Lost our 2 pups....

[BaxtersMommy]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I doubt any breeder here would teach him a thing. I did not read anything into your post that wasn't already there. And you just confirmed it - you think this man can be taught to breed and I think the only hope for him is a hit in the head with a hammer. He left his dog in feces in the night while he slept in a clean place. I think he is UNEDUCABLE because he already missed the basics. I don't think he can read and learn anything because if he could, he'd already have done it.

Now if you want to quote me that's fine. If you've got an ax to grind with me, take it up in a PM or give me a call.

HAHAHAHA an ax to grind. I confirmed it? Are you crazy?

Where did I say anything he did was OK? I think it is VERY sad. I told him to go to Breeder Talk where he will be able to READ what he did wrong. You certainly aren't telling him by telling him to take a hammer to his head! What good does that do?

What I have learned from YT is that so many people are clueless when it comes to breeding. They do not educate themselves first (which takes years) and then something like this happens. So, why not be the person who points out WHY you dont put a dog in a kennel out in the garage?

Sorry you feel the need to attack me when all I said he needed to read. A good breeder would tell him what he did wrong and convince him that his is something that never needs to happen again. Have you ever thought that this might just continue? You all have a way to explain WHY this was wrong so it doesnt happen again.

[licricket]

I really don't think you want to hear the truth. I just can't figure out why you posted any questions on this site? All of the people who told you not to breed the dog are very very experienced in raising yorkies. And know what they are talking about. For the dog's sake, don't breed her again, and consider putting the poor thing up for adoption. Perhaps to a home where she will be loved and treated as a dog should be treated.

[pawever Yorkie]

no ones perfect here, but we all try our best to give best care possible for our babies. If your human baby has dirty diaper, would you wait till next morning to clean it? Don't you think that if you really cared for your girl, you could have saved poor pups? You should have prepared yourself for your girl's safe delivery and care for newborns. Your poor girl might go through depression due to losing her pups. I'm really sorry for her loss...

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by roncassie

How is a little dog that is a little wet and has a small amount of feces on her butt (not covered as JMuedog has said it was, but you know this because you were here) any different than a dog that is kept in an outside kennel?

My god, there are more haters than helpers on here. No wonder the world is such a dark place with all the haters! If you very first reaction is to flame and hate...you need to really look at yourself. That is not the way to be. Spreading hate and shame. I doubt there is a postive side to you at all after the things you have said.

Yorkies are not dogs you keep in outside kennels. Yorkies kept in outside kennels are usually puppy mill dogs!

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by roncassie

Thanks for your thoughts Beamers Mom.

I will add you the list of people who are haters first. This list is far longer than those who would rather help.

I think people with bigger minds would still answer the questions.... but they cannot get past the wet and poop part. I am sure none of you have ever had a dog give birth unexpectedly. I mean I have read several who have lost pups to not being there. Maybe I will go back and see if you all flamed them. It is very sad that my first ecperience with this place is one that has spewed nothing but hate and insults.

Thank you, you may certainly add me to a list of those who hate seeing Yorkies badly treated, left alone to whelp puppies. It is a list I am more than proud to be on

[JMuedog]

Originally Posted by roncassie

How is a little dog that is a little wet and has a small amount of feces on her butt (not covered as JMuedog has said it was, but you know this because you were here) any different than a dog that is kept in an outside kennel?

My god, there are more haters than helpers on here. No wonder the world is such a dark place with all the haters! If you very first reaction is to flame and hate...you need to really look at yourself. That is not the way to be. Spreading hate and shame. I doubt there is a postive side to you at all after the things you have said.

You are completely missing the point.

Yes, you came here for help. However, the things that YOU did/didn't do are ultimately what most likely harmed your pups.

If you couldn't take the time to clean up even a small amount of feces from your dog, how can you spend the time/energy required to breed???

You want answers. YOU neglected your dogs. There is your answer.

Now please be a responsible dog owner and spay/neuter your dogs if you care for them at all.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BaxtersMommy

HAHAHAHA an ax to grind. I confirmed it? Are you crazy?

Where did I say anything he did was OK? I think it is VERY sad. I told him to go to Breeder Talk where he will be able to READ what he did wrong. You certainly aren't telling him by telling him to take a hammer to his head! What good does that do?

What I have learned from YT is that so many people are clueless when it comes to breeding. They do not educate themselves first (which takes years) and then something like this happens. So, why not be the person who points out WHY you dont put a dog in a kennel out in the garage?

Sorry you feel the need to attack me when all I said he needed to read. A good breeder would tell him what he did wrong and convince him that his is something that never needs to happen again. Have you ever thought that this might just continue? You all have a way to explain WHY this was wrong so it doesnt happen again.

You're right Dana.

Shame on me for not stepping up to the plate and taking on a responsibility to teach. I would if I could but I will hold firm that some people are not able to be educated and in my judgment and experience Ron is one of them.

[peanut]

Okay since I am a experienced breeder, I will tell you what you did wrong. You never ever leave a pregnant bitch alone for a minute when she is around 58 days until she whelps. I will not let mine go outside at all at this time. She is moving the pup around because she doesn't feel safe, when you have a bitch pregnant, you need to get them in a safe, quite area in a whelping box, they need to get used to it before they have pups. There is so much stuff you have to do before the whelping, Yorkies usually need help from their human.

As for breeding again, I agree SPAY your girl, its not fair for the pups that suffered because of your ignorance in trying to breed. I keep thinking about that poor pup laying in your garage cold, hungry and dieing.

