Not sure what to think.

[maggiesmom_2007]

Welcome to 600 Million Stray Dogs Need You

I came across this website and I am unsure of my opinion right now.
This would be good in so many ways if it goes through with the FDA. But will it be more affordable for the pet owner? Will it be vetoed because it would take money away from the veterinarians who do the surgeries? Will it be one more thing show breeders have to watch out for at dog shows? Would this be the answer for breeders who want to make sure the puppies they place won't be bred?

What do you think?

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

Welcome to 600 Million Stray Dogs Need You

I came across this website and I am unsure of my opinion right now.
This would be good in so many ways if it goes through with the FDA. But will it be more affordable for the pet owner? Will it be vetoed because it would take money away from the veterinarians who do the surgeries? Will it be one more thing show breeders have to watch out for at dog shows? Would this be the answer for breeders who want to make sure the puppies they place won't be bred?

What do you think?

I think you need to be licensed and monitored in your practices to be held accountable and responsible in order to be breeding period, ensuring only healthy dogs are bred, at appropriate ages, intervals and overall numbers of litters.

My solution every dog needs a birth certificate and a microchip correlating with it so there's accountability for where, whom and the parentage of each dog out there. These would be used for registration at one large national registry...then we'd know who was breeding who to who, how many etc...pup mills busted, BYB ousted, dna testing should be also used (maternity/paternity testing). Advances in accountability and responsibility not creating more pills and band-aid solutions.

As far as pups being re-homed-with spay/neuter contracts well they are effective when written in conjunction with the state law and when enforced...a better method the standard $500 extra deposit-you get it back when you provide proof of spay neuter-again this requires micro chipping for verification and the trusting of the vet whom signs off on it...

I'm just skeptical about the idea of a pill being out there that can do such...I know people were freaking out on microchips (They'll chip our children!) but hmm I'm still not into the idea of this when it seems a dangerous and band aid solution to common sense evolution in the requirements of responsibility and accountability.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I think you need to be licensed and monitored in your practices to be held accountable and responsible in order to be breeding period, ensuring only healthy dogs are bred, at appropriate ages, intervals and overall numbers of litters.

My solution every dog needs a birth certificate and a microchip correlating with it so there's accountability for where, whom and the parentage of each dog out there. These would be used for registration at one large national registry...then we'd know who was breeding who to who, how many etc...pup mills busted, BYB ousted, dna testing should be also used (maternity/paternity testing). Advances in accountability and responsibility not creating more pills and band-aid solutions.

As far as pups being re-homed-with spay/neuter contracts well they are effective when written in conjunction with the state law and when enforced...a better method the standard $500 extra deposit-you get it back when you provide proof of spay neuter-again this requires micro chipping for verification and the trusting of the vet whom signs off on it...

I'm just skeptical about the idea of a pill being out there that can do such...I know people were freaking out on microchips (They'll chip our children!) but hmm I'm still not into the idea of this when it seems a dangerous and band aid solution to common sense evolution in the requirements of responsibility and accountability.

You do realize this link is merely announcing the creation, testing, and pursual of FDA approval for a pill that provides PERMANENT sterilization, right? It is just an alternative to surgical spay and neutering. How is this a bandaid? It is just offering an alternative to costly and sometimes dangerous surgical sterilization. It is NOT trying to be the panacea for all crimes against mankind/dogkind! Think BIG picture here not just breeders, not just yorkies, not just the people who would register a dog! Mixed mutts, dog pounds, shelters, rescues, off standard, genetic health problems, bad temperment, too old, all of the MANY reasons that further procreation is neither needed nor desired.

I think it is great for them to come up with something like this. It is not in the "buy it from your vet" stage, needs more testing and FDA approval. But if I can have this as an alternative to what is sometimes dangerous spaying surgery for a small pup, for instance, I would be researching it! The cost savings would be a Godsend to rescues, shelters, and the poor. Countries with even worse stray dog populations than our own could be helped immensely with a very low-cost sterilization option.

