Decision on Docking Tail

[concretegurl]

At least this one is fairer in the no docking argument...just saying.
Notice a vet is doing it too.
They do not numb the pup in this, but this is the proper procedure.
YouTube - Tail Docking and Dew Claw Removal in 2 Day-Old Pups:Torture or Not?

I posted link and not video, it's not horrid but may be disturbing to some.

[yorkietalkjilly]

My Tibbe sounded like that when I first tried to brush him or clip his toenails. He was almost feral when I first got him and had apparently only had very few things done to him in his lifetime so he yelped and yelped at everything I tried to do in the way of grooming. Only with a lot of love, patience and persistence did Tibbe learn that grooming was not scary or painful and he fairly quickly quit crying out and yelping during grooming sessions and of course now, snoozes through his brushing.

Most dogs are very stoic with severe pain issues and you will see them mostly suffer serious, prolonged pain in total silence; but sudden or sharp pain, anything that pulls a dog's hair, restrains them for long(especially puppies) or scares them will almost always elicit repetitive yelping.

There is no doubt tail docking/dew claw removal elicits some pain but without sophisticated nervous system development as newborns, their ability to perceive continued pain is absent. I would rather my Tibbe have his tail docked as a newborn than take the chance of a serious injury as an older dog when he really will suffer for a prolonged period of time.

What I worry about more than newborns getting tails docked are older dogs with fully developed nervous systems that have injuries or have surgery with sutures/staples in place sent home with no pain medication and because they are not yelping as the puppies in that video, it is just assumed by one and all that they are not in pain and they must suffer their entire recuperation in pain and silence!!!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by AlicetheYorkie

woah woah woah First let me just say, I apologize if I offended you (in retrospect ,I should have chose my wording more thoughtfully), but I am not a close minded or arrogant person and I was not trying to "deny your experience" since I didn't even know you had one. I never said nor was I trying to imply that YOU lied, you never said in your original post that you were PRESENT for the tail docking of your puppies at all, you only described what your vet told you. I had NO CLUE you were there, all I meant by my comment about your vet "lieing" about the pup sleeping throught it or it not being painfull was that I know some vets (and MDs) downplay what pain is going to be like for a procedure, especially vets since 99% of the time the owner is not present and has no clue what is happening. The vets I worked for are the best in the area and the specific one I worked for where most of my experience lies is AAHA approved and is 100% UTD on the lastest medical procedures and equipment. I was by no means at all trying to call you a lier nor was I trying to come down on you for docking your pups tails or anything else negative towards you. The OP was asking for an honest opinion about whether or not to dock her pups tails and I was simply sharing my experience with her. The only reason I quoted you was because it SEEMED like your vet may have not been being 100% honest with you, but I do appoligize if I was wrong or insulted you in any way, I assure that was never my intention at all. Bottom line is, IMHO no matter how gentle the vet is, what they are doing is cutting off the tail. And like I said, NOTHING AT ALL AGAINST ANYONE WHO DOCKS TAILS - I agree with you that the puppies do forget all about it a few seconds later (as I believe I stated in my post) and you're also right that all they want to do is look for "mommy" at that point and they are fine afterwards. The fact of the matter is, it does cause pain (even though only a few seconds of it) to the dog and my experiences (many) prove that to me. I'm not saying it's cruel or tramatizing in the long run, I just personaly think it's unnessesary and it was my absolute least favorite thing to assist the veterinarian with because I felt bad for the puppies for that few seconds. The OP was having douts about doing it and the ONLY thing I was trying to do was provide her with some knowledge. Sorry again if I offended you, I wasn't trying to and I do apologize.

Thank you for your post. It was just a difference in perceptions on both our parts. As long as I know you were not doubting me personally, I have no problem. It is good to look at different opinions and experiences.

I am not all "for" docking but did it to comply with standard. If the standard changed, I would not have a problem with that either. I personally like the look of a docked yorkie tail -- but that is because that is what I am used to. I am sure I would love the full tail if that is what mine had. Like I said before, I do admire the ones I see here!

I just think people should understand a properly docked tail on a newborn (3 days old) is not a traumatic painful event for a pup. It is not the same in all animals and is definately not the same for an older dog. If a pup cannot be docked before their 5th day, then it should not be done or only done under anesthetic for a particular medical reason. After the 5th day, little by little the pup's pain perceptions are maturing and it would hurt too much. I have read that a day or two can make a world of difference. So, if it is to be done -- schedule it for Day 3!! (That is just to not separate them at all from momma or take out to the vet those first 2 crucial days of life).