If you wanted to breed you really should have a mentor and done your homework before you breed them.

[pawever Yorkie]

[QUOTE=roncassie;3295267]How is a little dog that is a little wet and has a small amount of feces on her butt (not covered as JMuedog has said it was, but you know this because you were here) any different than a dog that is kept in an outside kennel?

Do you even love your dog???
How can you compare your baby to some dog that's kept outside?
Why don't you go ahead and compare her to shelter dog, and say that she's being treated like a princess???

[BaxtersMommy]

Originally Posted by peanut

Okay since I am a experienced breeder, I will tell you what you did wrong. You never ever leave a pregnant bitch alone for a minute when she is around 58 days until she whelps. I will not let mine go outside at all at this time. She is moving the pup around because she doesn't feel safe, when you have a bitch pregnant, you need to get them in a safe, quite area in a whelping box, they need to get used to it before they have pups. There is so much stuff you have to do before the whelping, Yorkies usually need help from their human.

As for breeding again, I agree SPAY your girl, its not fair for the pups that suffered because of your ignorance in trying to breed. I keep thinking about that poor pup laying in your garage cold, hungry and dieing.

If you wanted to breed you really should have a mentor and done your homework before you breed them.

[roncassie]

This is great stuff here! A bunch of perfectionists and haters. A bunch of people who do not have a clue about how much we love and care for our dogs. I guess having another yorkie for 14 years (that never had any pups) does not show this..but I never mentioned this so how would you know right?

The kennel was inside the house. The dog went outside and then in the dog door to the garage (because I am uncaring...I have a door to get out of the weather). I let the dog in and then I picked her up. The amount of poop matted on her butt was maybe 1/4 in long and her wetness did not warrant a full blown bath and freak out party at 11:30 at night. All this time her behavior was not anything out of the ordinary.

We asked the vet about her trying to hide the pup and he said this was normal and nothing to worry about. I am sure you will say this vet was wrong....I am expecting that based off the responses so far....after the fact. I am very thankful to the member who thinks she was hiding the pup because of our treatment.

See a bunch of would have's and should have's is all I am seeing on here. You act like you are all perfect and have never made a mistake you have learned from. You know the phrase about the muscle to smile are far less to use than it is to frown, yet you do nothing but hate and talk so negative.

I am sure I would learn more from this place, but sticking around here and being around those that are so negative and hateful is not very appealing.

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by peanut

Okay since I am a experienced breeder, I will tell you what you did wrong. You never ever leave a pregnant bitch alone for a minute when she is around 58 days until she whelps. I will not let mine go outside at all at this time. She is moving the pup around because she doesn't feel safe, when you have a bitch pregnant, you need to get them in a safe, quite area in a whelping box, they need to get used to it before they have pups. There is so much stuff you have to do before the whelping, Yorkies usually need help from their human.

As for breeding again, I agree SPAY your girl, its not fair for the pups that suffered because of your ignorance in trying to breed. I keep thinking about that poor pup laying in your garage cold, hungry and dieing.

If you wanted to breed you really should have a mentor and done your homework before you breed them.

- the other thing is that Gracie could have died giving birth to the pups. What if she had needed a C-section? Too many things that could have gone wrong!

[Ringo1]

Your comments are being held in moderation because you are a new member. I'm sorry you lost your pups. Devastating for everyone involved.

I'm not going to pile on to what has been said here today; though I agree with most.

I do hope that you reconsider breeding your girl again. If you truly care about her, the way you say you do; you will have her spayed and you will not put her or your family through this heartache again.

IF you are keeping her in an outside kennel (I couldn't tell); please, please reconsider that as well.

USE this tragedy to learn what you are capable of and what you are not. Not everyone, nor certainly every dog, is meant to be a breeder. If you have family members that want a yorkie pup of their own, they need to search and find a reputable breeder. Wouldn't this be easier than going through this again?

[BanditSocks2]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

The questions that you are asking should have been done LONG BEFORE you posted about your breeding experience at the expense of your poor dog and the death of her puppies. If you think that this is an elitist attitude then you are entirely correct in your assumption! Your actions and lack of knowledge of breeding is inexcusable. I am hoping that your posts are just a way to rile us up on a Sunday morning and not truthful. But unfortunately I believe you to be for real is heartbreaking.

So many people on here have so much knowledge about breeding, so I imagine this to be almost a slap in the face. I can assure you nobody is trying to come off as a "perfectionist behind a keyboard" rather they are trying to share their wealth of knowledge they have, but it's falling on deaf ears. I understand you might feel bombarded and attacked, but you haven't once said you would do things differently the next time. If you were an expert on something and saw somebody doing the complete opposite and complaining about people telling him the correct way to do it, what would you think? Please take the posts for what they are... EXPERTs who have had years of experience with this.

[BaxtersMommy]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Posting in the breeder forum to gather knowledge regarding breeding should have been done long before you have dead puppies scattered around your home!

Personally I have Woogieman in the knowledgeable breeder category and agree with his post. FlDebra is a former breeder and I agree with her post as well. Even if this ourtagous thread had been posted in the Breeder Forum any reputable breeder would be taken back by the lack of care for this mother, her surviving and dead puppies. It's just shocking to me!

I wasn't suggesting to post in Breeder Talk so he could learn how to be a breeder. I was suggesting that he go there and educate himself. There is so much good there and he will read first hand what he did wrong and hopefully not allow it to happen again. Hopefully what he reads there will just confirm what you have all said here & what we all know needs to happen.....SPAY that little girl.