I don't know how it works, don't know the details in effectiveness or the testing accomplished so far. I do think the investigation into the POTENTIAL for a product like this could be beneficial to pet population control. Long way to go before the prescriptions could be written, but I am glad research is being done in this direction. Emphasis on long way to go!

BTW -- you say you want all breeders licensed? Why? Because it has worked out so well with the USDA breeders that are required to be licensed? The very ones that are selling tinies, mixing breeds, running puppymills, brokering, keeping Yorkies so badly matted you don't know there is a dog under there?

You want a "birth certificate" issued by one national registry....hmmmm...we ALREADY HAD that -- the AKC. But the GREEDERS didn't like being held accountable or being banned for poor record keeping and bad breeding practices, so they all started their own registries. Since this is still a free country, can't really stop that from happening.

You mention enforcement and that is a HUGE part of all problems in dog breeding, selling, and ownership. Where are you going to get the money to improve the enforcement? If we had that NOW to enforce what is required NOW, we would have few problems. But none of this has anything to do with the OP's subject. She is just asking what we think about research into a pill alternative to surgical spay & neuter. We really should just stick to that.

Offering an alternative method of sterilization is in NO WAY usurping accountability and responsibility from pet owners, breeders, or anyone else having anything to do with dogs. It is just a potential option when right now we only have the surgery. I can see this having HUGE effects in pet population control. This is not going to make a big difference to those of us here, on a yorkie forum -- it could make a HUGE difference to the unwanted populations -- the poor strays that run the streets, without food, and shelter.

[Woogie Man]

Apparently contraception for dogs and cats is a BIG thing. There is a $25 million prize being offered for the scientist that comes up with a single dose contraceptive that works on male and female dogs and cats.

Can you solve this global challenge? | mpg.fixative.clientapp.com

Here's a link to an article discussing current contraceptives available....

Non-Surgical Contraception - WSAVA2009

Here's another link with some things mentioned...

Alliance for Contraception in Cats and Dogs - About

I couldn't find anything about what you posted about except in the link you provided. It's very vague so hard to get much from it. At the bottom of the page they ask for donations, which is odd as there are grants available for promising research...and then there's the $25 million prize. Most of the info was much the same as other sites discussing the subject i.e., describing the problem and what a contraceptive would mean for population control. Not sure what to it (your link). It is kind of weird for someone to ask for donations while at the same time looking for business partners for a product that would be worth megabucks if successful.

[DvlshAngel985]

That's interesting. Having a little boy myself, it has me wondering what else other than contraceptive will the pill do? Will it also take away that drive to want to chase after females in heat? Will it also help avoid some cancers?
No I haven't read it yet. Maybe I should.

[maggiesmom_2007]

Thanks for bringing up more valid questions. And thanks for more info for this discussion.
I have taken some time to ponder what this would mean for pet owners everywhere.
People who couldn't afford the surgery for whatever reasons would be able to sterilize their family pet.
Like it was said in everyone of the links it would cut down on pet overpopulation, less animals would die.
Responsible Breeders could do this before the pups went to their new homes. Contracts and money back can only do so much. Not everyone will think they have to follow whats on a piece of paper and some will think they can make more money when they have puppies so won't think twice about the money they would get back from spaying.


Right now the only issue I have is this . Will this be something else we as show breeders have to watch out for at dog shows?

[misslissa]

i really wish something like this can become a reality I love it I think it would solve so many problems but I still see it as 10+ years off. Then you have to worry about possible health risks and everything else.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

Thanks for bringing up more valid questions. And thanks for more info for this discussion.
I have taken some time to ponder what this would mean for pet owners everywhere.
People who couldn't afford the surgery for whatever reasons would be able to sterilize their family pet.
Like it was said in everyone of the links it would cut down on pet overpopulation, less animals would die.
Responsible Breeders could do this before the pups went to their new homes. Contracts and money back can only do so much. Not everyone will think they have to follow whats on a piece of paper and some will think they can make more money when they have puppies so won't think twice about the money they would get back from spaying.


Right now the only issue I have is this . Will this be something else we as show breeders have to watch out for at dog shows?

