Of all things to decline at the vets...DON'T DECLINE THIS!

[Ellie May]

It was a friend of a vet friend...

Feed stores don't always keep things according to package directions. It is somewhat safer to get it from a supplier shipped to your vet. I get drugs online, but try to stick to name brands (and only from very trusted sites). I get heartworm meds from Ellie's vet because it is too important, imo.

Any little mistake (or perceived mistake) and cases can go legal. The more is happens, the more vet prices will go up b/c the more insurance they will need. They have to be very careful what they do and say.

And as a side note, the more people (including me) buy from online pharmacies (btw, there will likely be a major pet pharmacy opening soon), the less people will buy from their vets. So, vet prices will go up even more b/c they have to make neough money to stay open.

[Ellie May]

The first rule of vet med is do no harm. Prescribing a drug before without the proper testing would have them going against this.

I understand what you're saying, but the test is important, things do go legal (and yes, vets are constantly concerned about it), and most are going to feel a certain responsibility to do things correctly. Heartgard may not kill a HW positive dog, but the disease can still progress. The owner can sign a waiver (and some vets don't think testing is necessary at all), but vets do tend to want to know what is actually going on with their patients.

And doxy is becoming very popular before treatment to kill the wolbachia. They wouldn't know to use this without testing.

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by Lizzie07

Wow, I don't know of any vets getting sued! Sorry, this doesn't make sense. How would you ever know what killed the pet? The heartguard or the HW? Could I sue a vet if my dog died as a result of regular HW treatment? No.

Anyone can sue anyone for any perceived wrongdoing. They may not win the case, but it would cost the person being sued lawyers fees etc which can add up to a lot of money. People are so sue happy these days.

Oh,and a necropsy would help determine what killed a pet.

You may not personally know of any vets being sued, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Actually, there are some case of vets being sued in the deaths of dogs.

Here is just one of them:

Veterinary Malpractice Case Could Redefine Veterinary Care

I am sure if you searched the net you would find other cases where vets have been sued.

So, like human doctors, vets have to protect themselves.

[BanditSocks2]

I never knew continuing treating if they actually had a heartworm was so dangerous.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by BanditSocks2

I never knew continuing treating if they actually had a heartworm was so dangerous.

It can be done with ivermection (Heartgard). The others...not so much. But as for getting rid of the worms, imidicide therapy is still the preferred option most of the time.

[RachelandSadie]

As a receptionist to THREE vets, YES they are always covering their butts for a lawsuit. Constantly i hear them tell me that they will not fill a presc. because of legal reasons....you are wrong and have nothing and no research to base your rebuttle on.

and as for vaccines there are still some that are required for boarding and grooming such as distemper and rabies, bordetella and fecals...these are to protect other dogs from getting sick. we accept titers if the O. has them done so it's not pushing vaccines it's making sure the pets are healthy. most research still suggests rabies, distemper, bordetellas if around other dogs, ext. it's science and medicine NOT greed!!

and not only lawsuits from clients but i forgot to mention loosing their veterinary board license.

[Lizzie07]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

here is the problem with over the counters, 1 800 pet meds, ext for getting prevention....

you don't know where it was made (some people are getting meds made in third world countries shipped to them in full on chinese from pet meds)

you don't know how old it really is (outdated won't work as well)

and you don't know if it's been frozen or over heated (most meds. require room temp. to be effective)

if you are buying things that aren't the actual thing you thought you were buying then you aren't getting an effective drug and you have a higher risk of getting worms. it's just a fact. not all pills work the way they should and sometimes even in just one missed dose heartworms develop. and any activity at any time those worms show up could cause one of them to dislodge into a lung and kill the dog. it only takes one missed pill for heartworms to form and if a HWP is given and it kills that ONE WORM insdie the dog and it just happens to flow into the blood stream and clot, well bye bye beloved dog...HWT are very very important, they can save lives if done. does that make more sense?

So, you are saying that the ivermectin sold for livestock isn't actual ivermectin? Or is outdated, not kept at room temperatures? HUH?

For your information, after a dog is treated for HW, a worm can dislodge into a lung and kill a dog. How is that different than what you are saying above? And heartguard is being used, by vets, to treat HW, especially in pets deemed too ill to withstand the treatment.

HWP can save lives too. NOT giving it can't. At least a dog has a chance, a real chance to live if it gets preventive. HWs can and DO kill dogs.

