, but I thought being a nutritionist she knew what she was talking about, i did not know there was a difference between that and board certified. I just saw one my vet recommended. I will check around Monday and try to find one that is board certified. I definately want what is best for my girls.....

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Foster Mom

As I said in my post I changed from the white rice to brown rice. What is wrong with the fish? (I thought fish was good for them). The garlic I know is not good in large amounts, but I was told in small amounts it would not hurt them at all. Is there a different, better suppliment that one should use?

She eats about 1/3 of a cup twice a day.

You seem to be knowledgeable on this, what would you suggest. As I sad she REFUSES to eat dog food. No ands ifs or buts. I have tried putting it down for 20 minutes then picking it up till next meal, I have not fed her anything inbetween, I have done everything I have ever seen on getting a fussy dog to eat dog food, all to no avail. I tired raw, I have tried the dehydrated type food, I have tried the food rolls by natural balance, I have tried canned food, dry food, all kinds of food available and she just will NOT eat it. I have tried to be more stubborn than her and not give in, but I swear to God I think she would starve herself before she would eat dog food. I have not ever let hr go more than 3 days without eating though, to me that is too long. Or is it?

Now I am very confused. I try to do what is best for them, and give them everything they need. Apparently from your post I am not doing a very good job of it.

Back to the drawing board I guess

There is nothing wrong with whitefish, except that it can cause rapid weight loss. I like fish for dogs, but not nearly as much as I like other sources of protein.

I think right now she needs calories. I think the best way to do this is with dog food. If you are really not wanting to do dog food, here is a diet for a 15-lb dog. It's a generic home cooked diet, but it is easy and it is balanced. I would try it for a week, and see if she puts on weight. If she does not, then you are going to have to do the dog food until you can get a consult with the veterinary nutritionist.

I would probably do dark meat chicken and peas as a start, but the diet gives you options.

http://support.mspca.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=1562

[MamaZiggy]

sorry, cant help with this. just wanted to say, hope your lettle one puts on weight, or you atleast figure out what's wrong.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Foster Mom

Angel, I did consult a nutritionist as I said in my first post. Not a board certified one, but I thought being a nutritionist she knew what she was talking about, i did not know there was a difference between that and board certified. I just saw one my vet recommended. I will check around Monday and try to find one that is board certified. I definately want what is best for my girls.....

Therein lies the problem! While some people have good results, I just wouldn't chance it going to someone who is not a ACVN diplomat.

I use Dr. Remillard who is a board certified veterinary nutritionist in Boston. She does phone consults. She also has generic dog diets on her website, Welcome to Pet Diets, that cost $25 that are made to your dog's weight. If you purchase more than one diet at the time of the transaction, each subsequent diet is $12. This is the most affordable way I know of to get diets made for your dog. The drawback is that they are generic diets, you key in your dog's weight, breed, and other info. Its not like a consult where you are talking to the vet for a half hour and she is looking at your dog's medical record. But, I'm not sure Nya needs a consult, she needs calories based on what you are saying.

Right now, you need to put weight back on that dog, so that is why I gave you the 15-lb generic dog food diet. Once you reach the optimum weight, you can buy the diets as I explained above.

Feel free to PM me also for any cooking, storage, etc kind of advice. I obviously can't advise you what to feed your dog other than throwing out resources I myself would and do rely upon, but I have been home cooking for 11 years and even though my Teddy likes his RC kibble better, I think I'm pretty good at it!

[Foster Mom]

Thank you Barney. I am not opposed to dog food, I just cannot get her to eat it no matter what I try. I have tried VERY hard, but she just will not eat it.

I will give this recipe a try and order the supplement listed there.

Thanks again so much

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Foster Mom

Thank you Barney. I am not opposed to dog food, I just cannot get her to eat it no matter what I try. I have tried VERY hard, but she just will not eat it.

I will give this recipe a try and order the supplement listed there.

Thanks again so much

Anytime! BTW, I have the supplement here, if you want I can send you a small amount today to start in a ziplock baggie while you wait. Just PM your addy, I go to the post office at 6 PM. A couple of days w/o are fine but if you wanted to try it out before you buy to see if she does ok, I'm happy to help.

[Teresa Ford]

I am not offering advice about feeding, as I know that it is not my area of expertise. I just want to send you emotional support and love. I will also add Pixie to my prayer list. She is very blessed to have you caring for her. I know you will do your best for her. Please update us as you can.