The other problem with spanking is the angry parent that is doing it cant adaquately judge when enough is enough

I think a little fear of parent is good. I don't mean in that there is a fear of being harmed.. but fear that if the right thing is not done there is a price to pay. I have a little "fear" of my boss-- fear of having to be called down for a meeting. It makes me be on time to work, and to be follow the rules. Why don't we speed when driving? Fear of a ticket-- otherwise I would speed for sure.
I am sure my girls got home by curfew because they knew what would happen if they didn't (grounding) and they were just a little afraid of what I would do... not that I would hit them or hurt them. Embarrassing is a great tool with teens:)



I agree with a lot you are saying. If you broke the "chain" of "abuse" by raising you children differently I am so proud of you.
Hitting -- yelling-- hurting in anyform is not discipline it is punishment!!!!

I agree.. even timeout can be abusive if too long and for too many reasons

This is what I said :). I didn't say fear in general. I'm talking about fear of hitting, in any of its forms.

I don't disagree with this, mostly. I'd probably go for respect of authority rather than fear.

But again, I fully believe, without any doubt, that a child should NEVER fear being hit by a parent. Physical aggression or even implying a child should fear their physical safety with their parents, is not something that can ever be justified. When a parent hits, they've crossed one of the most important physical boundaries of that child, a boundary that should be nurtured, not violated. :(

Wow - just wow... I go from reading a post about having a pup in a store and the owner being approached by Ms. VIP to allowing children in restaurants.... Of course I didn't read all 15 pages of posts, but look at how that leap went.... :cool:

yes.. true.. you have a good point. Your wording is a bit better than mine
I think we are saying the same just in a different way.

I will say this, I have friends that are "touchers" you know the type, they poke you when they are talking ect. I don't like it. I think some times a "poke" on the fanny is a way of a parent making a point.
Now.. like I said I think the only way to change a person who was raised to hit is education! There are many cultures that believe in physical punishment. So there are bad parents who don't care, bad parents who just don't know better.
Think of the people that we were complaining about in stores.. most were not educated people. I guess education (and I am not talking BS, AS, BA, AA or PHD here guys- I talking life education, compassion) is what will change people.

It happens here, it's funny how discussions can leap all over - but that's the nature of it...YT allows it as much as possible, esp if it's a healthy conversation.

Yes yes yes yes yes. Agree.

I like the idea of grasping a hand firmly and forcing a child to focus on your eyes and tell them what they're doing wrong, even if it doesn't work or sink in; something along those lines will work eventually - unless the child has brain chemistry issues or is autistic etc...that's a whole 'nother issue.

Completely agree on education, the kind you're talking about! :)

I meant to say...I'm really happy that no one is getting upset over this discussion. Parenting is such a sensitive topic, understandably :love:.

I don't think there is a Good Parent or a Bad Parent - I think it's more like, there is a Parent (just biology there) or a Better Parent (all ranges of such) (who likes to evolve as a parent).

I probably should just keep my mouth shut, but I mostly agree with My Lil Friend about this. It's hard to put into just a few words, but yes, I believe that spanking can be done in an appropriate way.

We raised 2 boys that have grown to be men I am proud of. They have generous loving hearts, were never bullies, were good students, etc.. They did both get a few spankings, from me, in their younger years, though.

I was brought up in a different time and got more spankings than I felt I should have. My Mom was the disciplinarian and she was pretty tough with it. I won't say abuse...it wasn't that, but I knew I would do things differently. Honestly, though, in that time, what she did was pretty typical.

What I did differently was: first....I never used anything but an open hand applied to the behind. Also, neither of mine EVER got a spanking without several warnings first. When I did actually spank them, it was without anger and was never excessive. And, really, spankings were few and far between.

Spanking, to me, should not be the first thing a parent looks to. Time spent nurturing and teaching kids is by far the what should be most used. I wouldn't rule out spanking entirely, though. To each his own but I don't like inferences that equate spanking with abuse. It CAN be abusive, but so can neglect and failing to properly teach life's lessons to our children. We are not their parents to JUST love them, but to raise them to be responsible adults. Children, unlike our pets, grow up and move on to make their place in the world. We have to get them ready for that.

I don't agree that spanking should be used to 'startle' a kid. That's punishment coming out of the blue. I wouldn't want to live wondering when the next one was coming. The whole idea of corporal punishment is that 'certain' things may have that consequence, but it should not be a surprise to the child.