All I am advocating, and I mean all, is that in the case of someone who won't pay for the test or can't afford it, at the very least a vet could do is try to get them to put the dog on heartguard. Do the same thing you would do if it were the treatment the dog was getting, warn the owner about the risks and what to look for.

I don't understand why I have to repeat myself. ALL I am saying is that, at the very least, giving the heartguard rather than NOTHING is better.

I DO get annual HWT on my pets. I am not advocating not doing that. I am advocating that when a person can't afford or won't pay for a HWT, just give them the heartguard. AT least then the pet has a chance. HWs will kill a pet. Period. That's for sure. Most pet owners WILL get the annual test, if recommended by their vets, just like they get the annual immunizations if their vets recommend them (and that is a whole 'nother topic).

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[LifeLovePassion]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

here is the problem with over the counters, 1 800 pet meds, ext for getting prevention....

you don't know where it was made (some people are getting meds made in third world countries shipped to them in full on chinese from pet meds)

you don't know how old it really is (outdated won't work as well)

and you don't know if it's been frozen or over heated (most meds. require room temp. to be effective)

if you are buying things that aren't the actual thing you thought you were buying then you aren't getting an effective drug and you have a higher risk of getting worms. it's just a fact. not all pills work the way they should and sometimes even in just one missed dose heartworms develop. and any activity at any time those worms show up could cause one of them to dislodge into a lung and kill the dog. it only takes one missed pill for heartworms to form and if a HWP is given and it kills that ONE WORM insdie the dog and it just happens to flow into the blood stream and clot, well bye bye beloved dog...HWT are very very important, they can save lives if done. does that make more sense?

Devil's advocate here...how do you know temp was maintained with the stuff you buy at the vet's office? It was probably UPS'd to them and in a truck subject to heat and freezing. Really just curious here.

I agree w/the being unsure of the source though...scary especially considering all the dog food recalls/issues with China in this area.

[cally930]

Ok - not to get bashed here - but...... I do not have my dogs on any heartworm medication. They do not go out at all. They are indoor dogs and not exposed to mosquitos. When I do take them out, they are usually carried in a bag. They get tested every year. What are your thoughts???

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by Lizzie07

So, you are saying that the ivermectin sold for livestock isn't actual ivermectin? Or is outdated, not kept at room temperatures? HUH?

For your information, after a dog is treated for HW, a worm can dislodge into a lung and kill a dog. How is that different than what you are saying above? And heartguard is being used, by vets, to treat HW, especially in pets deemed too ill to withstand the treatment.

HWP can save lives too. NOT giving it can't. At least a dog has a chance, a real chance to live if it gets preventive. HWs can and DO kill dogs.

All I am advocating, and I mean all, is that in the case of someone who won't pay for the test or can't afford it, at the very least a vet could do is try to get them to put the dog on heartguard. Do the same thing you would do if it were the treatment the dog was getting, warn the owner about the risks and what to look for.

I don't understand why I have to repeat myself. ALL I am saying is that, at the very least, giving the heartguard rather than NOTHING is better.

I DO get annual HWT on my pets. I am not advocating not doing that. I am advocating that when a person can't afford or won't pay for a HWT, just give them the heartguard. AT least then the pet has a chance. HWs will kill a pet. Period. That's for sure. Most pet owners WILL get the annual test, if recommended by their vets, just like they get the annual immunizations if their vets recommend them (and that is a whole 'nother topic).

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Kristan, I get where you are coming from. However, how long do you think it would take for another customer to come into a practice and say "so and so" got HW meds without having to pay for a test why can't I? Word of mouth spreads like fire. Also, the price of the test, is a drop in the bucket compared to the price of the meds. It is for mine anyways. If someone is not going to pay for the test, I highly doubt they will pay for the meds. Vets not only treat their patients, but they are not idiots when it comes to reading the "people" before them. It is easy to look at their history with the practice, the patient before him, the "person" before him, evaluate the entire visit, and make a pretty spot on informed decision about the "whole" picture. What the customer stands there and tells the vet, is not always what the picture before him says, and it is ultimately up to him to make that decision.

Really though, if you have a good, long standing, loyal relationship with your vet, there is no limit to what they will do for you. My vet gives me advice I know he doesn't just give to anybody. He also knows I will not turn on him when something goes wrong. I trust him completley, he knows my animals, how I care for my animals, and he gives me advice according to what I can handle based on my experience and history with him, not always based on medicine alone. Trust and loyalty is a two way street.


Cally: It only takes one infected mosquito bite to become infected.