Are you concerned that someone would slip a "pill" to your dog? Obviously as this pill is still in development we have some time before this becomes an active concern I would think.

[gemy]

i think that vets for the most part will come on board with this. I would imagine that this pill will be a prescribed drug, and assess to it will be through a licensed vet. If this pill is as wonderful as they say it is, then all spaying surgery will eventually be phased out.
And licensed vets could charge near as much as a surgery.

[maggiesmom_2007]

Originally Posted by gemy

[/B]

Are you concerned that someone would slip a "pill" to your dog? Obviously as this pill is still in development we have some time before this becomes an active concern I would think.

The way they were saying the pill would be in a treat like biscuit. So yes I would be concerned that someone could potentially slip one to my dog at a show.

[maggiesmom_2007]

Originally Posted by gemy

i think that vets for the most part will come on board with this. I would imagine that this pill will be a prescribed drug, and assess to it will be through a licensed vet. If this pill is as wonderful as they say it is, then all spaying surgery will eventually be phased out.
And licensed vets could charge near as much as a surgery.

I hadn't seen any info on if it would be a prescription or not but it is emphasized that it would be more affordable that having the surgery.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

Thanks for bringing up more valid questions. And thanks for more info for this discussion.
I have taken some time to ponder what this would mean for pet owners everywhere.
People who couldn't afford the surgery for whatever reasons would be able to sterilize their family pet.
Like it was said in everyone of the links it would cut down on pet overpopulation, less animals would die.
Responsible Breeders could do this before the pups went to their new homes. Contracts and money back can only do so much. Not everyone will think they have to follow whats on a piece of paper and some will think they can make more money when they have puppies so won't think twice about the money they would get back from spaying.


Right now the only issue I have is this . Will this be something else we as show breeders have to watch out for at dog shows?

Those are valid points. My question to that would be, will breeders be sterilizing dogs at a younger age? Don't the pups need to have all their functions (and this includes hormones) in order to develop properly? (I genuinely don't know the answer to that)

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Those are valid points. My question to that would be, will breeders be sterilizing dogs at a younger age? Don't the pups need to have all their functions (and this includes hormones) in order to develop properly? (I genuinely don't know the answer to that)

Good question. Neutering at 12 weeks of age would not be a good idea.

I read a post recently in a dog forum about a dog experiencing health problems after "chemical castration." This was the first I had ever heard of such a thing. I cannot imagine that any pill for sterilization could ever be made as safe as surgical neutering.

[concretegurl]

I believe the answer to your question is YES.

There are all kinds of horrible people out there.

I'd be equally concerned about the miss-usage on people, in the same instance-unbeknown to them perhaps. I understand we have current nonsurgical methods of sterilization for people but we do not have a one does pill available.
To even counteract with well this one dose pill could be kept under strict supervision and administered only by vets...hmmm aren't many other veterinary medications also...yet they are used for human consumption in recreational usage as well as the ever concerning instances of "date rape"...food for thought and my two cents..it's just too scary-especially when I used to pass out free spay/neuter vouchers...

As far as people being concerned about the age of pups taking these pills from a breeders etc. I have and will never fix a female prior to one year old. I don't want to start an off topic debate here-that's just my own personal choice-because I truly believe that the experience of heat for females does in fact better their personality and temperament. I could site references stating such and there are equally as many on the opposite side-going back and forth on this would be silly-its my opinion from what I've experienced first hand.

I still believe in spay/neuter contracts when done right, a hefty (temporary refundable) 1. deposit is taken, 2. a legally written contract, 3. pup is only placed as a pet with limited registration.

I hear a lot of breeders on here complaining about this but none that are complaining seem to follow these three steps-they seem to just give excuses of this isn't legal, that is too hard to enforce, its too complicated, if you take the time and effort to breed responsibly you should be doing all you can to ensure the responsible pet ownership of the pup you place.
It is true though, if someone is going to breed them they will...but I wonder the difference in one being bred when these three step are actually taken...and then considering those statistics verse the half attempts...again my opinion.