I see here on YT what some wish for those that abuse animals and such. Pretty nasty sometimes. Did you ever think that that person might have done differently had they received a better upbringing? Though some of those folks may have been abused as a child, many likely had no discipline or guidance. Too little discipline can have the same effect as too much, IMO. I believe it's reflected in our society today, too. Not spanking is a recent phenomena in our society and so is the breakdown of respect, lack of a work ethic among many and general moral relativism. Hmm...might there be a connection?

OK, that's my thoughts. I respect others opinions, but I'd like to have mine respected, too.

I could not agree with you any more!! This is why I love you :) Making your child fear you is not good parenting.

Before I got to read further, the thoughts that went through my mind as I read about parenting and spanking were those more eloquently expressed by Ann than I could have written. I don't personally have children, but I speak from my own experiences in my childhood and my experiences as an adult and as a teacher. I know many loving people who I consider great parents who gently spanked their children, but it's not a method I could ever consider. Spanking reinforces fear and sometimes violence, and I don't think either of them ever encourages a person to do the right thing. I am very soft-spoken with my students, yet I am asked why I rarely have issues with discipline with my "kids." There is so much that can be gained by a gentle touch to ease someone's fears or to get their attention, and even a small hug can do so much. When you treat people and even children with respect, you can reach them far deeper than you can with fear. I've taught high school students for twenty six years, but I also taught elementary school children for six years when I first began my teaching career. Not all children can be reached this way, but positive reinforcement works far more than negative reinforcement. I work with students with learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD, Autism, Asperger's Syndrome, and emotional problems, and I can usually reach them by gaining their respect and by showing them respect. Having people fear you teaches them nothing about being kind and respectful individuals.

I personally will go to the ends of the earth for someone I respect, who treats me with respect, and who believes in me. I never want to let someone like that down, so I will try and work much harder for him. Fear is never a motivator for me; it actually can paralyze me in some respects. As a child there was nothing I wouldn't have done to please my mother and I only received a great deal of love from her. The slightest look of displeasure would have upset me to no end because I respected her so much. I was never hit once by her. My father was someone who I feared, and although I never did anything wrong or hit by him, I was still afraid. Although I was never disrespectful with him, I had far less respect for him than I felt for my mother. He occcasionally hit my sisters, but it was never in a way anyone would consider abusive. However, the mental scars left are great for my sisters. I'd like to think I fully escaped them, but I doubt I could have completely. I am very, very fortunate that I also learned from my mom about how being loving and treating people with respect leaves a far greater impact on bringing about positive behaviors. I believe that you need to be with people, particularly with children, the way you'd like them to act. If you want them to treat others with kindness, you should model that kindness. I wouldn't say it's always perfect in my experience with the "kids" in my life, but few students I've worked with have failed to respond to kindness, respect, and love.

:thumbup: I actually think this was well thought out and do not disagree with it. Thank you for sharing Woogie.

I've known many great kids/adults who parents spanked them (not on an abusive level). None of them consider themselves abused or are afraid of their parents.

I think that every child is different and there is also a right and wrong way to go about everything. ::shrug:: Not sure how I will raise my kids if I ever have any (right now that is not something I want, but as the saying goes never say never :P), but it is good to read about different points of view. :)

I agree 100% that society has deteriorated, but the source of that deterioration has so many contributing factors, I think we'd be hard-pressed to think of them all. :( It is sad really.

I think it's what works for the child personally. There are people like me, who as a child was terrified of spanking, but if you put me in my room or the "naughty" stool I would have had not have treated it as a punishment and been off in my own little world. With saying that, my brother on the other hand you could have spanked until the cows came home, but if you put him in his room he was a wreck and that was the worse punishment.

My parents spanked, and I didn't grow up violent. And I know if my husband and I could have kids that I would do what my parents did and figure out what punishment worked best with which kid.

I know I'm going to have people disagree with me, but all I know is I have customers come in all the time, and there are some kids that if I acted up like that my mom, in public, would have swated my butt all the way out to the car. And there are times where I want to smack the kid back out to the car. But honestly, we as kids never threw fits are acted bad in public because, to be hoenst, we did fear what my mom could do. No physically but, she was mom and we knew darn well when she gave us the "look" we better shape our butts up.

I went the complete opposite. My mom was very heavy handed. My step dad used to have to pull her off of us to keep her from hitting us. I feel my mom was abusive. It wasn't discipline.

I have never raised my hand to one of my kids, and never will, because I am afraid of being like my mother. She didn't know when to stop, and I have chose not to open myself up to the possibility.

I wish I could say spanking didn't have a negative affect on me. I agree what works for one child may not work for another, but spanking was a form of discipline I chose not to use. I have heard that we tend to parent our kids the way we were parented, but I chose to parent mine the way I wanted to be parented but wasnt. Funny, now that my kids are older they give me feedback on my parenting of them and compare me to their friend's parents. It is funny mostly, but I am proud of what they have to say about my parenting and glad that they are not telling me they got underserving spankings, the way I tell about my parents.

LOL I was thinking the same thing, lol! Its like reading a YT diary heehee

I think parenting styles are very personal and each person has their own idea of what is right and wrong. Before having my children, it never crossed my mind that I would raise my kids any different than how I was by my parents. It wasn't until I had my own babies that I knew I wanted to do things my own way. I never quite understood just how huge of a responsibility it is to nurture this little baby into becoming a wonderful human being. I just thought that hey, I turned out just fine and I was spanked or at least had the threat of it. I have 2 incredible children (ages 6 and 7) and we do not have to spank them.....they didn't even do "time-out" when they were toddlers. Don't get me wrong, I believe in being firm and I strongly believe in teaching my children that we live life knowing that there are consequences to our actions. Do they fully get this concept.....no. But they do to a certain degree and it's all about learning this as they grow and I can't do this if I cloud their minds with the fear of being hit (and I do, personally, refer to spanking as hitting). I may parent differently because one of my BIGGEST fears is that my children might someday question my love. I am tearing up at the very thought. As they have gotten older, they tend to argue with each other often so they have been doing some "time-outs" in their bedrooms. I have to tell you, I sometimes go to my bedroom and cry because I feel so guilty for using an angry tone with them. I know some will think that this is nuts and extreme on my part, but I cannot help it. I want them to ALWAYS feel my love. I am not saying that a parent that spanks doesn't want the same because I know this is just not the case. For me and my children, hitting is not necessary. I am a complete sap when it comes to my babies and, like I said, it is very important that they always feel my love. We can be driving down the highway and I will just tell them how incredible they are and how much I love them (out-of-the-blue). I do this because I have had such dear, special people in my life unexpectedly die and we just never know what life holds for us. If something were to ever happen to me, I do not want to leave this world without them knowing just how cherished they are. I cannot bring myself to lift my hand to hurt my children.

On the other side of this issue.....I do have friends that believed in spanking and I know that their children turned out great and they have wonderful relationships with them.

I have always admired and respected you, Tammy, and your post brought me to tears. Your children are very lucky to have you as their mom, and I know you are equally as lucky to have such special children. You treat your children as I was always treated by my mom, and that love has sustained me and given me my own moral foundation, even though she passed away just before my twentieth birthday. If I had my own children, I think I'd be similar to you, and it's also the way I try to treat my high school "kids" at work. It's not a strategy of mine, but it's just the bond that forms between us. There are consequences for their behavior, but they know that no matter how they might try to push me away if they have problems, I'm always going to be there for them and also that I love them. It makes such a huge difference, not only in our relationships, my ability to teach them, and also in their self-esteems. You can get so much further when opening up your heart and showing people love and understanding, and that goes for children, as well.

Not that spanking doesnt work for other parents, it just isnt for me!

I'm just proud that both my daughters graduated high school without a baby or getting pregnant. Major accomplishment nowadays! We are an open family, both my girls came to me and told when they were thinking they might have met "the right one" and we discussed things like adults concerning options, why they felt that way, etc. I didnt want them to have sex, but knew that they would anyway if they were set on it, so we made sure they were protected and responsible.

I have a 20 month old grandson, but he's my son in laws from a previous relationship.
My 15 yr old might not have a pecker if he even thinks about getting a girl pregnant!! But we've had the responsible talk with him as well.

By the way, none of my kids want to spank their children. They are like me in so many ways.

I just about spit my water out laughing at that comment!!

Love it!!

:thumbup: what she said...

I don't understand why this thread is going back to the negativity? I think we've seen on this thread "entitlement" has spread into many areas - including saying things to ppl we know are "over the line" but do not care because it "felt good". I hope this thread does not descend again into what it became.

I see here on YT what some wish for those that abuse animals and such. Pretty nasty sometimes. Did you ever think that that person might have done differently had they received a better upbringing? Though some of those folks may have been abused as a child, many likely had no discipline or guidance. Too little discipline can have the same effect as too much, IMO. I believe it's reflected in our society today, too. Not spanking is a recent phenomena in our society and so is the breakdown of respect, lack of a work ethic among many and general moral relativism. Hmm...might there be a connection?

OK, that's my thoughts. I respect others opinions, but I'd like to have mine respected, too.[/QUOTE]



I agree with you that there is a connection between no spanking and a lack of respect for authority.

I have asked a couple of my 6 how they personally felt about being spanked. MY 18yr old said "that he felt that he had never been beat and that looking back he appreciated the fact that I always explained the "cause and effect" of discipline because if you dont learn it under your parents roof you may end up learning it behind bars. It helps him color within the lines of our society and stay out of trouble." He also stated that " he has met people his age that he little respect for their family or parents and they dont stay friends very long". I got pretty much the same answer from the other two that I spoke to.
It us unfortunate that our society sees the word and action of a spanking as the same as a beating. I can tell you from personal experience that they are not the same (I was the kid). Above all else and no matter what form of discipline you use,, NEVER discipline out of anger. This is the hardest part of parenting. I have gone to my room or the backyard to cool off and decide what proper discipline is to be used. When I have wanted to yell or discipline out of anger I try to remember two things. First my mother in law taught me "the more upset you get the softer you talk,it helps you stay in control and not harm",great advice from an older lady. The other would be my older brother commenting to me when my mother would snap "she is letting her brains hang out" and he would laugh. So with that visual I would always try to take a deeeep breath before speaking and check the volume of my voice.

No Im not a perfect mother and no my children arent perfect either,but I saw so much ugly as a child that I didnt want to revisit it in any form. As a child I told myself "what does not kill you can make you stronger" and "I can choose to do better".

Don't agree whatsoever on "no spanking = lack of respect for authority". You can discipline without physically abusing your children and still end up with kids that respect authority. Lack of spanking should never equate to lack of discipline.

Parents need to take responsibility. Just as your pets don't come to you knowing all the rules, neither do your children. It's your JOB as their parents to teach them, not let them run amok and do whatever they want cuz you're afraid they won't like you or cuz you're too lazy to get off your butt to deal with them.

Therein lies the problem. Parents without respect and responsibility can't possibly teach their kids those values.

I think you are such a sweet heart. And I can see the love you have for your children.

I will say my view of being a parent is different now that my girls are grown. I agree.... we do not have to PUNISH our children we need to DISCIPLINE which by definition is to TEACH!!!

I so agree with you on showing your children love... that is why we have children. But ... Please .... don't worry about your children ever thinking you don't love them. now.. they may act like they don't love you or you don't love them when they are teenagers.. don't dispare .. there is light at the other end of the tunnel!!

I will add.... as a parent, a teacher, a girl scout leader, cheer team mom, vacation bible school teacher, camp Councillor.... children need discipline and they need limits. They want limits. They need a little fear of consequences (or if you rather use the word respect) and they need to learn to respect themselves and others. I think when a child is not taught (disciplined) or they do not have limits they don't learn to respect themselves.

Geezz..IDK.. I was strict by some parents standards and too easy by others..I just decided I was who I was and I loved my girls and I did the very best I could. They are adults now, in mid 20's and we are very close and they are doing well. In 15 to 20 years you will look back and see how well you have done and what great kids you have.. remember that through the teen years:)

Lol, have your kids left home yet?

LOL.....Good Point. It is not that I love one more than the other... it is a different type of love. With the girls gone, I NEED the love my three dogs give me... how could I not value that!!

Exactly, and with my kids I always worried about how they'd turn out and what was the best thing for their future. With Joey, there's no worries, he never will go out and marry or need to find a job and live productively in society. I just want to be able to take Joey as many places as I can. If he’s in a covered carrier, I don’t see why the store would complain; he can’t pee or get into stuff. There are some stores that will take him, but I try to run my errands so that I’m not wasting gas, and if I have to go to a store where he’s not allowed, it’s just too hot to leave him in the car (even with windows cracked) so that means he can’t go on so many different trips. He just loves to go in the car and really seems so sad when he can't go.

See....you'll never have to cut his pecker off for making you an early grandma!!:thumbup::p

:sidesplt::sidesplt: The word cracks me up. :p


I'd have to say, spanking doesn't teach a child anything...except that it is okay to be violent...I was raised by my grandmother and I used to get spanked often with a wood back scratcher. Sometimes I got spanked until I bled (not a lot though)...and I honestly think there are more productive disciplining methods. When I have kids in the future, I really don't want to spank my children. I was always taught to appreciate adults punishing you because if they don't punish (criticize/ verbally abuse) you, then they don't care about you. :rolleyes:

That is what I mean by the cycle of abuse being broken. Many raise their children how they were raise and have been taught that punishment equals love NO NO NO... Discipline equals love. I do believe it takes more effort and "love" to discipline a child than it does to let them have their way and/or to punish.
Also I am so glad you put the verbally abuse and criticize in that category.
It is as harmful as physical abuse (hitting with the intent to hurt or excessive "odd" restrictions -- such as withholding food or confinement)
I am so glad you see that.. and you will be a better parent because of that.